Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Eliseus]

Believe it not Blizzard paying for a flight for the Nost Devs is pocket change. Not even that, Blizzard probably wipes themselves with that much. That being said, unless Nost and Mark have changed their position, it's safe to assume the meeting is about something to do with Legacy (unless they are all being offered jobs for irrelevant work, and they wanted to just point out to us how excited they are to go to a meeting where they will be offered jobs not relevant to why a lot of us are stalking things like their twitter page right now). Considering the support Nost has had for a Legacy server. It's just safe to assume this is what it is about. Now I understand to be skeptical in all walks of life, but just wow. This one is really reaching. Maybe in the end we still don't get Legacy servers, THAT is a possibility, but it is safe to assume, without a doubt, their meeting is primarily about Legacy.

[Dormie]

I'm not getting my hopes up for legacy servers yet. There hasn't been enough time for them to make a well thought out decision.

[Deleted]

They can but it would be ridiculous if anything but Vanilla happens tomorrow, IDK I just don't see it being anything else, they probably decided to do the Vanilla servers and the pristine idea was just for an extra idea for retail players.

Then I hope you are ready to have your dreams most likely crushed. Gaming communities have had bunch of people fly over for tours at their facilities and to do things or to discuss things. It's good PR for them, they get to talk about things face to face, maybe even get the Nostalrius people talk about Blizzard in social media in more positive light.

I can't seem them making such 180 over a conversation with a few fans and a former employee.

[Deleted]

I'm not getting my hopes up for legacy servers yet. There hasn't been enough time for them to make a well thought out decision.

They had the better time of over a week. They have obviously brainstormed the ideas around it considering they went for pristine servers but people disliked the idea, so they're getting Nost in probaly to discuss what the possibilities of getting what the community wants.

[Eleccybubb]

They can but it would be ridiculous if anything but Vanilla happens tomorrow, IDK I just don't see it being anything else, they probably decided to do the Vanilla servers and the pristine idea was just an extra idea for retail players.

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We'll see tomorrow what happens.

Gonna say this once and once only. PRISTINE servers can suck a gigantic turd. They are a shit idea. Levelling would still be piss easy without all the help because of quest rewards. Hell when you get to WoD and greens and blues start upgrading to blues and epics then it's gg easy.

[Shudder]

They had the better time of over a week. They have obviously brainstormed the ideas around it considering they went for pristine servers but people disliked the idea, so they're getting Nost in probaly to discuss what the possibilities of getting what the community wants.

They were already bringing nost in prior to them announcing the pristine server idea. A lot of you are going to be very disappointed tomorrow.

[Nehezbegar]

I think ppl will get their hopes crushed. As much as id like to see an official legacy servers, i guess todays announcement will talk about plans of a meeting and release of the source code they did for Nostalrius. So ye, don't get Your hopes high.

[Unholyground]

I have been playing on Rebirth, it is fun but I do say for the most part I like live more, Vanilla is needlessly difficult in some aspects due to its poor zone and class design. The lack of graveyard out side of or close to dungeons is also a poor design and is a large deterrent for some dungeons. That is just a few things, also the leveling is way too slow. I am happy if they do this for the people who want it, but you cannot expect them to use their own live devs for this that would just not happen.

[Deleted]

I think ppl will get their hopes crushed. As much as id like to see an official legacy servers, i guess todays announcement will talk about plans of a meeting and release of the source code they did for Nostalrius. So ye, don't get Your hopes high.

Why would they release the source code while in negotiations with Blizzard? They already said they wouldn't release the source code if Blizzard told them not to.

[Eapoe]

Taking everything with a grain of salt, all I will say is good luck with the announcement tomorrow for everyone hoping for Legacy to happen. I've stated multiple times I'm not against the idea and hope that if Legacy does happen there is no ill affect on retail. Just hopefully people get what they want and works out in the best for everyone.

[Uurdz]

It's all PR. They could've flown them in from Mars if the situation required it.

What point will it make? If they fail to deliver something tangible now, they'll lose more credibility.

[Deficineiron]

I'm not getting my hopes up for legacy servers yet. There hasn't been enough time for them to make a well thought out decision.

also, while the nost folks may be the 'names' you want to try to associate with any licensing project, they aren't the folks who will run the business (I assume). running a real licensing business with some sort of pay portal, customer service, accounting, etc, will involve some things I cannot imagnie blizzard allowing these guys to sort-of wing their way towards getting together.

the fact blizz is meeting with kern, imo, actually reduces the possible significance of this meeting as well. Blizz may well be just looking to get some space before finding a way to distract folks with something new again. They may well have actually seen a pushback on the bottom line in legion-presales, presale refund requests, and sub activity after the nost incident. I think money (loss of revenue) would be the only thing that would definitely get them to drop the patronizing answers and write a sympathetic 'no' post, and invite these folks etc.

It might be as simple as atvi asking what blizz wants to do to handle this pr problem, and blizz actually getting more leeway on this topic than they ever had before, just as long as they shut this issue up well before the movie starts in theaters.

I had forgotten that, atvi has a major wow film release in weeks. no wonder they want this issue shut up, it will translate into box office sales too.

[Mullet Man]

For what it's worth (and I didn't post it to this thread) I had a theory which I'll briefly go over again. Again this is purely theory and speculation. I guess we'll know more tomorrow.

Let's start with a sentence from J. Allen Brack's post that very few have really looked at closely:

And while we’ve looked into the possibility – there is not a clear legal path to protect Blizzard’s IP and grant an operating license to a pirate server.

Note the construction about clear legal paths to both protect Blizzard's IP and granting an operating license to a pirate server. This is understandable. You don't build a McDonald's, operate it for a while (even if you could) and then go to McDonald's franchise department to get a legal agreement to continue to operate. That's backwards. I'm not a copyright lawyer but granting licenses to infringing parties while the infringement is going on may open up a can of worms with respect to other infringing parties that can't be closed easily.

So that said: The infringing server is now closed. The legal case against the Nost admins is dropped and Blizzard won't pursue it. Nostalrius is done. Blizzard admires the job that they've done there and clearly doesn't want to involve themselves in doing what anyone would call a vanilla server. They are not so against it that they haven't looked into it. Blizzard invites them to Irvine to have a chat. They discuss and Blizzard lays out what they would require to grant a limited license to what obviously would not be a pirate server if they sanctioned it. Nost admins agree and the Blizzard office in Versailles will work out the final details regarding Nost admins forming a legal corporation and the rest. Everyone goes home happy. There's no infringement because legal agreements are in place and there you go. You have a new server. Blizzard asks the Nost admins to hold off a day so that they can prepare a press release.

How likely do I think this is? Not very. But there is a part of me that also believes that it makes sense, has a chance to dot the i's and cross the t's with IP protection and is a win for everyone.

I guess we'll see. Blizzard can grant licenses to whomever they wish but it's highly doubtful they would do so with a group that is currently infringing on their IP.

It's a very thin thing and has something to do with the peculiar wording of the sentence I quoted which seems to me to be very specific and product of legal minds. I'm guessing that Brack's post was looked at by legal before he made it. He could just as easily said they can't protect the IP and grant an operating license of this nature to anyone. But, he didn't. It's an interesting thought experiment though if nothing else.

EDIT: To be clear, this is my own speculation. I don't know anything more than anyone else and this shouldn't be associated with anything or anyone other than myself.

I stated some thing similar, about 1000 pages ago.

I don't disagree.
But because of this China agreement, Blizzard already has a trusted 3rd party partner in NetEase that could run vanilla servers.
And NetEase now has a presence in North America. How convenient.

Again, this is pure speculation on my part.
But I'm not short-sighted enough to assume that Blizzard isn't at least considering this option.
Or that Blizzard "MUST" run and maintain the vanilla realms themselves.
There are other options that can be pursued.. Are they pursuing them? I don't know.
I have no special insight into what happens behind Blizzard's closed doors. Neither do you.

Blizzard already licenses their IP to NetEase to run servers in China.
I know... I know... they have to because it is China.

But it does set a precedent.
Blizzard has legal teams and management folks who know the proper way to license IP to a third party.

If they want to license the IP to Nost they know how to do it.

As you state, MoanaLisa, they will require certain things from Nost before they go down this route.
Hence the statement "not a clear legal path".

I hope to hear more from both sides in the upcoming weeks.

[Bapestar]

They were already bringing nost in prior to them announcing the pristine server idea. A lot of you are going to be very disappointed tomorrow.

I'm not getting my hopes up, so you're wrong.

[Setheria]

My own 2 cents:

Vanilla was fantastic for it's time. I loved it - the need to group and work together on elite quests, dungeons and the sense of a realm community that this engendered made the game more social. Forced or not, it worked. For what it is worth, I have enjoyed every WoW expansion since then with the notable exception of WoD.

But Vanilla sucked in many ways too though, and it's easy to forget that. Class Balance is one.

Having stopped playing retail recently and played on the Vanilla servers being discussed, my own observations have been mixed. The social aspect has been the massive difference. It's simply incomparable. I also love the smaller sense of progress that you work harder to achieve. Everything from leveling up weapon skills, talent points per level and professions feeling more worthwhile. But the interface, the lack of things like AOE looting, you notice them. There are small, insignificant bugs that you also notice from time to time.

I guess I see that convenience sometimes comes at a cost. That cost is community. LFR, Auto group features, etc, they are all reasonable in and of themselves, but they stop those incidental groups which often lead to friendships, guilds forming, and so on. Likewise with player power. When I level a priest in Vanilla, I pull 2 mobs of an equal level and can just manage. In retail, my only worry is how many mobs i can put shadow word pain on so they die in 2 ticks. There's a healthy balance in there somewhere and I think it's much closer to Vanilla than current WoW.

I re-activated my account to compare the leveling and the differences are significant. For me it's not 100% Vanilla great, live 0%, or the opposite, but the unintended consequences of some features have after all, ended up eroding things that make the game both an RPG and a social interaction. We all have our wish lists and they differ from each other, and that's ok. Game design is about compromises and people shouldn't expect to get 100% of what they say they want.

I don't think Blizzard will go back to Vanilla - but I think Pristine is actually as good as we can get. It removes convenience, and this in turn (assuming sufficient interest) will restore community. The one concern I have is that Vanilla Quests actually needed you to group - Cata versions don't, so being less powerful, in and of itself, won't perhaps mean people benefit from grouping.

Whatever happens happens. It's a game, and people who do well to chill out a little. What I want from the game is not the same as everyone else, but I recognise that Blizz should be able to cater reasonably well to diverse wants. I only occasionally PvP'd, I never collected mounts assiduously. Pet battling was incidental. I raided at the highest difficulty. But I never begrudged the development and resources used on things for others. In the same way, I don't begrudge a passionate group the option of Vanilla-esque content.

[MoanaLisa]

Blizzard already licenses their IP to NetEase to run servers in China.
I know... I know... they have to because it is China.

But it does set a precedent.
Blizzard has legal teams and management folks who know the proper way to license IP to a third party.

If they want to license the IP to Nost they know how to do it.

As you state, MoanaLisa, they will require certain things from Nost before they go down this route.
Hence the statement "not a clear legal path".

I hope to hear more from both sides in the upcoming weeks.

Besides being in China I rather imagine that if Netease had been running pirate servers in China they wouldn't have gotten Blizzard's business without closing them down first and making some amends.

[Etselion]

Plot twist: They just flown them over to save the pain and time of an extradition.

[TS26]

nostalrius devs are probably gonna announce that one of them is having a baby

[anon5123]

Took a similar amount of time to clear Deadmines. Probably closer to the two hours mark though, but still a lengthy ride.

We had to be much more careful and plan our pulls, drink, eat, CC, etc. It was much less forgiving than today.

Yeah, I know what Vanilla dungeons were like. I did them on retail and on Nostalrius.

3 hours to clear Deadmines is horrifically slow. The few times I did it, we took 1.5 hours max.

[Omians]

as nice as legacy sounds and to have Windfury able to Proc off itself again i don't see it lasting. once people progress to nax how long until that burns out?
without new stuff being added a burn out would come around eventually