Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Relapses]

I thought there was suppose to be something announced today ... yet the day is getting very close to being over ... (in PST, its already Monday in most places)

The announcement was a replay system and more of the typical us vs. them rhetoric.

http://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=44031

[Eliseus]

Because you're using a perverse, romanticized idealism of Vanilla WoW to support your cause. If both current WoW and Vanilla WoW are available, why would you want to willfully subject yourself to the boring grindfest of Vanilla when you can log over to a live realm and do the same thing in a fraction of the time? After conditioning players for so many expansions that they are rewarded for nearly zero effort, I don't see how you can think that the masses of WoW's audience would suddenly become enamored by a game that is in almost every way inferior to the current product. Am I saying that everybody would feel this way? No. But I think the vast majority would just be like "Fuck this shit, I'm out," after a few hours.

This idea that Vanilla is the Holy Grail of MMOs is just... I don't understand where it comes from. And it's just plain ass-backwards to apply the logic that since Vanilla was successful somehow reintroducing it would captivate an audience just as large as its first iteration.

You are correct, at the current population levels, assuming they still hold around 4million, which honestly is probably being generious, Legacy servers will probably not see the same population numbers as the current servers. People aren't claiming a Legacy server will see 7.5million subs just for it. Could it? Maybe. Realistically? I wouldn't get my hopes up. There was only one post I saw lately where someone said the numbers would triple WoWs current subs. I personally just dismissed that internally since obviously the person is very passionate about classic, but that I don't feel that is realistic.

You also state you don't feel the masses of current WoWs audiance would play it. Well you better be preaching to your buddies who think Legacy servers will take all resources of current WoW then, because it's obvious from your implication that you all don't feel that way.

And yes, I can say without a doubt, after watching millions of people just WATCHING people go throw speed runs of things like Mario 64 and Zelda on the SNES, and listening to people who play those old games over and over that people will infact play on this servers for the 100th time, 1000000th time, or w/e.

Claiming a game to be inferior is subjective to your opinion. As clearly many have stated in this thread they feel the game currently is inferior. Is there certain aspects that truly are better? Without a doubt, if we break it down to a technological level, and things like graphics engine, but FUN is not yours to dictate.

Matter of fact, my friends and I from other MMOs I play talk about all the time how it's like our 10th time going through an FF game, and we laugh how we always enjoy it more than we did the previous time, and try our hardest to spot something we didn't before. Even go as far as to hope we discover something that has never been discovered before. Now I'm just ranting though, but I hope you get it.

[Vineri]

Because you're using a perverse, romanticized idealism of Vanilla WoW to support your cause. If both current WoW and Vanilla WoW are available, why would you want to willfully subject yourself to the boring grindfest of Vanilla when you can log over to a live realm and do the same thing in a fraction of the time? After conditioning players for so many expansions that they are rewarded for nearly zero effort, I don't see how you can think that the masses of WoW's audience would suddenly become enamored by a game that is in almost every way inferior to the current product. Am I saying that everybody would feel this way? No. But I think the vast majority would just be like "Fuck this shit, I'm out," after a few hours.

This idea that Vanilla is the Holy Grail of MMOs is just... I don't understand where it comes from. And it's just plain ass-backwards to apply the logic that since Vanilla was successful somehow reintroducing it would captivate an audience just as large as its first iteration.

My $15 a month says I will go to the Vanilla server, thanks.

[Uurdz]

My $15 a month says I will go to the Vanilla server, thanks.

Mine too.
Quoted poster seems to struggle to understand that different people like different things.

[flan1337]

Some of us pay attention to the law. Some of you don't, probably because you do not yet have anything to protect. When you are earning a wage, would you be so happy if your bank account was hacked and people helped themselves to the money you earned? If you would be upset, why are you supporting theives?

That is the most far fetched analogy I have ever read. Even responding to this is silly ,but I will to correct you. Nost was not making money NOR did they want to they only collected enough for the server. There is NO WAY to play classic wow in the live game. So you tell me, how can you legally play a game you can't play? Play retail? Retail wow ISN'T classic.

"Oh but Retail wow is better than classic" Opinions. Just like people are hyped about a reboot of cod4 people can hope for a reboot of classic wow.

Freakin Keyboard turners.

[Eapoe]

That is the most far fetched analogy I have ever read. Even responding to this is silly ,but I will to correct you. Nost was not making money NOR did they want to they only collected enough for the server. There is NO WAY to play classic wow in the live game. So you tell me, how can you legally play a game you can't play? Play retail? Retail wow ISN'T classic.

"Oh but Retail wow is better than classic" Opinions. Just like people are hyped about a reboot of cod4 people can hope for a reboot of classic wow.

Freakin Keyboard turners.

Okay, I have to point this out. This is your post: "Nost did not make money nor did they want to...they only collected enough for the server." So, they made money. Just because you do not make profit or money for personal gain does not mean it did it make money.
You then go: "How can you legally play a game you can't play?"
So, by your own statements, Nost made money, and Nost is illegal.
As far as opinions go, they are just that, opinions. They are on both sides when you try to compare vanilla to retail or any other xpac. All are opinions.

[ls-]

Would be funny if Blizzard did (in)famous Apple trick Apple once invited a hacker to talk about possible future employment, but when dude arrived, the only thing he got was a pair of handcuffs

Ofc Blizz won't do so, I dun want it to happen either, but I find this kind of scenario quite hilarious

[Vineri]

Okay, I have to point this out. This is your post: "Nost did not make money nor did they want to...they only collected enough for the server." So, they made money. Just because you do not make profit or money for personal gain does not mean it did it make money.
You then go: "How can you legally play a game you can't play?"
So, by your own statements, Nost made money, and Nost is illegal.
As far as opinions go, they are just that, opinions. They are on both sides when you try to compare vanilla to retail or any other xpac. All are opinions.

If they paid everything they collected to operate the servers, then how did they make money? Zzzzz.....

How does one illegally play a game that doesn't exist?

To many, myself included, retail WoW is not worth paying for. It's not opinion at that point. It's a reality that many players want the original game they once played, and thus that is why legacy servers are so popular.

If Blizzard is smart, they will jump on this to make their own legacy servers. $15 a month to play on a server that guarantees characters to be saved, on a server that will never be shut down is going to be a humongous fishing lure.

[Wildmoon]

If they paid everything they collected to operate the servers, then how did they make money? Zzzzz.....

How does one illegally play a game that doesn't exist?

To many, myself included, retail WoW is not worth paying for. It's not opinion at that point. It's a reality that many players want the original game they once played, and thus that is why legacy servers are so popular.

If Blizzard is smart, they will jump on this to make their own legacy servers. $15 a month to play on a server that guarantees characters to be saved, on a server that will never be shut down is going to be a humongous fishing lure.

It obviously doesn't work that way legally. -_-"

[Derpling]

To many, myself included, retail WoW is not worth paying for. It's not opinion at that point.

If Blizzard is smart, they will jump on this to make their own legacy servers. $15 a month to play on a server that guarantees characters to be saved, on a server that will never be shut down is going to be a humongous fishing lure.

That is the very definition of an opinion. Some people think retail is worth it, some don't.

And you vastly overestimate the number of people that would be willing to pay for a vanilla server, sorry. It'll be a ghost town within months.

[Relapses]

To many, myself included, retail WoW is not worth paying for. It's not opinion at that point. It's a reality that many players want the original game they once played, and thus that is why legacy servers are so popular.

That's still an opinion. Just because a bunch of people share the same opinion doesn't make any more factual or any less of an opinion. See: Politics.

Additionally, you're again mistakenly using the echo chamber of this forum as proof of something that isn't there. Sure, a lot of people around here want Legacy realms but there's only a small minority of WoW's playerbase who even bother visiting MMO-Champ and there's an even smaller minority of those players who take the time to post on these forums. There's no way to equivocally say how many people would want to play on Legacy realms unless you anonymously polled the players playing the game. (Making presumptions off of the vocal minority here doesn't help the case either.)

[Eliseus]

That is the very definition of an opinion. Some people think retail is worth it, some don't.

And you vastly overestimate the number of people that would be willing to pay for a vanilla server, sorry. It'll be a ghost town within months.

Nost had 150k Active players. I'd still prefer a "ghost town" by your definition to Garrison Craft. Doesn't matter what excuse you want to use. Nost proved just a fraction of players will play here. This is ignoring people like me who won't play on an illegal server, and people who didn't even know about Nost. You have SSs of people who are still just finding out about this cause canceling subs. You guys claim Classic is crap, then claim these people only want to play on f2p, when by definition there is far superior our there than Classic WoW. You contradict your own views left and right.

But ultimately the above is irrelevant, prove that it will be a ghost town. We have a petition alone with 250k+ players that know what they are getting into, hence requesting Blizzard for the server, not a free server mind you. Given the samples we can have in other games, this drop in population that is implied doesn't exist, until an expansion that the population dropped to begin with. You are correct in your generalization though of months. The population could drop from anywhere at launch to forever.

Yes, things like the petition are proof. Any indication of otherwise is wild speculation. It could turn out you are right, but we won't know UNTIL a server exists, because again, there isn't anything to indicate otherwise.

Yell at me all you want. Tell me to fuck off all you want. Ad hominem the crap out of me. Ignore me as some have done instead of providing anything. Until proof otherwise indicates the opposite, there has been nothing to indicate your claim.

[Relapses]

But ultimately the above is irrelevant, prove that it will be a ghost town. We have a petition alone with 250k+ players that know what they are getting into, hence requesting Blizzard for the server, not a free server mind you. Given the samples we can have in other games, this drop in population that is implied doesn't exist, until an expansion that the population dropped to begin with. You are correct in your generalization though of months. The population could drop from anyone at launch to forever.

Since we're being hyperbolic here, please, for the sake of argument, prove to me that each and every one of the 250,000 people who signed that petition would be willing to pay for the right to play the server.

[Vineri]

That is the very definition of an opinion. Some people think retail is worth it, some don't.

And you vastly overestimate the number of people that would be willing to pay for a vanilla server, sorry. It'll be a ghost town within months.

Actually what you consider opinion is more fact. People are playing legacy WoW on multiple servers still operating, as we speak, for free, without paying. Only some were shut down, the biggest being Nostalrius. They chose to not pay / play retail WoW. They snub it =D

It's hard to say how many will pay for legacy, but the number is definitely going to be greater than zero, which is the current count. WoW retail folks will try it and likely leave to get back to more free purples .... but can you say the same for those who live for the original game? They are way more likely to stay and call it home, eh?

[Relapses]

It's hard to say how many will pay for legacy, but the number is definitely going to be greater than zero, which is the current count. WoW retail folks will try it and likely leave to get back to more free purples .... but can you say the same for those who live for the original game? They are way more likely to stay and call it home, eh?

Can you provide any proof than your hunch that the amount of development time necessary to upkeep Legacy realms wouldn't somehow negatively impact the current version of the game? This has been my argument the whole time. I'm not against them strictly, I'm against them interfering with current production. If simply flipping a switch and bringing back Legacy realms was an option, I'm sure Blizzard would have done it ages ago.

[Eliseus]

Since we're being hyperbolic here, please, for the sake of argument, prove to me that each and every one of the 250,000 people who signed that petition would be willing to pay for the right to play the server.

What do you think people do when they are being part of a cause that involves an official server by Blizzard? Magically play for free (I guess they can with tokens, but someone is still paying)? Do you really think people are that dumb? Are you trying to indicate that none of us can afford $15 a month? Are you claiming that Classic is crap and that no one wants it while also neglecting the obvious 150k active players that were playing such crap that is apparently worse than the other crap they could be playing? It is logical sense that people who join a cause for something that is apparent will cost a monthly payment, that they know what they are getting into. Blizzards monthly payments aren't new.

Matter of fact, the slew of responses on just twitter and here alone of people who said they would pay, even saying they would sign up for the largest payment they could should be indication that people know what they are going into. Unless someone is living in a box and signed the petition and has no idea what Blizzard even is and doesn't keep up to date at all with the cause this signed. This is just logical reasoning. This isn't some rocket science understanding. Maybe if we walked into a world where Blizzard is just newly charging monthly payments. I could understand the worry that people asking for a Blizzard server could be confusing.

Also considering how many people have CANCELED their preorders, it's safe to assume these people would pay............. lol

Thinking about all the times on private servers I've played of live-like experience has never even been about money. People have typically told me it is because they can't get the experience elsewhere. Then you have certain servers I can't mention that are live like that people spend more money on than a monthly payment would cost.

[Vineri]

Can you provide any proof than your hunch that the amount of development time necessary to upkeep Legacy realms wouldn't somehow negatively impact the current version of the game? This has been my argument the whole time. I'm not against them strictly, I'm against them interfering with current production. If simply flipping a switch and bringing back Legacy realms was an option, I'm sure Blizzard would have done it ages ago.

If you are against it, then I propose you advocate allowing legacy servers to remain operating in the wild, for free. That way, dev time is fully devoted to your latest and greatest expansions.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Relapses]

What do you think people do when they are being part of a cause that involves an official server by Blizzard? Magically play for free (I guess they can with tokens, but someone is still paying)? Do you really think people are that dumb? Are you trying to indicate that none of us can afford $15 a month? Are you claiming that Classic is crap and that no one wants it while also neglecting the obvious 150k active players that were playing such crap that is apparently worse than the other crap they could be playing? It is logical sense that people who join a cause for something that is apparent will cost a monthly payment, that they know what they are getting into. Blizzards monthly payments aren't new.

Matter of fact, the slew of responses on just twitter and here alone of people who said they would pay, even saying they would sign up for the largest payment they could should be indication that people know what they are going into. Unless someone is living in a box and signed the petition and has no idea what Blizzard even is and doesn't keep up to date at all with the cause this signed. This is just logical reasoning. This isn't some rocket science understanding. Maybe if we walked into a world where Blizzard is just newly charging monthly payments. I could understand the worry that people asking for a Blizzard server could be confusing.

Also considering how many people have CANCELED their preorders, it's safe to assume these people would pay............. lol

Nost was free. The petition doesn't implicitly say they're looking to have the game re-commissioned by Blizzard with a subscription fee. Some of the players signing the petition would simply like for Nost to come back, or for Blizzard to find a way to allow Nost to exist without violating its IP copyright. It's highly presumptive to say that every single person who signs that petition wants to pay for Vanilla WoW.

Also,

If you are against it, then I propose you advocate allowing legacy servers to remain operating in the wild, for free.

...this is literally the reason copyright law exists. If Blizzard allows all private servers to operate without prejudice it deteriorates the WoW brand as a whole because players might confuse a private realm for something approved under an official capacity. (The fact that some of them are pay-to-win further substantiates this.)

[Wildmoon]

What do you think people do when they are being part of a cause that involves an official server by Blizzard? Magically play for free (I guess they can with tokens, but someone is still paying)? Do you really think people are that dumb? Are you trying to indicate that none of us can afford $15 a month? Are you claiming that Classic is crap and that no one wants it while also neglecting the obvious 150k active players that were playing such crap that is apparently worse than the other crap they could be playing? It is logical sense that people who join a cause for something that is apparent will cost a monthly payment, that they know what they are getting into. Blizzards monthly payments aren't new.

Matter of fact, the slew of responses on just twitter and here alone of people who said they would pay, even saying they would sign up for the largest payment they could should be indication that people know what they are going into. Unless someone is living in a box and signed the petition and has no idea what Blizzard even is and doesn't keep up to date at all with the cause this signed. This is just logical reasoning. This isn't some rocket science understanding. Maybe if we walked into a world where Blizzard is just newly charging monthly payments. I could understand the worry that people asking for a Blizzard server could be confusing.

Also considering how many people have CANCELED their preorders, it's safe to assume these people would pay............. lol

Thinking about all the times on private servers I've played of live-like experience has never even been about money. People have typically told me it is because they can't get the experience elsewhere. Then you have certain servers I can't mention that are live like that people spend more money on than a monthly payment would cost.

Too many assumptions. Not all who played Nos, signed the petition or canceled sub are going to pay for vanilla server. It's very hard to estimate its success. That's the reason Blizzard is hesitant on it. If it's such an obvious success then we will not be talking about this.

[Vineri]

...this is literally the reason copyright law exists. If Blizzard allows all private servers to operate without prejudice it deteriorates the WoW brand as a whole because players might confuse a private realm for something approved under an official capacity. (The fact that some of them are pay-to-win further substantiates this.)

Why does it bother you so much then? You made it clear you want Blizzard to spend as much time as possible for new content, why get bent out of shape over what other people do in their spare time? If you are convinced they will never spend anything here on a legacy server, then they won't ever be converted to "your" side anyways. So from your standpoint, why care? Why defend Blizzards IP for them, when they do that on their own?

Could it be alarming to your argument, that the ones who pay-to-win actually have expendable cash? Must make you cringe! =D