Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Murictavis]

So we live in world where people go watch essports tournaments where play hardcore mobas and classic wow is a niche?

sry but this dont make sense

The onyl thing thats is a niche at the moment is wows current modell which dont stop bleeding subscribers since the mentality shift mid wrath

People like to watch doesn't mean people will play hardcore.
league is easier than dota2, but they have a much larger player base.
there are half million people watch LOL/CS go event on twitch, do you see that many people compete in the hardcore e-sports scene?

[Gadzooks]

Let's not pretend to know what I do in the real world. Also, there was exact quotes from the law in Europe that anyone can look up. Can we stop being petty now and being an ad hominen and possibly keep discussing what you are failing to discuss?

You're not a lawyer, and that post was not made by a lawyer. But here you are citing it, like it's black letter law.

[peterpan007]

That facebook page really tells it all. Another temper tantrum by entitled children. What a community by the way, ready to turn on anyone who does not give it to them.

Welcome to the internet

[Deleted]

Let's not pretend to know what I do in the real world. Also, there was exact quotes from the law in Europe that anyone can look up. Can we stop being petty now and being an ad hominen and possibly keep discussing what you are failing to discuss?

It is no ad hominem to say you are no lawyer. Otherwise, show me your license.

[Eliseus]

It is no ad hominem to say you are no lawyer. Otherwise, show me your license.

No, it is ad hominem because you are using that as the basis of your argument than what we were discussing. Also, you don't have to be a lawyer to know the law.

[Traveler Voltin]

Again. A splitted community.

Thanks, Mr. Kern.

we are already divided enough and the community is bad.
at this rate WoW's community will be worse than LoL's. i have seen LoL's community first hand its really bad.

[Wolfheart9]

But we were told how great these people are, in fact better then any of the people who dared enjoy any expansion after vanilla, and don't even get started if someone dared have fun in WoD.

I believe the current fad is if you enjoy current WoW, you are a.. was it 'Facebook game loving tard' or 'Blizzard ***licking drone'? Been seeing both pretty frequently.

Though to be fair if we want discussions to stay sane, lets not throw insults to either side so an actual topic can happen rather than 'My little red wagon is better than your little red wagon'

we are already divided enough and the community is bad.
at this rate WoW's community will be worse than LoL's. i have seen LoL's community first hand its really bad.

*shudders*

[Deleted]

No, it is ad hominem because you are using that as the basis of your argument than what we were discussing. Also, you don't have to be a lawyer to know the law.

But you have to be a lawyer to interpret it correctly. And neither you nor me are able to do that.

So lets talk about what we know. We know Nostralgius violated copyright. No matter, if its a crime or not, they created damage for blizzard based on the idea of a loss of possible subs. Add to that the fact the community got hyped against blizzard negatively by both Nostralgius and Kern.

[Eliseus]

I believe the current fad is if you enjoy current WoW, you are a.. was it 'Facebook game loving tard' or 'Blizzard ***licking drone'? Been seeing both pretty frequently.

Though to be fair if we want discussions to stay sane, lets not throw insults to either side so an actual topic can happen rather than 'My little red wagon is better than your little red wagon'

This existed even during classic though. I would pay no attention to them.

[Eliseus]

But you have to be a lawyer to interpret it correctly. And neither you nor me are able to do that.

So lets talk about what we know. We know Nostralgius violated copyright. No matter, if its a crime or not, they created damage for blizzard based on the idea of a loss of possible subs. Add to that the fact the community got hyped against blizzard negatively by both Nostralgius and Kern.

Just to clarify how things work in the EU, as I see many need some enlightenment on the subject.

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens...n/index_en.htm

Wherever you buy a product or service in the EU the trader must provide you with clear, correct and understandable information about the product or service before you make the purchase.

This contract information should include:

the main product characteristics
the total price inclusive of taxes and all charges
delivery costs , (if applicable) - and any other additional charges
arrangements for payment, delivery or performance
the trader's identity, geographical address and telephone number
the duration of the contract (if applicable)

...

Specific information requirements apply when you buy digital content online, e.g. when downloading or streaming music or video. Before you make the purchase, you must also be informed how the content operates with relevant hardware/software (interoperability) and about its functionalities, including whether any geographical restrictions apply to the use of the content and if private copies are allowed.
.-


Now to clarify:
The CD case you bought, is a product that cannot be altered, had a specific function being a client with graphics, interface, maps for the game to connect to a service. That sold "good" had terms of use that you click "accept", which is illegal in the EU if the terms change in time for the sold product as-is: http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens...s/index_en.htm)

However notice that I mentioned the purchase of the client. Not the service. The service, which of course is the server that provides the functionality of the game is a different product you pay on different terms by a subscription or other means, which makes it a different good sold altogether. You pay for the client but you pay a different amount to use the service.

There is absolutely no regulation that forbids you to use the client to any other service. The binary file you downloaded or the physical copy (CD/DVD) you purchased, you can use it any way you seem fit. You can also research it, data mine it, reverse engineer or even alter it if you wish.
There is no law that says that this is illegal. In fact these methods are supposed to be common industry competition practices. A patent that has even one tiny detail more, even one line of code that changes the functionality of the previous patent, it is considered a valid new patent, an improvement.

What happens is that when the terms of use that were "accepted", are not met, which can bring on specific consequences stated by the seller (in this case ban from service).

As for copyright law. It is a grey area but in this case is even more obscure simply because the product as it was does not exist anymore. It is dubious what violates any copyright for this case. No copies of the client are been pirated, you use the CD you bought. The server itself is entirely new code, not owned by blizzard. And no violation for art because you actually bought the game so you are entitled to enjoy its content. Even the duration in a form of license does not apply here, because Vanilla WoW client was not sold on a "you can use it for 1-year" basis. And even if it was, it is illegal to terminate a use of digital product by time limits. You can only discontinue support.

By my experience in the field, the matter is much more complicated. That is why in a previous post here, I said that the solution is simple:
Take it to court. I am sure that many young lawyers or new founded law firms would be interested in this case just for the publicity.
Many cases that they were thought "illegal" they were proved otherwise when taken to justice.
I know it when I see it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it

You literally posted right after this post and ignored it.

[Wolfheart9]

Its really satire to see him talking about divided community on this topic but then promotes stuff like LFR and Solo content lol

Solo content lets me still play the game on some level when my friends and main community are not around due to not working a traditional 9-5. LFR lets my older or medically troubled friends still see the content without having to be sat, as there's no 'getting better' over drugs you have to take in order to survive that harms your focus. It lets my community stay together despite occasionally doing other options rather than railroading everyone to one point.

Having groups of the community insult others and say they're trash is, in fact, a real split.

[Sabever]

What I find most telling in the whole debate is how many people out there don't want Vanilla to happen. These people keep making bogus claims and making up bogus facts. These same people keep bringing up the 150k number and the 850k number without taking into account that 1) many people willing to play wow would not play on an illegal server, or 2) didn't even know how to get into Nost or even know about its existance.

The problem is that the people who don't want Nost don't really have a say so. They act like they do, but it all comes down to Blizzard making the decision that makes them the most money. Over the life of WoW it is estimated that million people have played. How many still play? Less than three million?

The argument against Nost is either because 1) the player base feels like a lot of people would leave the current game or 2) they are sick of people telling them how Vanilla was harder or better.

Lets explore argument number 2. If this is your reason for hating Vanilla get over it. This is such a silly reason to not want a Vanilla server. I played Vanilla. I play now. My opinion is that Vanilla was much harder but who cares? It is just an opinion.

But the real issue is number 1. Would WoW lose its player base to Vanilla? I honestly don't know. If it really did you would realize that Vanilla was a legitimately better game. But I would argue that if you paid a monthly subscription and had access to current WoW and Vanilla it would actually increase the player base. People who love vanilla would be interested in experiencing the current version of the game as well.

Some other arguments I want to address here. Some people claim there is not enough demand for Vanilla. If there was not enough demand, these private servers would not exist. Yes they don't have to pay. They have to download a client that could damage their current game, that they have to modify a config file and they spend years of their life playing for no real gain.

But the most laughable argument I have seen so far is that players would get bored with no new content. Whoever makes such an argument does not realize what made Vanilla so great. The raids were not the content. The world was the content. People played in the world, fought each other. Wars became personal. People knew certain other players on the servers. The community thrived. Almost no one saw AQ or Naxx on Vanilla yet it remains a fan favorite. Yes, this time we would be able to see Kel Thuzad and all of Naxx, but the world is what makes World of Warcraft. It is the same reason the game currently is failing. They have taken people out of the world.

When I played Vanilla I was in college. Now I am an adult with a family. Can I spend all day playing WoW like I did back then? No. It would take me forever to level. But I am so excited to do it. Please bring back Vanilla. It will bring so many people back to the game.

[Traveler Voltin]

Its really satire to see him talking about divided community on this topic but then promotes stuff like LFR and Solo content lol

unlike you i see the need for LFR.

- - - Updated - - -

*shudders*

lol. yeah they are pretty bad.

[Eliseus]

Yes, I have heard that apparently Blizz could hold the game going as low as a 200k pop before. Fair enough, Nost has been rebuilding it all back up since Blizz lost (Or say they lost) the old builds, meaning they have hardware that also works with the code. so if Nost were to be able to host servers on behalf of Blizz, maybe it could work out.

Now I guess we'll see what happens. I myself am not really interested in playing a Vanilla server, but ive been watching alot of stuff going around it since the whole Nost thing started.

I really don't know the population size they would need to justify it. Was just using as an example, and from what I've google and found different server costs to be (all while ignoring that Blizzard probably gets it even cheaper). I really can't say for certainty, just for the sake of keeping the discussion going.

[Wolfheart9]

What I find most telling in the whole debate is how many people out there don't want Vanilla to happen. These people keep making bogus claims and making up bogus facts. These same people keep bringing up the 150k number and the 850k number without taking into account that 1) many people willing to play wow would not play on an illegal server, or 2) didn't even know how to get into Nost or even know about its existance.

The problem is that the people who don't want Nost don't really have a say so. They act like they do, but it all comes down to Blizzard making the decision that makes them the most money. Over the life of WoW it is estimated that million people have played. How many still play? Less than three million?

The argument against Nost is either because 1) the player base feels like a lot of people would leave the current game or 2) they are sick of people telling them how Vanilla was harder or better.

Lets explore argument number 2. If this is your reason for hating Vanilla get over it. This is such a silly reason to not want a Vanilla server. I played Vanilla. I play now. My opinion is that Vanilla was much harder but who cares? It is just an opinion.

But the real issue is number 1. Would WoW lose its player base to Vanilla? I honestly don't know. If it really did you would realize that Vanilla was a legitimately better game. But I would argue that if you paid a monthly subscription and had access to current WoW and Vanilla it would actually increase the player base. People who love vanilla would be interested in experiencing the current version of the game as well.

Some other arguments I want to address here. Some people claim there is not enough demand for Vanilla. If there was not enough demand, these private servers would not exist. Yes they don't have to pay. They have to download a client that could damage their current game, that they have to modify a config file and they spend years of their life playing for no real gain.

But the most laughable argument I have seen so far is that players would get bored with no new content. Whoever makes such an argument does not realize what made Vanilla so great. The raids were not the content. The world was the content. People played in the world, fought each other. Wars became personal. People knew certain other players on the servers. The community thrived. Almost no one saw AQ or Naxx on Vanilla yet it remains a fan favorite. Yes, this time we would be able to see Kel Thuzad and all of Naxx, but the world is what makes World of Warcraft. It is the same reason the game currently is failing. They have taken people out of the world.

When I played Vanilla I was in college. Now I am an adult with a family. Can I spend all day playing WoW like I did back then? No. It would take me forever to level. But I am so excited to do it. Please bring back Vanilla. It will bring so many people back to the game.

Pointing this out..

These people keep making bogus claims and making up bogus facts. These same people keep bringing up the 150k number and the 850k number without taking into account that 1) many people willing to play wow would not play on an illegal server, or 2) didn't even know how to get into Nost or even know about its existance.

Over the life of WoW it is estimated that million people have played. How many still play? Less than three million?


Try not to call people out for making claims they don't have proof on, by making claims you have no proof on. Not saying you're wrong, but you don't work for Blizz.. you don't know.

I can safely ASSUME that the bulk of the vanilla hate comes from people just being tired of hearing the vanilla crowd spout true nonsense of 'OMG it was so hard' and 'PVP was so gud', which, as a Vanilla player, is laughably, laughably wrong. Do you want that experience again? Cool, sure, awesome! Don't call me a 'Facebook game loving scrub' for enjoying what WoW is now and we'll get along just fine.

oh their is a need of lfr sure.

There is also a need of me to get the blazing drake mount when i press a button when i ever please.

However a life support system for players which are not able to socialize and can not put three hours in a week to a game, or the necessairy skill because they got to old(real talk here, blizzard literary said why lfr even exist now in the game after the loot is gimped in wod and for legion) may fullfill needs but its only harmfull for the overallgame

And then you have this, the crowd that believes older or unhealthy players should not be allowed to enjoy that aspect of the game in their own right, which does absolutely 0 harm to their own play.

[Deleted]

You literally posted right after this post and ignored it.

So you pull a text out of nowhere without any source and even the question in which favor the text was written?

Is that actually your argument?

Once again. Lets stop talking about law, as neither you nor i know enough about it.

[Gadzooks]

Source: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...9#post40099949

I friggen called it.

On a side note, though, it's absolutely awesome what they did. Maybe Blizzard will be able to have a similar tool; to be honest, it'd be incredible to be able to replay some sequences of the game.

It would definitely be a big tool for guilds learning strategies - download the replay of a world first team, watch how they do it. Definitely it would be a boon to Arena players. But it's a massive undertaking, recording all of that data for all of their live servers, the scale here is enormous, even if they just allow you to replay PvP/Arena or raids. If they can pull it off - and make it so replays can be shared, that's a pretty big feature.

[Traveler Voltin]

oh their is a need of lfr sure.

There is also a need of me to get the blazing drake mount when i press a button when i ever please.

However a life support system for players which are not able to socialize and can not put three hours in a week to a game, or the necessairy skill because they got to old(real talk here, blizzard literary said why lfr even exist now in the game after the loot is gimped in wod and for legion) may fullfill needs but its only harmfull for the overallgame

cry more. just keep crying.

LFR only brought the raider vs non-raider issue to light.
same with LFD.

[Eliseus]

So you pull a text out of nowhere without any source and even the question in which favor the text was written?

Is that actually your argument?

Once again. Lets stop talking about law, as neither you nor i know enough about it.

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/index_en.htm

is clearly not out of no where. That is an actual website you can go to.

[Deleted]

is clearly not out of no where. That is an actual website you can go to.

Yeah, and that website just says what european products need as information..

You quote some text out of context and act as if it was in favor of your theories, while there is no connection.

What will you quote next? The german law for Glühbirnengröße?