Remove animation cancelling

[Haaz]

Can Goblins cancel Disengage mid-flight with Rocket Boots then?

Wouldnt be supriced if they can.
My point is I dont think the problem is being able to cancel it.. The problem is that we are being forced to cancel it, I admit I really do not enjoy that.

[the boar]

you can cancel disengage with rocket boots, glider and prob anything else that triggers movement while in-air.

the fel-rush thing sounds a bit like when you tap a movement key and spacebar at the same time to get your mount to jump on the spot, rather than in any particular direction, would that be a fair comparison?

cancelling retreat sounds like a simple enough thing and i have no problem with that - but doing an on-spot fel-rush using a quirky hard to pull off (due to lag or a muscle spasm or whatever else) sounds a bit less.... fun.

[Racthoh]

disengage is used for movement if i'm not mistaken, not a rotational ability. so you can't really compare anyways.

[Lesane]

Because god forbid there is any kind of varience between different classes right ?

How is this creating variance between classes? There's already a distance difference between the two and VR also deals some damage. The point is that VR was obviously intended as a mobility spell and the other mobility spell that is just like it functions properly. This one is able to get canceled for some reason, which sort of defeats the whole purpose of the ability and the only reason people are advocating in favor of keeping it like this is because it's obviously tied to a rotational DPS talent. If there wasn't any sort of DPS gain in using VR I'm pretty sure everyone would agree that it's a bug that you can somehow cancel your disengage to stay on the spot, seeing how if you wanted to stay on the spot you'd just not use the ability in the first place.

disengage is used for movement if i'm not mistaken, not a rotational ability. so you can't really compare anyways.

So is VR. The only reason VR becomes "rotational" is because of Prepared. Disengage also had a damage boost talent earlier in alpha, but I believe it got deleted for obvious reasons.

The talents are fine tbh, they might be nice picks on heavy movement fights where you'd be using your movement abilities anyway for what they're intended but the way it works right now they might as well just make them replace your movement abilities for an active temporary damage boost/fury gain spell because that's how everyone's going to be using them for if this stupid animation canceling stays in. If that's the intended gameplay they want, I'd rather have them to do that (replace the movement ability with an on demand buff) so people aren't forced to do clunky animation canceling.

you can cancel disengage with rocket boots, glider and prob anything else that triggers movement while in-air.

the fel-rush thing sounds a bit like when you tap a movement key and spacebar at the same time to get your mount to jump on the spot, rather than in any particular direction, would that be a fair comparison?

cancelling retreat sounds like a simple enough thing and i have no problem with that - but doing an on-spot fel-rush using a quirky hard to pull off (due to lag or a muscle spasm or whatever else) sounds a bit less.... fun.

If you ask me you're either in favor of animation canceling or against it. How easy it is to pull off shouldn't really make a difference.

[Deleted]

How is this creating variance between classes? There's already a distance difference between the two and VR also deals some damage. The point is that VR was obviously intended as a mobility spell and the other mobility spell that is just like it functions properly. This one is able to get canceled for some reason, which sort of defeats the whole purpose of the ability and the only reason people are advocating in favor of keeping it like this is because it's obviously tied to a rotational DPS talent. If there wasn't any sort of DPS gain in using VR I'm pretty sure everyone would agree that it's a bug that you can somehow cancel your disengage to stay on the spot, seeing how if you wanted to stay on the spot you'd just not use the ability in the first place.

Demon hunter can cancel their disengage , hunter can not . That how it creates varience. Yes VR is a movement abillity and with the animation canceling it become a more powerfull and more precise tool to use. You can not only move backwards but you can also choose how far.Making the jump backwards smaller on demand doesnt mean it defeats it purpose it just means it is more flexible.
Yes a big part of why I think its good is the DPS you gain from it . It is very enjoyable for me knowing that controlling my movement abillites has an actual impact in my gameplay instead of it just beeing a "oh shit i need to get someplace a little bit faster then walking".
But personally I also feel that this "combo" feels alot like a "manuel Death from Above" , which for me , really carries the feel of a mobile and agile class.

Your only point right now is the assumption that "its not supposed to be that way".

[Cooper]

Hahaha, "I feel really agile and mobile by not moving at all." What a bunch of disingenuous bullshit. The only reason you want the animation cancel to stay is for the DPS gain. That's it, and it's abundantly obvious.

If Blizzard didn't want Momentum to be tied to movement, they wouldn't have tied it to movement abilities and they wouldn't have called it "Momentum".

There's also the argument that animation canceling is unfun, garbage gameplay.

[Deleted]

Hahaha, "I feel really agile and mobile by not moving at all." What a bunch of disingenuous bullshit. The only reason you want the animation cancel to stay is for the DPS gain. That's it, and it's abundantly obvious.

If Blizzard didn't want Momentum to be tied to movement, they wouldn't have tied it to movement abilities and they wouldn't have called it "Momentum".

There's also the argument that animation canceling is unfun, garbage gameplay.

But you are moving , you are jumping in air and gliding back down. And like I said a big part of why i want it to stay is because of DPS gain but its not my only reason.

If animation canceling is fun or not cant be used as an argument , since thats different from person to person.

[Cooper]

But you are moving , you are jumping in air and gliding back down. And like I said a big part of why i want it to stay is because of DPS gain but its not my only reason.

It is your only reason. You're just throwing shit at the wall and hoping something sticks in order to obfuscate that fact. Gently gliding back to the ground after jumping in place is no more "mobile and agile" than the Goblin glider is, and it certainly isn't the impactful movement that an ability like Momentum implies; it's certainly not "Death from Above." In fact, using wings to decelerate the descent would detract significantly from the momentum one might gain from the fall.

If animation canceling is fun or not cant be used as an argument , since thats different from person to person.

It absolutely can be used as an argument. Pressing spacebar to negate the undesired effects (while retaining all the benefits) of a particular ability does not enhance the gameplay in any way. It is not a "combo." It is simply exploiting a loophole in the system to cheese mechanics. It is bad gameplay.

[Deleted]

It is your only reason. You're just throwing shit at the wall and hoping something sticks in order to obfuscate that fact. Gently gliding back to the ground after jumping in place is no more "mobile and agile" than the Goblin glider is, and it certainly isn't the impactful movement that an ability like Momentum implies; it's certainly not "Death from Above." In fact, using wings to decelerate the descent would detract significantly from the momentum one might gain from the fall.

It is in fact not my only reason and if you would've taken a few minutes to read all of my posts you would know. What about it beeing a more versatile abillity this way? Choosing the distance you want to travel ? Even if momentum wasnt a thing I'd still argue that this makes VR a better spell to use.

It absolutely can be used as an argument. Pressing spacebar to negate the undesired effects (while retaining all the benefits) of a particular ability does not enhance the gameplay in any way. It is not a "combo." It is simply exploiting a loophole in the system to cheese mechanics. It is bad gameplay.

Alright , I'll mention what i also said earlier in this thread. What if VR becomes a second activation that lets you stop the backwards movement ? Similar to how Flying serpent kick is handled. Is that then still a loophole in the system ? Of course not , only now its backed into one button instead of using your spacebar. Why dont I see you complaining about flying serpent kick anywhere ? Its the same thing.

Again you're just trying to discredit what i say with the only argument that "its not supposed to be that way" which neither you or me actually know. Maybe blizzard actually wants VR and Glide to interact this way similar to the double activation of FSK. Earlier in this thread I read and talked about alot more compelling and real arguments , what had way more weight then "animation cancelling is bad gameplay"
But I guess im still just throwing shit at the wall.

[Raiju]

How is this creating variance between classes? There's already a distance difference between the two and VR also deals some damage. The point is that VR was obviously intended as a mobility spell and the other mobility spell that is just like it functions properly. This one is able to get canceled for some reason, which sort of defeats the whole purpose of the ability and the only reason people are advocating in favor of keeping it like this is because it's obviously tied to a rotational DPS talent. If there wasn't any sort of DPS gain in using VR I'm pretty sure everyone would agree that it's a bug that you can somehow cancel your disengage to stay on the spot, seeing how if you wanted to stay on the spot you'd just not use the ability in the first place.

No, they wouldn't because it's hard to argue it's even a bug. It is identical to using disengage then rocket jumping to gain height. DH having double jump/glide allows for you to adjust your mobility mid-retreat if needed, which is more argument to it's mobility.

Let's also clarify that the VR cancel isn't interrupting VR at all. Once you are being propelled backward VR is already 'complete' and the only thing stopping you is when you hit the ground. This is different to fel rush, which is not only intended to do carry you a certain distance (example - VR uphill vs FR uphill) but requires explicitly breaking the movement it does, rather than starting it & cancelling it after. The game supports this argument itself, since your fel rush does damage ahead of you regardless of whether you broke the animation or not.

The only way to 'fix' VR is to give it some arbitrary amount of time where you can't jump/glide after using it. How do you choose this time? The difference can be significant just based on the incline of the terrain, before we consider cliffs.

[Shinaruh]

Arguing over whether this animation canceling style should stay or not is moot, there is no way Blizzard will leave it this way. It's pretty obvious that the intended design of the talent is to allow you to choose a play style that makes use of VR and FR in your rotation, with a short damage boost to compensate for the time spent off of the target after using the abilities. Sure, better players will be able to minimize the amount of time spent off of target, but there's no way they intend for you to be able to circumvent the character movement entirely to take advantage of the 20% damage buff while stationary. If using two abilities to try and maximize uptime on a damage buff was the intended rotation, they would have given us much different buttons to press.

[Baelroc]

Ill also say this:

If the VR animation cancel WAS intended, then it would be implemented like FSK, being able to press it again to stop the movement. Not the MacGyver way it is now.

[Raiju]

Ill also say this:

If the VR animation cancel WAS intended, then it would be implemented like FSK, being able to press it again to stop the movement. Not the MacGyver way it is now.

Except VR is not comparable to FSK at all. VR propels you in a direction. After the initial kick the spell has no bearing on how far you go. This is why you go nowhere using it against an incline.

[Baelroc]

Except VR is not comparable to FSK at all. VR propels you in a direction. After the initial kick the spell has no bearing on how far you go. This is why you go nowhere using it against an incline.

You are missing the point.

They intend FSK to be "cancel-able". And as such, they enable the button to be pressed again to cancel it and drop you where you are.

My thought is, if they intend VR to be "cancel-able", then they would implement a similar mechanic where you can press it again and open your wings to stop your momentum, not the haphazard way it is now.

I won't even get into FR because that is obviously a bug.

[Raiju]

If that were the case then Disengage > Rocket Jump would've been disabled long ago (rocket jump being off GCD even). Now the ramifications are different here than a hunter being able to bug their way around terrain better / make retarded jumps due to momentum, but it's not like there isn't precedence for the VR 'cancel' established for 6 years now.

[Baelroc]

Yes, but Disengage / Rocket Jump are mostly harmless. Just a parlor trick really. We are talking about 2 talents that define the core gameplay of a spec.

[Forde]

Totally against animation cancelling. Exploiting the game, which this is, as you are supposed to move X yards in one direction, be it FR or VR, should not be encouraged for this.

It takes away any risk that momentum is supposed to give, and with animation cancelling causes the talent to be straight up overpowered and broken.

[Manu9]

Totally against animation cancelling. Exploiting the game, which this is, as you are supposed to move X yards in one direction, be it FR or VR, should not be encouraged for this.

It takes away any risk that momentum is supposed to give, and with animation cancelling causes the talent to be straight up overpowered and broken.

With FR I agree with you, but when it comes to VR I don't tbh, it's using the class mechanics to squeeze more of said class, nothing wrong with that.

[Raiju]

Yes, but Disengage / Rocket Jump are mostly harmless. Just a parlor trick really. We are talking about 2 talents that define the core gameplay of a spec.

It's only core gameplay with 1 specific talent, really. Prepared doesn't even necessitate the same "requirement" to be in melee immediately.

[Deleted]

Can't believe there's so much talk about this. It's obviously not intended. The entire point is for you to move around and be awarded for that through the energy regen from missing attacks during the movement and increased damage too. Just remove the animation cancelling and buff the damage of said talents so it's actually worth to potentielle lose a couple of seconds out of melee range.