One million Americans vow to boycott Target over transgender bathrooms

[katmandu26]

Don't you see why this is irrelevant though? It doesn't matter if a woman can outrun 99% of men. She is not going to be able to outrun the 1% who compete at the top level.

I am not arguing that these people deserve different personal treatment but you are basically pretending that physical differences are arbitrary when they clearly aren't.

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I never said they aren't discriminated against. I said the primary reason they are killing themselves is because of an inward conflict, not a conflict that is caused by outside forces (other people).

Name one other situation in which it would matter or anyone would care that they have something else in their pants.

[Wells]

I never said they aren't discriminated against. I said the primary reason they are killing themselves is because of an inward conflict, not a conflict that is caused by outside forces (other people). I am also criticizing the legitimacy of a vague, outdated poll.

What exactly do you think is fueling this "inward conflict" if you want to discount the massive level of discrimination and prejudice?

[Deletedaccount1]

Name one other situation in which it would matter or anyone would care that they have something else in their pants.

I don't have to. If they can't compete like regular women then you can't pretend they are regular women, they are something else.

[katmandu26]

Don't you see why this is irrelevant though? It doesn't matter if a woman can outrun 99% of men. She is not going to be able to outrun the 1% who compete at the top level.

I am not arguing that these people deserve different personal treatment but you are basically pretending that physical differences are arbitrary when they clearly aren't.

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I never said they aren't discriminated against. I said the primary reason they are killing themselves is because of an inward conflict, not a conflict that is caused by outside forces (other people). I am also criticizing the legitimacy of a vague, outdated poll.

I'd argue this with another example - people who are bullied and commit suicide. You could argue that if the kids weren't bullied, they wouldn't commit suicide and therefore, the cause is external, not internal.

[Hooked]

Target is done, they are history. F target. Sorry target but you sold out and brought this on yourself. All the founders and current leaders of target should also be ostracized as well.

[katmandu26]

I don't have to. If they can't compete like regular women then you can't pretend they are regular women, they are something else.

But who says they can't compete? Do you have any statistics that show a transgender woman on estrogen and testosterone blockers is any stronger than a genetic female?

[Deletedaccount1]

What exactly do you think is fueling this "inward conflict" if you want to discount the massive level of discrimination and prejudice?

Feeling like a stranger in your own body, side effects of drugs, personal isolation due to feeling different. It could be many things. No one discriminates against pre op transgender people who hide their condition because obviously no one knows they are different. Yet these people kill themselves the most in droves, how exactly do you explain that?

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But who says they can't compete? Do you have any statistics that show a transgender woman on estrogen and testosterone blockers is any stronger than a genetic female?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_in_sports

[Wells]

No one discriminates against pre op transgender people who hide their condition because obviously no one knows they different.

More than one transgender person would find this exceedingly laughable. Also knowing that transgender people are routinely discriminated against and hated by society is enough to drive people into depression before they actually transition. You know, the whole saying in the closet thing.

Jesus christ this thread.

[Wyrt]

Target is done, they are history. F target. Sorry target but you sold out and brought this on yourself. All the founders and current leaders of target should also be ostracized as well.

Yeah, a tiny, tiny portion of the US population, who probably couldn't afford to go to Target in the first place, boycotting target is totally going to kill the company.

You're hilarious.

[Deletedaccount1]

More than one transgender person would find this exceedingly laughable.

Why is that? How and why would someone fire, rape or assault a transgender person for being transgender if they don't know they are transgender?

[kail]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_in_sports

http://www.ncaapublications.com/prod...ads/11INCL.pdf

http://www.outsports.com/2011/9/12/4...ender-athletes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallon_Fox

[tangers58]

Thank you for reminding me to shop at Target tomorrow

[Deletedaccount1]

http://www.ncaapublications.com/prod...ads/11INCL.pdf

http://www.outsports.com/2011/9/12/4...ender-athletes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallon_Fox

I'm not reading a 38 page sports journal while I argue with 5 people. The second and third links are where the issue arises from in the first place.

[katmandu26]

Feeling like a stranger in your own body, side effects of drugs, personal isolation due to feeling different. It could be many things. No one discriminates against pre op transgender people who hide their condition because obviously no one knows they are different. Yet these people kill themselves the most in droves, how exactly do you explain that?

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_in_sports

Ok, read it, not getting anything that would solidly back what you're saying and certainly no studies or real statistics, just arguments like this one:
"Those against trans individuals competing in gender specific sport say that they are given an unfair advantage over cisgender individuals due to their testosterone levels and muscle and fat distribution. Testosterone regulates many different functions in the body, including the maintenance of healthy bone and muscle mass.[6] Since males have higher levels of testosterone then they are able to gain more muscle mass compared to most females, which may benefit their athletic abilities. Most exclusion is seen in cases when the individual is a transgender woman because of testosterone. It is also argued that trans women have previous muscular development and that they will have a greater muscle to fat ratio compared to other female-assigned athletes.[1] However, the addition of testosterone blockers and additional estrogen as a method of hormonal transition plays a major role on the amount of testosterone levels present in their body. Some trans women begin intense hormone therapy, taking high doses of estrogen, and if the person opts to have gender affirming surgery, this also plays a role in the amount of testosterone levels present in the body."

So yeah, nice link, but no real statistics that prove what you're saying is true - no numbers at all, just examples of transgenders both failing and succeeding, such as:
"Kristen Worley was one of the first athletes after a 2004 IOC ruling to try to compete in the Olympics as an openly transgender post-op athlete. Unfortunately, she did not make any of the qualifying times that Canada said were required for her to be able to compete in the Olympics. She believed that she was capable of being very competitive in the Beijing Olympics of 2008 as a cyclist, but also believed that it was unfair for the IOC to force her to come out in such a public way, when all she wanted to do was be recognized for the woman that she is.[2]"

I'd say there wasn't really an advantage there.

[Wells]

Why is that? How and why would someone fire, rape or assault a transgender person for being transgender if they don't know they are transgender?

Ever been able to tell someone is gay before they say so? Do you even know any transgender people?

[Deletedaccount1]

So yeah, nice link, but no real statistics that prove what you're saying is true - no numbers at all, just examples of transgenders both failing and succeeding, such as:
"Kristen Worley was one of the first athletes after a 2004 IOC ruling to try to compete in the Olympics as an openly transgender post-op athlete. Unfortunately, she did not make any of the qualifying times that Canada said were required for her to be able to compete in the Olympics. She believed that she was capable of being very competitive in the Beijing Olympics of 2008 as a cyclist, but also believed that it was unfair for the IOC to force her to come out in such a public way, when all she wanted to do was be recognized for the woman that she is.[2]"

I'd say there wasn't really an advantage there.

There are no statistics because there is no sample size. It is obvious men are better at virtually every physical sport compared to women due to obvious physical differences that hormones and surgeries cannot change. 1 transgender person failing to succeed is another example of anecdotal evidence and is just blind to facts.

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Ever been able to tell someone is gay before they say so? Do you even know any transgender people?

I could only tell if they were flamboyant about it. How exactly do these questions relate to what I just said? Make your point or don't make a point.

[katmandu26]

There are no statistics because there is no sample size. It is obvious men are better at virtually every physical sport compared to women due to obvious physical differences that hormones and surgeries cannot change. 1 transgender person failing to succeed is another example of anecdotal evidence and is just blind to facts.

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No you wouldn't be able to tell. How exactly do these questions relate to what I just said? Make your point or don't make a point.

It's not anecdotal if it really happened, and it did.

It also doesn't change the fact that it doesn't hurt a damn thing to call a transgender woman "she".

[kail]

I'm not reading a 38 page sports journal while I argue with 5 people. The second and third links are where the issue arises from in the first place.

DR. NICK GORTON
"Transgender student-athletes fall within the spectrum of physical traits found in athletes of their transitioned gender, allowing them to compete fairly and equitably."

ERIC VILAIN M.D., Ph.D., Professor, Director of the Center for Gender-Based Biology and Chief Medical Genetics Department of Pediatrics, UCLA
“Research suggests that androgen deprivation and cross sex hormone treatment in male-to-female transsexuals reduces muscle mass; accordingly, one year of hormone therapy is an appropriate transitional time before a male-to-female student-athlete competes on a women’s team.”

TL;DR: Even the NCAA allows transgender women in women's competition. The only requirement is hormone therapy. The second and third links are the IOC and MMA allowing trans women to compete with other women as well.

[Deletedaccount1]

It's not anecdotal if it really happened, and it did.

It also doesn't change the fact that it doesn't hurt a damn thing to call a transgender woman "she".

You can't make a generalization off of 1 transgender person failing to place. I never said anything about pronouns.

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TL;DR: Even the NCAA allows transgender women in women's competition. The only requirement is hormone therapy. The second and third links are the IOC and MMA allowing trans women to compete with other women as well.

http://thefederalist.com/2016/01/27/allowing-transgender-olympians-is-unfair-to-women/

We can do this all this day dude, more organizations have banned it than allowed it.

[katmandu26]

You can't make a generalization off of 1 transgender person failing to place. I never said anything about pronouns.

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http://thefederalist.com/2016/01/27/...fair-to-women/

We can do this all this day dude, more organizations have banned it than allowed it.

It's arguable and yes, it can be argued all day. There is no definitive answer anywhere that backs up what you're saying, just conjecture and theory.

Didn't you say pretty early on that they aren't really women if they're transgender and sports was your argument? My apologies if I misunderstood.