Think Velen will show up at all?

[rda]

I am not going to reply to everything, because it will take time that I am not going to spend on this, so I will reply to just one characteristic thing:

The Alliance acted and they would have failed if it were'nt for the Horde infighting and backstabbing each other(something that did not happen during the Draenei war).It was LUCK.

If the Alliance would have failed at what they were doing, they'd have tried something else. You are pretending there's a single deciding point, while in reality these points are *created* by the acting sides who try various things. Velen is a passive dummy so he just sits there and loses all the time. The Alliance aren't (well, weren't, we have had innumerable idiocies on WoW's time from the chardev where the Alliance should act but does nothing, just like Velen) passive so they create opportunities and sometimes win / sometimes lose.

It's not luck. "Luck" belongs to the loser's vocabulary.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Velen should be a key resource against the Legion, knowing more about them than anyone else on Azeroth. It would be nice if he did more than sit in one class hall.

[rda]

Dammit, I can't resist, one more remark:

"There are worlds aplenty to conquer and devour, in service to our master Sargeras. Let the fool go. We would sense it if he used his talents on any level that would pose a threat. Let him rot on some world, bereft of everything that mattered to him." -Archimonde,Rise of the Horde.

SO WHAT?

You are making my point for me.

Archimonde says this, great for him. Velen apparently has no answer, which is exactly my point. Instead of saying something else and finding some way out, pulling some creative trick which would beat Archimonde at his own game, whatever, he works within the bounds of what Archimonde is saying. Where's "these fools think they can detect me, let's see what they do about this ancient magic which masks everything / let's see when they get tired chasing numerous fake signals which look like signals of my magic but lead nowhere / whatever else" from Velen? Nowhere. No wonder he loses.

If I were a draenei, I'd like someone like Archimonde or Kiljaeden leading me, not Velen, Velen is complete garbage.

[Rathbourne]

I am not going to reply to everything, because it will take time that I am not going to spend on this, so I will reply to just one characteristic thing:



If the Alliance would have failed at what they were doing, they'd have tried something else. You are pretending there's a single deciding point, while in reality these points are *created* by the acting sides who try various things. Velen is a passive dummy so he just sits there and loses all the time. The Alliance aren't (well, weren't, we have had innumerable idiocies on WoW's time from the chardev where the Alliance should act but does nothing, just like Velen) passive so they create opportunities and sometimes win / sometimes lose.

It's not luck. "Luck" belongs to the loser's vocabulary.

You are assuming they would have tried something else.Assumption doesnt back up anything.100 % of the Alliance' strength was losing to 70% of the Horde's strength.Even if the Alliance came up with something else the Horde would uneash the rest 30% and would still destroy the Alliance. There my assumption.

Dammit, I can't resist, one more remark:



SO WHAT?

You are making my point for me.

Archimonde says this, great for him. Velen apparently has no answer, which is exactly my point. Instead of saying something else and finding some way out, pulling some creative trick which would beat Archimonde at his own game, whatever, he works within the bounds of what Archimonde is saying. Where's "these fools think they can detect me, let's see what they do about this ancient magic which masks everything / let's see when they get tired chasing numerous fake signals which look like signals of my magic but lead nowhere / whatever else" from Velen? Nowhere. No wonder he loses.

If I were a draenei, I'd like someone like Archimonde or Kiljaeden leading me, not Velen, Velen is complete garbage.

What your saying is complete garbage. Your asking Velen to do things like make a fake signal or unleash some ancient power ?! From where ? His Buttcrack ? He is not GOD. Archimonde and Kiljaedan,they are GODS compared to Velen !! Its like asking a mouse to do something amazing against an African Lion.

Velen could not take on the Legion even in his wildest dreams.Even with the Naaru,the Legion would destroy them.He refrains from using too much of his powers to keep himself and those around him safe.

The fact that the Legion finds them is Kiljaedan's effiiency and not Velen' inefficiency.And saying that you want Archimonde and Kiljaedan as leaders in the same as saying you want terrorists as leaders.

You are just blaming him for the sake of blaming him.

[Jshadowhunter]

So this thread is full of whining, because Velen has the power to see into the future for the best outcome of all life and is prepared to make neccecery sacrifice, since seeing Legion destory countless worlds would make the orc genocide look minute?

Seems there's alot of blind hate going on on characters who can see the bigger picture.

[Eon Drache]

Why don't you all hate on Nozdormu, too? He can see the future and has let some really shit stuff happen. We haven't seen the future. We don't know if changing these events would have been worse. He has done things that have allowed Azeroth to grow. The magical font at the Sunwell is one example. It would seem like an odd move for us, but Velen knows more than us. Maybe the Sunwell needs to exist for us to win that final war.

[Rathbourne]

Its because he doesnt fight like the rest of them dumb so called badasses.Thank God,Terenus Menethil died in WC3. He wouldnt have survived the fanboy rage against leaders who actually lead rather than try to be some OP warrior or something.

[rda]

What your saying is complete garbage. Your asking Velen to do things like make a fake signal or unleash some ancient power ?! From where ? His Buttcrack ? He is not GOD. Archimonde and Kiljaedan,they are GODS compared to Velen !! Its like asking a mouse to do something amazing against an African Lion.

I said what he could do, he could reign over the orcs / talked to Nerzhul (way before it was too late) / pitched the orcs against Guldan / prevented the union of the tribes into the Horde / <a hundred other things>. If he was active, he'd no doubt have found numerous other opportunities. But he wasn't, he just sat waiting to be found and defeated.

Your answer to this is "the Legion never did what they did for the draenei, so Velen couldn't have known in advance to do all these things". FOR THE TENTH TIME, THIS IS THE ENTIRE POINT. Archimonde and Kiljaeden find ways to surprise Velen, Velen does nothing. Who had more power on Draenor when draenei arrived, Velen or the Legion? Velen. What did he use it for? He flushed it down the drain and sat in a corner waiting to be killed. Kiljaeden, who is occuppied with a million things, finds the time to create a plan to find and have fun with Velen. Velen, who has no other things to do than thwart what Kiljaeden could possibly do, does nothing. Such a leader that Velen.

[Wyrt]

Oh they would have it, but perhaps later. Like much later. Perhaps the Orcs, Ogres, Saberon, and Arrokas could have been stronger and unified. Never know. Azeroth has resisted, perhaps they could have to.

Edit: fucking spellcheck

Azeroth has only resisted because it's a titan.

[Rathbourne]

I said what he could do, he could reign over the orcs / talked to Nerzhul (way before it was too late) / pitched the orcs against Guldan / prevented the union of the tribes into the Horde / <a hundred other things>. If he was active, he'd no doubt have found numerous other opportunities. But he wasn't, he just sat waiting to be found and defeated.

Your answer to this is "the Legion never did what they did for the draenei, so Velen couldn't have known in advance to do all these things". FOR THE TENTH TIME, THIS IS THE ENTIRE POINT. Archimonde and Kiljaeden find ways to surprise Velen, Velen does nothing. Who had more power on Draenor when draenei arrived, Velen or the Legion? Velen. What did he use it for? He flushed it down the drain and sat in a corner waiting to be killed. Kiljaeden, who is occuppied with a million things, finds the time to create a plan to find and have fun with Velen. Velen, who has no other things to do than thwart what Kiljaeden could possibly do, does nothing. Such a leader that Velen.

So you asking Velen to be Garrosh ? You asking him to reign over other races on the planet to do what have them rebel against his and the Draenei.The Draenei have a sense of morality unlike other races. They are no going to be going around and enslaving races to their will. Besides the entire bases of the Draenei's power for the last 25,000 years was the Naaru,who were nowhere around at the time.Kuure was ill and was turning into a Void state.

Not to mention Draenei did do what they could the build a civilization on Draenor that could rival any other race.Archimonde and Kiljaedan finds more ways because they have more options . The single most powerful force in the known universe is at their beck and call.Their master is the most powerful being in the entire universe. They themselves are Gods in their own right.
What does Velen have ? A few survivors who have been hunted for nearly 25,000 years and has escaped by the skin of their teeths because of the aid of a single source of light, which essentially they lost when they arrived on Draenor.And yet they managed to build up a civilization. They managed to extend their reach far and build a solid fighting force.

Again no leader could have saved the Draenei at that stage unless they were a GODlike being who could one shot an army.

[Octavius]

I really really wanna know/see the true extent of Velen's powers. I mean, Kil'jaeden belives him the most powerful of them (before demonization), he could be very very strong. And still he does nothing, never

[Chantique]

I'll start saying that i'm a priest, draenei and fan of Velen, but what i'm more curious is how strong Velen really is?

Kil'jaeden believed that Velen was the strongest of them back in Argus. But that was before the power boost they got from Sargeras. We can say for sure that Kil'jaeden and Archimond became way stronger than he is now.

In the burning legion, we have Sargeras, Kil'jaeden and Archimond as the most powerful beings, but who is the next in line? Dreadlords? Pit lords?

I'm mentioning Dreadlords and Pit Lords because in the priest hall, Velen have this vision:



So apparently, Velen is afraid of Balnazzar. That raises the question: Are dreadlords really that strong that could make Velen fear for the future? I always thought that Pit Lords were stronger than Dreadlords, but now i'm not so sure.

Maybe Velen got weaker after thousands of years running or maybe he is not even that strong to begin with it. Any lore experts could elaborate more on this?

[Mukor]

Tbh i hope velen dies becomes a naruu and kills Kiljaeden.

[JustRob]

I'll start saying that i'm a priest, draenei and fan of Velen, but what i'm more curious is how strong Velen really is?

Kil'jaeden believed that Velen was the strongest of them back in Argus. But that was before the power boost they got from Sargeras. We can say for sure that Kil'jaeden and Archimond became way stronger than he is now.

In the burning legion, we have Sargeras, Kil'jaeden and Archimond as the most powerful beings, but who is the next in line? Dreadlords? Pit lords?

I'm mentioning Dreadlords and Pit Lords because in the priest hall, Velen have this vision:


So apparently, Velen is afraid of Balnazzar. That raises the question: Are dreadlords really that strong that could make Velen fear for the future? I always thought that Pit Lords were stronger than Dreadlords, but now i'm not so sure.

Maybe Velen got weaker after thousands of years running or maybe he is not even that strong to begin with it. Any lore experts could elaborate more on this?

Dreadlords are way stronger than pit lords. Dreadlords are generally commanders or high ranking officers, while pit lords are more heavy ground troops.

Tichondrius seemed to be higher ranked than Mannoroth.

[Benomatic]

He should of been killed off and replaced with Maraad as leader of the Draenei

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Dreadlords are way stronger than pit lords. Dreadlords are generally commanders or high ranking officers, while pit lords are more heavy ground troops.

Tichondrius seemed to be higher ranked than Mannoroth.

The annihilan are stronger and higher ranking than the nathrezim.

[Rathbourne]

So apparently, Velen is afraid of Balnazzar. That raises the question: Are dreadlords really that strong that could make Velen fear for the future? I always thought that Pit Lords were stronger than Dreadlords, but now i'm not so sure.

Maybe Velen got weaker after thousands of years running or maybe he is not even that strong to begin with it. Any lore experts could elaborate more on this?

The annihilan are stronger and higher ranking than the nathrezim.

I would rather have a Pitlord as my enemy than a Dreadlord. The Nathrezim are dangerous not because of destructive power,but corruptive power.

Put it this way. A Pit Lord would kill you. A Nathrezim would capture you,torture you,kill you,possess your corpse and would use it to kill your family and no one would even realise that it was a Nathrezim that was doing it.Fcking scary man.....

[JustRob]

He should of been killed off and replaced with Maraad as leader of the Draenei

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The annihilan are stronger and higher ranking than the nathrezim.

Any source?

[Raetary]

pit lords are stronger than dreadlords.
just that dreadlords are way more intelligent.
a pit lord would crush a dreadlord easily in a fair fight.




but dreadlords don't fight fair

[JustRob]

I dunno pit lords don't seem that durable seeing as how one orc with an axe can kill one.

[Rathbourne]

I dunno pit lords don't seem that durable seeing as how one orc with an axe can kill one.

Thats unfair bro.They have certain weak spots like the head,belly,underbelly....and stuff below that.....