1. #2161
    Quote Originally Posted by shyguybman View Post
    Saw this on the bnet forums, I'm sure it will have no effect LOL but
    http://www.strawpoll.me/10105720
    I'd say 50-74%. It definitely isn't a bad spec, the core is actually really solid, it just suffers from minor issues.

    This seems to be a reoccuring theme for a lot of specs in Legion though, and I'm fairly certain it's indicative of design in general. It isn't as though the developers hate Warriors or Rogues or any other class, they are simply focused on making the specs "good enough", rather than completely polished. Anyone who has ever been involved in any kind of time-sensitive project knows that you can't tweak forever, even if you want to. Eventually you have to call it done and move on, lest you run out of time for future considerations.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    This is true.

    Instead we're now magical sci-fi vikings who dislike being around our own people and our favorite color is gold. But only if its glowing.
    I honestly wouldn't mind the Vrykul theme if they used it in conjunction with player race Warriors and it wasn't also a dungeon.

    No matter how you look at it, letting other classes experience the area only detracts from it's unique nature. Allowing them, and even worse letting us beat up the "heroes" of our class hall, and gain Odyn's blessing, only further undermines our relationship with them.

  2. #2162
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    I'd say 50-74%. It definitely isn't a bad spec, the core is actually really solid, it just suffers from minor issues.

    This seems to be a reoccuring theme for a lot of specs in Legion though, and I'm fairly certain it's indicative of design in general. It isn't as though the developers hate Warriors or Rogues or any other class, they are simply focused on making the specs "good enough", rather than completely polished. Anyone who has ever been involved in any kind of time-sensitive project knows that you can't tweak forever, even if you want to. Eventually you have to call it done and move on, lest you run out of time for future considerations.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I honestly wouldn't mind the Vrykul theme if they used it in conjunction with player race Warriors and it wasn't also a dungeon.

    No matter how you look at it, letting other classes experience the area only detracts from it's unique nature. Allowing them, and even worse letting us beat up the "heroes" of our class hall, and gain Odyn's blessing, only further undermines our relationship with them.
    Dont forget his initial goal of bringing you to him is also done by all others. And we're treated the same as everyone else throughout the zone and dungeon.
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  3. #2163
    Quote Originally Posted by nativity View Post
    I always thought the warrior class hall should be right in the middle of the battlefield.. well, warriors always love to fight and enjoy the heat of the battle right ?
    It's like everyone who complains about the class hall has no clue about Valhalla. Blizzard's concept is solid but the execution is poor.

  4. #2164
    Quote Originally Posted by bassfu View Post
    It's like everyone who complains about the class hall has no clue about Valhalla. Blizzard's concept is solid but the execution is poor.
    How is the concept solid?

    We're going to a flying sky castle with a bunch of people we are not at all related and who used to be enemies. We are one of the classes furthest from the battlefield because of this place. Infact, we're likely in the safest place in the whole of azeorth. We are one of few classes who are not the actual leader of our Order. Many of the honored dead of this place are magical light golems made by a guy who killed and soul raped his adopted daughter. And there is light/magic everywhere.


    The problem is and always will be that this place does not fit warriors AT ALL, barely fits WoW, and no steps are being taken to remedy either.
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  5. #2165
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    I'd say 50-74%. It definitely isn't a bad spec, the core is actually really solid, it just suffers from minor issues.

    This seems to be a reoccuring theme for a lot of specs in Legion though, and I'm fairly certain it's indicative of design in general. It isn't as though the developers hate Warriors or Rogues or any other class, they are simply focused on making the specs "good enough", rather than completely polished. Anyone who has ever been involved in any kind of time-sensitive project knows that you can't tweak forever, even if you want to. Eventually you have to call it done and move on, lest you run out of time for future considerations.

    I agree that they can't do it forever especially where timeline and deadline is concerned but they could just iron out some kinks on the first build and that's it.. for example for the CS extension.. they could just give it a 3-5 sec extension cap and they do not have to waste anymore time to drop and rethink a new trait to put in place.

  6. #2166
    Quote Originally Posted by bassfu View Post
    It's like everyone who complains about the class hall has no clue about Valhalla. Blizzard's concept is solid but the execution is poor.
    It's like people that say this have no clue that the Halls of Valor and Valhalla are not the same thing. Conceptually similar, but entirely different.

    The concept isn't even "solid" when you remember the fact that the point of the class halls are to bring your class together to face the Legion. Like it or not, the Vrykul have little to do with the player race Warriors, so it's less bringing people together, and more joining a new faction altogether.

    Still none of that has anything to do with the issues laid out above:

    1) It's the only class hall where Warriors are explicitly not present, especially player-race Warriors or notable NPC's whom we would have interacted with in previous expansions.

    2) It's a re-used dungeon, which means it's not exclusive.

  7. #2167
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    It's like people that say this have no clue that the Halls of Valor and Valhalla are not the same thing. Conceptually similar, but entirely different.

    The concept isn't even "solid" when you remember the fact that the point of the class halls are to bring your class together to face the Legion. Like it or not, the Vrykul have little to do with the player race Warriors, so it's less bringing people together, and more joining a new faction altogether.

    Still none of that has anything to do with the issues laid out above:

    1) It's the only class hall where Warriors are explicitly not present, especially player-race Warriors or notable NPC's whom we would have interacted with in previous expansions.

    2) It's a re-used dungeon, which means it's not exclusive.
    Not to mention, canonically, there -CANT- be other warriors there. Just you, two Orcs if Horde, and an Orc and Nelf rogue if Alliance. Assuming they haven't been replaced, since every single one of our other followers are Vrykul, titans, or golems.
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  8. #2168
    Been following this topic for a long time now, without any changes nor responds to the community

    We need some one with a status to make a video about these issues, to put this on their table and not able to shove it away
    Like Asmongold, Bajheera, FatBoss, Bellular, HeelvsBabyface, Preach just naming a few. These guys do have influence on many

    As long as this can get recognized many can follow.
    Did asked a couple of them what their thoughts are about Warriors class and all their responds was "Meh, it's alright. Definitely need some work..."



    Personally what I am bummed about the most is our class hall. Talent, skills can still be tuned and changed. But changing our hall + artifact is something that will not happen down the line and will be definitely be stuck forever. It is hard to admit a fault as a company, admitting they where wrong is something you rarely see. Instead they stand by their decision and ride it out

    Do understand that this is fully how you interpenetrate Warrior
    Last edited by Trmp; 2016-05-02 at 03:04 PM.

  9. #2169
    Quote Originally Posted by Trmp View Post
    Been following this topic for a long time now, without any changes nor responds to the community

    We need some one with a status to make a video about these issues, to put this on their table and not able to shove it away
    Like Asmongold, Bajheera, FatBoss, Bellular, HeelvsBabyface, Preach just naming a few. These guys do have influence on many

    As long as this can get recognized many can follow.
    Did asked a couple of them what their thoughts are about Warriors class and all their responds was "Meh, it's alright. Definitely need some work..."



    Personally what I am bummed about the most is our class hall. Talent, skills can still be tuned and changed. But changing our hall + artifact is something that will not happen down the line and will be definitely be stuck forever. It is hard to admit a fault as a company, admitting they where wrong is something you rarely see. Instead they stand by their decision and ride it out

    Do understand that this is fully how you interpenetrate Warrior
    I messaged Asmongold and Bajheera about Arms and if they could provide feedback.

    Asmongold responded and said he honestly hasn't played the spec enough to provide valuable feedback or make a video about it. Understandable.

    No response from Bajheera. Also understandable.
    i9 9900K | Aorus Z390 Master | 32GB DDR4 | 2080 Ti | LG-UK650W

  10. #2170
    Asmongold seems to be a Fury or go home kinda guy and doesn't seem to be looking deep into classes or issues, Baj sems more likely to complain about PVP issues concerning tuning (correct me if I'm wrong as I've not seen much of him), Bellular is more concerned with overall game issues because he has a game company than isolated class issues. As for Az, I used to be in a guild with him and he's more interested in casual/community/social/transmog/drama fluff and not very well versed in class mechanics, also the fact that he plays a Warlock.

    Preach gets his facts messed up about Warriors too often because he's playing so many classes, he likes to compare to the past to use comparisons and examples but often gets facts completely off the mark and it ends up a bit like fluff talk to anyone who has spent considerable time with Warriors.

    That said someone like Preach has quite a reach and class mechanics is a bulk of his channel content. it's not like it would be hard for him to identify the issues, whether he would spend enough time with it and look into it enough to understand the nuances of the spec and the problems created is what worries me.. Preach is the kinda guy who will try to go deep and not fully understand what he's talking about, make a video about it anyway and speak as if he does.

    Most of the people who are going to complain about this do not have youtube channels or do not have a good enough following to reach an audience.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  11. #2171
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    Asmongold seems to be a Fury or go home kinda guy and doesn't seem to be looking deep into classes or issues, Baj sems more likely to complain about PVP issues concerning tuning (correct me if I'm wrong as I've not seen much of him)
    Sadly, one can't expect Bajheera to give valuable feedback of any kind. Most of the time he just laughs problems off, implying that Blizzard will eventually fix them. Don't get me wrong, I respect Bajheera as a person and like his cheerful and positive personality, but he totally lacks the willingness to analyse issues or share his thoughts regarding controversial topics.

    Asmongold on the other hand is capable of identifying a specs problems and addressed WoD arms' and furys rotational problems in several videos. While he might not analyse everything to its core, he is always spot on when it comes to name the most daring issues (sure, some of them are obvious - whirwind single target for example).

    Can't say much about the other guys.

  12. #2172
    youtube.com/watch?v=_jBRE85hYrk&feature=youtu.be&t=15m48s
    (Sorry cant post links yet)

    As i went through Bellulars Legion Alpha Arms video he did mention the issue of the arms design and shared his thoughts of it
    Sadly this was posted in January and did not got picked up be the devs

  13. #2173
    Quote Originally Posted by Trmp View Post
    youtube.com/watch?v=_jBRE85hYrk&feature=youtu.be&t=15m48s
    (Sorry cant post links yet)

    As i went through Bellulars Legion Alpha Arms video he did mention the issue of the arms design and shared his thoughts of it
    Sadly this was posted in January and did not got picked up be the devs
    He also posted his Arms video way back when the extension mechanic was in place and the overall community was fairly happy with Arms. He never did an update video after Arms got stripped down further.

  14. #2174
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondwind View Post
    He also posted his Arms video way back when the extension mechanic was in place and the overall community was fairly happy with Arms. He never did an update video after Arms got stripped down further.
    I feel like this a fairly large issue with warrior complaints in general. There was a lot of praise early on for decisions regarding both specs. RIP Dragon Roar/Heroic Strike build.

    The specs we have now are quite different from those early iterations, and it's easy to not understand that from the outside.

  15. #2175
    Quote Originally Posted by Trmp View Post
    youtube.com/watch?v=_jBRE85hYrk&feature=youtu.be&t=15m48s
    (Sorry cant post links yet)

    As i went through Bellulars Legion Alpha Arms video he did mention the issue of the arms design and shared his thoughts of it
    Sadly this was posted in January and did not got picked up be the devs
    This is the problem, the videos were done back in January when Arms was great.. It's not the same spec we have now. Preach did one back then too, nobody with a big following has covered it since it got gutted.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  16. #2176
    Quote Originally Posted by Trmp View Post
    We need some one with a status to make a video about these issues, to put this on their table and not able to shove it away
    Like Asmongold, Bajheera, FatBoss, Bellular, HeelvsBabyface, Preach just naming a few. These guys do have influence on many
    Yeah, that doesn't really work. Still the best and only video you need to see about WoD Arms.

    In 2 minutes he said everything that needed to be said, "I think warriors aren't quite finished." We know what happened...

  17. #2177
    I get sad and start to cry on the inside when I look at WoD/Legion Arms and remember how beautiful the spec was in Dragon Soul. Why did they butcher it so much ...

  18. #2178
    Quote Originally Posted by Trmp View Post
    Been following this topic for a long time now, without any changes nor responds to the community

    We need some one with a status to make a video about these issues, to put this on their table and not able to shove it away
    Like Asmongold, Bajheera, FatBoss, Bellular, HeelvsBabyface, Preach just naming a few. These guys do have influence on many

    As long as this can get recognized many can follow.
    Did asked a couple of them what their thoughts are about Warriors class and all their responds was "Meh, it's alright. Definitely need some work..."



    Personally what I am bummed about the most is our class hall. Talent, skills can still be tuned and changed. But changing our hall + artifact is something that will not happen down the line and will be definitely be stuck forever. It is hard to admit a fault as a company, admitting they where wrong is something you rarely see. Instead they stand by their decision and ride it out

    Do understand that this is fully how you interpenetrate Warrior
    If you think their videos have any more influence on the state of design than the rest of us you're sorely mistaken.

    • Bajheera rarely ever says bad things about design. He's overly positive, which isn't a bad thing, but he's rarely analytical. Of course, I'm perfectly fine with him giving PvP feedback, as that's what he excels at, but I don't want him near PvE, just like he likely wouldn't want me suggesting PvP changes.
    • Asmongold is seen as a troll. He's the opposite of Bajheera; while he actually has valid points, the way he presents them is regarded as a joke, and that doesn't exactly make people sit up and listen to him.
    • FatBoss and Preach are far too disconnected with the state of Warriors to be accurate. No offence to them, they're smart people, they simply aren't familiar enough with Warriors for anything but surface impression. Add FinalBoss to that list as well.
    • I don't even know who Bellular or Heelvs are, and that alone should tell you something.

    Look back over half that list and ask yourself, do you really want people who aren't Warriors giving Warrior feedback? Sure, it might be useful if they say exactly what the Warriors want, but I can tell you from experience that rarely happens.

  19. #2179
    Seems pretty moot. They aren't looking for such feedback anymore regardless who it comes from. The best of the class have already had their words go in one ear and out the other.

  20. #2180
    Quote Originally Posted by Murlocbait View Post
    Yeah, that doesn't really work. Still the best and only video you need to see about WoD Arms.

    In 2 minutes he said everything that needed to be said, "I think warriors aren't quite finished." We know what happened...
    I don't know.. that Asmongold video when he talks about the 6.2 Arms Warrior rotation before the nerf to the tier set. When he broke out the super nintendo controller I just about lost it.

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