Is there a point to playing this game at all without spending money?

[Thrif]

As for your "RNG has been the from there from the start", you miss the entire point. HS will live or die based on its success as an E-Sport, and it has become a joke to many in that community. Actual skill is minimized too much in tournament settings. I tend to think more about the long term success of the game than you do apparently.

Um, it really won't. HS has a lot of things going for it, for example a huge playerbase in which most doesn't care for tournaments at all. RNG is an inherent part of card games and has always been, and Blizzard has never intended on making HS competitive.

I've really no idea where you get your "will live or die based on its success as an e-sport" from, but it's definitely not grounded in reality.

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If you think that Blizzard did not intend for HS to be an Esport, you are deluded. Blizzard did not buy out MLG for $46 million to promote a "casual" game. They intended for it to be big as an ESport. The Esport aspect of HS is what has driven its success thus far, and will determine whether or not it thrives or dies.

They've stated multiple time that they never intended for it to be an E-sport. It's also clearly visible in their design philosophies.

You're the only one deluded here.

[deadman1]

If you think that Blizzard did not intend for HS to be an Esport, you are deluded.

Even if that's true, (which it isn't)

Intent =/= end result

I intended to have a civil conversation with you, but we can see that you aren't going to allow that.

Blizzard did not buy out MLG for $46 million to promote a "casual" game. They intended for it to be big as an ESport.

You said it's RNG based and pros don't take it seriosly, now you are saying "it's so serious" make up your damn mind.

The Esport aspect of HS is what has driven its success thus far, and will determine whether or not it thrives or dies.

For you maybe, the majority of players don't even know a single pros name, most of the people I play with only know kripp, and he isn't even a pro.

You need to learn how to accept that other people exist in this world and that your opinions and thoughts aren't the only ones to exist.

The Esport aspect of HS is what has driven its success thus far, and will determine whether or not it thrives or dies.

PS - Prove it.

[Omnoms]

There is no trading in HS.

Trading is the act of swapping one minion for another, or more.
Simple level is just having a board where say... There's a 2/1 on the enemy team, you have a 1/2 and a 2/3 on the board, then using the 2/3 to take out the 2/1
( I'm being deliberately simple about my example, and sure it may be a daft example, but I just finished a game where someone used his 5/2 minion to trade out my 3/2 Grim Patron when I had a 3/3 patron right next to him. Poor trade)

[hulkgor]

I thought so, until Whispers of the Old Gods or whatever its called got released.

I spent years accumulating gold and dust to buy some decks or craft some legendaries, that got scrapped on the main game mode with this expansion.

That is a fucking joke. It really takes a long time for a 'casual' player to accumulate enough dusts to craft a Dr Boom or something else to have it 'deleted' from the usable cards, only to force you to buy packs of the newest expansion to try and keep up, turning the previous ones obsolete\unusable.

Fuck that, turned me completely off the game.

[Gorgodeus]

Trading is the act of swapping one minion for another, or more.
Simple level is just having a board where say... There's a 2/1 on the enemy team, you have a 1/2 and a 2/3 on the board, then using the 2/3 to take out the 2/1
( I'm being deliberately simple about my example, and sure it may be a daft example, but I just finished a game where someone used his 5/2 minion to trade out my 3/2 Grim Patron when I had a 3/3 patron right next to him. Poor trade)

Ah. I thought you meant trading as in trading cards with another player in regards to card collections.

[Omnoms]

Ah. I thought you meant trading as in trading cards with another player in regards to card collections.

Nah, while I do enjoy the thought, it would also be heavily abused by goldspammers that would auto-bot the 3 wins for 10g and then sell them off at cheap rates.

Or they'd get chinese prisoners to do it >.>

[Gorgodeus]

Um, it really won't. HS has a lot of things going for it, for example a huge playerbase in which most doesn't care for tournaments at all. RNG is an inherent part of card games and has always been, and Blizzard has never intended on making HS competitive.

I've really no idea where you get your "will live or die based on its success as an e-sport" from, but it's definitely not grounded in reality.

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They've stated multiple time that they never intended for it to be an E-sport. It's also clearly visible in their design philosophies.

You're the only one deluded here.

Every game Blizzard has released the last few years has been intended for ESports: HS, HotS, and OW. What they say and what is true is not always the same thing. You know and I know it. They bought MLG because it was, at the time, the most popular HS Esports website.

If most of the top streamers, tournament players, youtubers etc should switch to another ccg, you can bet you will see HS go downhill rapidly. They are what built HS seeing as they built it into an ESport before the game was even out of Beta. A substantial portion of casual players will gravitate towards what game these people are playing and promoting. One can also look to HotS' dismal performance as proof. It did not get popular with these type players, and thus is not doing very well.

[deadman1]

Every game Blizzard has released the last few years has been intended for ESports: HS, HotS, and OW. What they say and what is true is not always the same thing. You know and I know it. They bought MLG because it was, at the time, the most popular HS Esports website.

Occams razor, you can't just state baseless conspiracy theorys and expect people to agree with them.

If most of the top streamers, tournament players, youtubers etc should switch to another ccg, you can bet you will see HS go downhill rapidly. They are what built HS seeing as they built it into an ESport before the game was even out of Beta. A substantial portion of casual players will gravitate towards what game these people are playing and promoting. One can also look to HotS' dismal performance as proof. It did not get popular with these type players, and thus is not doing very well.

Prove it ...

Most people don't know the pros, it's a casual game at heart. Burden of proof is on you.

[Gorgodeus]

Most people don't know the pros, it's a casual game at heart. Burden of proof is on you.

Lmao. Where do you think the vast majority of even semi-serious players get their deck lists from? Streams, twitchtv, youtube, or websites that publish these top players decklists.

[deadman1]

Lmao. Where do you think the vast majority of even semi-serious players get their deck lists from? Streams, twitchtv, youtube, or websites that publish these top players decklists.

Hearhtpwn/tempostorm etc They don't know who writes the decks. What do you think people are like "this deck is tier 1, better look up a biography for reynad" lol

I netdeck, that doesn't mean I know who makes the decks ... lol

Try again.

[Niteowl]

Arena is probably the way to go. Everyone starts at the same level regardless of how much money you spent in constructed. Only thing is there is no 2 card limit.. So it's possible to play against some pretty dumb decks.

[Omnoms]

I netdeck, that doesn't mean I know who makes the decks ... lol

Try again.

You're throwing Ockham's razor at this guy, then literally use a subjective example.

Discussing 101.
Businesses benefit from lots of exposure, Esports generate exactly that. It's not a stretch of the imagination that large bits of activity for HS are generated by these pillars of the community.

Just because you don't read who does the deck, doesn't mean it's the average.

But hey, who the heck knows.

[Aleksej89]

Trading card games are partially pay2win by their nature, since spending money increases your chances of swiftly getting the best cards.

[deadman1]

You're throwing Ockham's razor at this guy, then literally use a subjective example

Those have nothing to do with eachother. They were on different topics. Hes claiming something that was never publicly stated is true and that he knows blizzards secret intents.

Discussing 101.
Businesses benefit from lots of exposure, Esports generate exactly that. It's not a stretch of the imagination that large bits of activity for HS are generated by these pillars of the community.

Just because you don't read who does the deck, doesn't mean it's the average.

But hey, who the heck knows.

I already said they definitely had a part, he claimed that

The Esport aspect of HS is what has driven its success thus far, and will determine whether or not it thrives or dies.

I would say I'm an above average player who plays more than the average player .. so you're right it isn't average.

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Also can we talk about how fast this went from

The Esport aspect of HS is what has driven its success thus far, and will determine whether or not it thrives or dies.

To

To Where do you think the vast majority of even semi-serious players get their deck lists from?

At first it was "this game will die if pros stop playing" and now it's "some people net deck." lol

[Thrif]

Every game Blizzard has released the last few years has been intended for ESports: HS, HotS, and OW. What they say and what is true is not always the same thing. You know and I know it. They bought MLG because it was, at the time, the most popular HS Esports website.

It's both what they say and do. Hearthstone has been ridiculed for it's high amount of RNG and how bad it is for making it an E-sport. They could easily have designed the game in a more competitive way, starting whenever they decided to, and yet the latest expansion is based on the RNG Gods themselves, with Yogg being the most ridiculous non-competitive fun card to date.

This game clearly thrives on being fun for everyone, not just interesting for the ones caring about the competitive scene, which is a vastly small amount in comparison to its playerbase.

If most of the top streamers, tournament players, youtubers etc should switch to another ccg, you can bet you will see HS go downhill rapidly. They are what built HS seeing as they built it into an ESport before the game was even out of Beta. A substantial portion of casual players will gravitate towards what game these people are playing and promoting.

Streamers and youtubers are definitely a big part of the success, I'm not denying that. But they're not necessarily part of the competitive scene. In fact, the entertaining streamers such as Kripp, Forsen, Reckful and Reynad are often gathering tons of more viewers than the competitive ones, and they are rarely to never in tournaments, but rather just... entertainers. Because HS is a great game for entertainment due to it's RNG, the slow pace which benefits viewer interaction, and the accessibility.

Now compare that to the competitive streamers. Firebat, for example. He isn't anywhere near any of the forementioned in viewers. Neither is StrifeCro or Lifecoach or any other streamer that focuses on playing competitively. Kolento might be the one exception to the rule, but entertainment streamers are hugely more popular than competitive ones in general.

So fine, if you argue that all streamers are part of the E-sports scene somehow, even the ones purely entertaining, then yes, I would agree with you. Without all the streamers and youtubers, the game would be marginally less successful. It would probably survive, but not be the big hit it is today.

HS could stop being an E-sport any day though, and nobody would really care. There's enough Forsen gachigasm, Kripp toptecking THOSE EXACT TWO CARDS, Reynad PJSalt and Lea ***slips to keep the community going for a long while.

One can also look to HotS' dismal performance as proof. It did not get popular with these type players, and thus is not doing very well.

HotS dug it's own grave by trying to enter the fiercest competitive genre ever, and doing so while presenting itself as a vastly dumbed down variant of it. There was never any hope for it really, I don't think it's a fair comparison to make.

[Fabled]

I got to legendary with a decent aggro pally deck I quickly made with a bunch of dust I had from DEing freebie cards I got. Isn't hard, but it takes some work as a f2p player.

[Runstarr]

1-2 months? Maybe if you play arena like a full time job.

It's a lot harder than people think to just "go infinite" in arena. People toss it around like it's just this easy thing that you can go do at will, but even professional players have pretty bad dry spells. You have to average at least 7-3 per run to reliably get enough gold to start your next run, and that's not nearly as easy as people make it sound.

It is hard but not impossible, it's also the only chance if you won't pay, it's never easy is it?

[Gorgodeus]

It's both what they say and do. Hearthstone has been ridiculed for it's high amount of RNG and how bad it is for making it an E-sport. They could easily have designed the game in a more competitive way, starting whenever they decided to, and yet the latest expansion is based on the RNG Gods themselves, with Yogg being the most ridiculous non-competitive fun card to date.

This game clearly thrives on being fun for everyone, not just interesting for the ones caring about the competitive scene, which is a vastly small amount in comparison to its playerbase.



Streamers and youtubers are definitely a big part of the success, I'm not denying that. But they're not necessarily part of the competitive scene. In fact, the entertaining streamers such as Kripp, Forsen, Reckful and Reynad are often gathering tons of more viewers than the competitive ones, and they are rarely to never in tournaments, but rather just... entertainers. Because HS is a great game for entertainment due to it's RNG, the slow pace which benefits viewer interaction, and the accessibility.

Now compare that to the competitive streamers. Firebat, for example. He isn't anywhere near any of the forementioned in viewers. Neither is StrifeCro or Lifecoach or any other streamer that focuses on playing competitively. Kolento might be the one exception to the rule, but entertainment streamers are hugely more popular than competitive ones in general.

So fine, if you argue that all streamers are part of the E-sports scene somehow, even the ones purely entertaining, then yes, I would agree with you. Without all the streamers and youtubers, the game would be marginally less successful. It would probably survive, but not be the big hit it is today.

HS could stop being an E-sport any day though, and nobody would really care. There's enough Forsen gachigasm, Kripp toptecking THOSE EXACT TWO CARDS, Reynad PJSalt and Lea ***slips to keep the community going for a long while.



HotS dug it's own grave by trying to enter the fiercest competitive genre ever, and doing so while presenting itself as a vastly dumbed down variant of it. There was never any hope for it really, I don't think it's a fair comparison to make.

Actually all those you listed are in nearly every competitive, top tournament. lol Except for Lea.

[Thrif]

Actually all those you listed are in nearly every competitive, top tournament. lol Except for Lea.

Really? Care to tell me what the latest tournament Kripp participated in was?

[Pantalaimon]

SLIGHT advantage my ass. while it is not insurmountable it takes an absurd about of time to be able to catch up to that advantage. and again, if you want to be competitive you would have to decimate your collection to DE just to put together a single deck

I'd put it this way. If you spend a measly 30-60 mins a day to simply do your quests each day then yes those players will have more of an advantage? Why shouldn't they? I know this is a casual friendly game, but do you really think that those who don't always do their quests should be close in their deck building/card collection when compared to those players that do complete them?

Now if you're saying that those who invest money into the game actually getting a large advantage over those players that don't spend money I would argue that isn't always true. Money or not packs will always be full of rng (even with garunteed rares & bad luck protection with legendaries). Simply look at the number of posters in the WotOG pack thread and there will be players who opened 50+ packs & got only 1-2 legendaries (some or all of which are pretty bad compared to what they could have pulled from those packs). Of course, you will see posters who got a ton of good legendaries, but it still doesn't get rid of the fact that there are still players who payed for those 50 preorder packs that still didn't get the 'good' cards they were wanting. For those players who got crap luck with packs bought with real money they still only have a slight advantage over those players that didn't use real money.