Wow, world harder and more challenging!

[Wolfrick]

It has nothing to do with old fashioned and more to do with everything pre-max level means nothing. The second you hit max level, you start working towards end game content. Heaven forbid you're at the last patch of xpac because it's yet another grind before you can raid with your friends. Oh wait, they run Mythic. You need to go dungeons, then LFR (wait a few weeks to get enough gear), then do normals or if you're lucky get carried and get drops in heroic, and THEN do mythic.

Now, if we want to average out iLvl's so they matter A LOT less to the point of almost nothingness, then I'd be fine. Hell if you die in the world, I'd even be ok with someone looting your corpse (anyone ever play those MMO's? No? No UO?).

Though personally, I think we should do away with leveling entirely at this point. Not questing but leveling.

So what you are saying is that everything you do from level 1 to 99 is irrelevant??? its a huge part of World of Warcraft... if you only like the level 100 content. how about you just chill for a sec and get things done in less in a hurry...

Like in VANILLA, we just chilled and leveled slow and Challenging... and we loved it!!!

[ElDoorO]

So what you are saying is that everything you do from level 1 to 99 is irrelevant??? its a huge part of World of Warcraft... if you only like the level 100 content. how about you just chill for a sec and get things done in less in a hurry...

Like in VANILLA, we just chilled and leveled slow and Challenging... and we loved it!!!

Yes, that's basically what I'm saying and it's pretty difficult to deny. When was the last time you saw a new level 40 raid? A new level 66 dungeon? A new level 93 battleground?

It's effectively is irrelevant until they allow level 100's to run with others. You can deny it all you want but the majority of the player base runs on new content -- not 1-(max level minus one).

Battlegrounds are primarily max level. Dungeons are 97+, raiding is effectively max level.
I get that maybe you and a few people enjoy it, and I can respect that, but truth is most don't. You can't do fuck all with your friends or those you know until you are max level and even then -- it's only when you start the grind to be able to run with them.

[Pantalaimon]

Yes, that's basically what I'm saying and it's pretty difficult to deny. When was the last time you saw a new level 40 raid? A new level 66 dungeon? A new level 93 battleground?

It's effectively is irrelevant until they allow level 100's to run with others. You can deny it all you want but the majority of the player base runs on new content -- not 1-(max level minus one).

Battlegrounds are primarily max level. Dungeons are 97+, raiding is effectively max level.
I get that maybe you and a few people enjoy it, and I can respect that, but truth is most don't. You can't do fuck all with your friends or those you know until you are max level and even then -- it's only when you start the grind to be able to run with them.

I'd be fine with more low level dungeons for those leveling up. However, unless they also made that same dungeon available for level cap too then why spend resources on low level content when it would most likely be at the expense of non raid end game content (ie fewer level 110 5 mans). 5 mans have really been lacking number since MoP, not going to jump for joy to have some sub level 50 toon get a new dungeon without end cap also getting it. Low levels have gotten new bgs before (new bgs rarely if ever at all start only at level cap for that expansion). Blizzard has also pushed most bgs to lower levels to be experienced sooner. As for raids it would be a really dumb idea & massive waste of resources to create new raids for non level capped toons, I really have nothing else to say about such a bad idea.

[ElDoorO]

I'd be fine with more low level dungeons for those leveling up. However, unless they also made that same dungeon available for level cap too then why spend resources on low level content when it would most likely be at the expense of non raid end game content (ie fewer level 110 5 mans). 5 mans have really been lacking number since MoP, not going to jump for joy to have some sub level 50 toon get a new dungeon without end cap also getting it. Low levels have gotten new bgs before (new bgs rarely if ever at all start only at level cap for that expansion). Blizzard has also pushed most bgs to lower levels to be experienced sooner. As for raids it would be a really dumb idea & massive waste of resources to create new raids for non level capped toons, I really have nothing else to say about such a bad idea.

But that's my point. The game is about end-game. Not non-max level characters. That's where most resources get spent. Class balance is about max level and less so at every other point.

[Wolfrick]

Wait till you have to grind your face in the ground to level the artifact in addition to the rest.

HAAAAA

It is an "Artifact" you should have to grind... to make it more powerfull, it should take time to make something powerfull more powerful... even since its an Artifact you have to search around to find stuff to make it stronger.

[RoxyBlue]

Back then we had less hp and power, mobs had more hp and damage, wider agro range, and were packed in tighter in many zones. Mana was an issue you had to sit and drink after killing something, and melee had to bandage, well everyone without a heal spell had to. It was actually more like a real world in that sense, but you could never get people to play like that again they would riot.

[Osmeric]

I'm pretty sure Blizzard knows what happens when the world is challenging: most players skip it.

Stats on usage > hot air on forums.

[Sansnom]

The WORLD it self need to feel more challenging and Harder... let us feel in Danger when we move around in the world!

Let each and every mob have the possability to kill us just like in "Vanilla and BC" if you pulled more then 1, it was almost e certen death... it was so amazing since you really Feard those huge croweded bases you where suppose to go in.

What do you guys think about his? I would love you hear your Ideas

There are games that are closer to that. The Secret World for example, is harder and pulling more than could result in death. I wonder why people do not play harder games and instead try to make WoW harder.

[Wolfrick]

There are games that are closer to that. The Secret World for example, is harder and pulling more than could result in death. I wonder why people do not play harder games and instead try to make WoW harder.

It is not about "harder, but more Challenging" we do discuss this topic since we love World of Warcraft and we care so much for our beloved game, but a game which is facepalm easy, will make everything booring since there is no challenge.

[Thage]

Outside of densely packed mobs in westfall I never found the world challenging ever...

I don't know what you would go back too..

This. The lion's share of what people remember being hard in Vanilla was from dense mob packs, badly-tuned spell damage, and wonky aggro radiuses. Unless you were trying to solo-quest as a holy priest, leveling wasn't so much hard as it took a long time and for many specs, took forever to kill something. The actual mechanical challenge wasn't there.

What we have right now is a combination of low-level player power buffs to keep new players from quitting before level 10 (a big-enough problem that it sparked across-the-board mob nerfs in the Cataclysm 1-60 update), bad retuning after the item squish, and power creep at high levels due to rapidly-inflated item level gains in MoP and WoD rather than the older incremental gains from Vanilla and BC.

Do I think there could be some tougher enemies? Sure. FFXIV populates their world with elite mobs you need to learn to avoid, and most mobs you encounter have telegraphed attacks that hit like a semi doin' 60. That being said, their combat system is designed around dodging telegraphs and learning when it's safe to tank one or two in the hope of killing your target before it can finish charging the attack. WoW's combat is old; you can't do much more than numerical challenge out in the world and even that gets rapidly eclipsed by the time you hit endgame and jump on the gear treadmill. Legion's trying to address this a little by having mobs scale up, keeping them from becoming completely inconsequential like world mobs tend to be at level cap, but it's not going to take long before we overpower them through sheer numbers thanks to dungeon, PvP, and raid gear.

[Raiju]

Do I think there could be some tougher enemies? Sure. FFXIV populates their world with elite mobs you need to learn to avoid, and most mobs you encounter have telegraphed attacks that hit like a semi doin' 60. That being said, their combat system is designed around dodging telegraphs and learning when it's safe to tank one or two in the hope of killing your target before it can finish charging the attack. WoW's combat is old; you can't do much more than numerical challenge out in the world and even that gets rapidly eclipsed by the time you hit endgame and jump on the gear treadmill. Legion's trying to address this a little by having mobs scale up, keeping them from becoming completely inconsequential like world mobs tend to be at level cap, but it's not going to take long before we overpower them through sheer numbers thanks to dungeon, PvP, and raid gear.

Wild star did this and it's questing experience was considered completely dull - after 30 minutes I guess it just becomes the new normal.

[Thage]

Wild star did this and it's questing experience was considered completely dull - after 30 minutes I guess it just becomes the new normal.

A lot of MMOs released recently run on dodge-based action combat after it was lauded as one of TERA's best features. I cited FFXIV in particular because it struck a middle ground between WoW's tab-target turret combat and 'stay on the move' combat.

[Wolfrick]

There are games that are closer to that. The Secret World for example, is harder and pulling more than could result in death. I wonder why people do not play harder games and instead try to make WoW harder.

Mate, its Because we love World of Warcraft and we want its best, if the outdoor is harder and more challenging, you will search for help and in this way make new friends, whith one day you will do Dungeons with ^^