Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Relapses]

I don't think that today's average player would be inclined to play Vanilla...

Are you sure? There's nothing more exciting than pulling one mob at a time, dying 50 times while trying to complete a quest because of buggy bullshit AI, having to walk everywhere because you're too fucking broke to get a mount and spending hours waiting at a summoning stone for your group to arrive. It's about as immersive as an MMO can get. And after you're done with the boring amazingly fun grindfest to 60 and are ready to step into raid content, you get to begin the next exciting wing of your adventure: Grinding RESIST gear!

:cue confetti dropping from the ceiling:

Why yes, there's nothing in the world quite like the feeling of having every single one of your spells resisted by a mob because of some bullshit mechanic that only exists because the developers thought the people who played EQ might relate to it. And don't worry, your raid gear will have stats like Strength and Agility if you're a caster because that makes sense. All in all, you'll be so busy having fun that you might accidentally ejaculate all over your keyboard every time you log in so it's recommended that you purchase a Nostralius brand keyboard protector from the Blizzard store just to be safe.

[Dormie]

The fact that you have to exaggerate and essentially lie in your last 2 posts shows how little you have to go on.

[Relapses]

The fact that you have to exaggerate and essentially lie in your last 2 posts shows how little you have to go on.

I personally don't have a problem with Vanilla, I'm just poking fun at the equally exaggerated recollections people use as evidence of Vanilla's unequivocal greatness.

[AeneasBK]

You're thinking of Super Mario Maker.

But remember, it's an unwavering fact that the original Mario levels are the best there will ever be and anybody who dares question their monolithic, Godlike perfection is clearly out of touch with reality. :^)

I'm not remotely familiar with the franchise pre Mario 64 tbh; but it striked me that the 2d platformer is still appreciated by a lot of people, if they are still makign stuff like that for them

[Deleted]

I played and raided at a high level from vanilla to the end of MoP, and the only thing that would bring me back would be a legacy server, or better, if they DRASTICALLY changed the retail to make it feel more like the game did back in vanilla/tbc, because imo, the game only got worse and worse after TBC (dummied it down too much and killed the community with tons of shitty features).
Some (of many) changes that i would like to see in the retail ->

• Remove cross-realm and merge most of the low pop realms together (cross-realm killed server community).
• Remove Garrisons.
• Remove raid and maybe dungeon finder, another option would be to keep lfr but make the loot blue, this way casuals get to see the raid content but it doesn't ruin the rarity and feeling of getting an epic item.
• Made gearing, dungeons, professions, earning gold and quests/leveling as "hard" as it was in TBC (vanilla leveling, gearing etc was too slow).
• Went back to the vanilla/TBC talent system but kept dual spec and maybe glyphs.
• Remove flying mounts (they pretty much killed world PvP) and remove alot of the portals, if you want to travel somewhere it should force you to get out in the world, not stand in a capital and press a portal.
• Remove reforge and transmog, it took away alot of the feeling of getting new gear, i also hate not being able to see who has good/bad gear.
• Drastically lowered the dps, healing and stat numbers, TBC numbers were good.
• Implemented raid attunements again, maybe not as long/hard as they were in vanilla, but something.
• Keep 20 (or 25) man raids but go back to only having one or two raid difficulties, bosses should drop less loot as well (2-3 items).
• Add more content (like TBC) and let each expansion last longer.

[Pyreo]

I played and raided at a high level from vanilla to the end of MoP, and the only thing that would bring me back would be a legacy server, or better, if they DRASTICALLY changed the retail to make it feel more like the game did back in vanilla/tbc, because imo, the game only got worse and worse after TBC (dummied it down too much and killed the community with tons of shitty features).
Some (of many) changes that i would like to see in the retail ->

• Remove cross-realm and merge most of the low pop realms together (cross-realm killed server community).
• Remove raid and maybe dungeon finder, another option would be to keep lfr but make the loot blue, this way casuals get see the raid content but it doesn't ruin the rarity and feeling of getting an epic item.
• Made gearing, dungeons, professions, earning gold and quests/leveling as "hard" as it was in TBC (vanilla leveling, gearing etc was too slow).
• Went back to the vanilla/TBC talent system but kept dual spec and maybe glyphs.
• Remove flying mounts (they pretty much killed world PvP) and remove alot of the portals, if you want to travel somewhere it should force you to get out in the world, not stand in a capital and press a portal.
• Remove reforge and transmog, it took away alot of the feeling of getting new gear, i also hate not being able to see who has good/bad gear.
• Drastically lowered the dps, healing and stat numbers, TBC numbers were good.
• Implemented raid attunements again, maybe not as long/hard as they were in vanilla, but something.
• Keep 20 (or 25) man raids but go back to only having one or two raid difficulties, bosses should drop less loot as well (2-3 items).
• Add more content (like TBC) and let each expansion last longer.

I and many others would definitely quit over these changes. You aren't asking to make the game fun you're asking to make the game boring, grindy, and just hard for the sake of being hard. Remove transmog? That feature alone has kept me subscribed just to put together outfits for my main and alts.

[AeneasBK]

I and many others would definitely quit over these changes. You aren't asking to make the game fun you're asking to make the game boring, grindy, and just hard for the sake of being hard. Remove transmog? That feature alone has kept me subscribed just to put together outfits for my main and alts.

Transmog for me is a tricky one. I've enjoyed using it loads, and spent a fair amount of time farming up gear sets (although I was doing that before they announced transmog anyway); but it's kinda nice to "see" what the other player is wearing...

I'd suggest it be a "solo view" thing, so you can transmog to whatever you want, but it only appears to you that way. If other players want, they can toggle "Transmogs On/Off" in their interface options.

[Uoyredrum]

I and many others would definitely quit over these changes. You aren't asking to make the game fun you're asking to make the game boring, grindy, and just hard for the sake of being hard. Remove transmog? That feature alone has kept me subscribed just to put together outfits for my main and alts.

Even though I don't agree with every point, his version of the game would be a lot better. Sure, some people would quit, but people quit over stupid things all the time, that's nothing new. Changes need to be made for the health of the game, not the convenience of casual players.

- - - Updated - - -

Transmog for me is a tricky one. I've enjoyed using it loads, and spent a fair amount of time farming up gear sets (although I was doing that before they announced transmog anyway); but it's kinda nice to "see" what the other player is wearing...

I'd suggest it be a "solo view" thing, so you can transmog to whatever you want, but it only appears to you that way. If other players want, they can toggle "Transmogs On/Off" in their interface options.

I agree, that's actually a pretty good idea.

[hulkgor]

to people who (no judgement) people who are literally too retarded to play the game normally?

Most absurd thing i read this week, but i don't know why i still get surprised on MMO-C, and shit like this doesn't get moderated, ok then.

[Sabever]

Currently I enjoy Transmog. But back in vanilla everyone was not decked out in blingy getups. It was so much better and more fantasy like of an enviornment.

Bring back Vanilla. I cannot wait to see a dragon and think, holy cow dragon. In current WoW you can find entire fricking zones with non elite dragons.

In Vanilla seeing a dragon was amazing. They just keep force feeding us stuff and taking away all the allure.

[Everwake]

It is nostalgia though, about the old game, the old times, the social aspect, the talent trees, whatever.
There were some things better then, and there are some things that are better now imo.
I personally think that the world is beautiful now, and questing is streamlined better.
I guess some people like the qol changes, while some don't.

In my case, it's about a smaller world and more player interaction. There's very little nostalgia for me, as I played other MMOs before WoW released.

[jasdasm]

I played and raided at a high level from vanilla to the end of MoP, and the only thing that would bring me back would be a legacy server, or better, if they DRASTICALLY changed the retail to make it feel more like the game did back in vanilla/tbc, because imo, the game only got worse and worse after TBC (dummied it down too much and killed the community with tons of shitty features).
Some (of many) changes that i would like to see in the retail ->

• Remove cross-realm and merge most of the low pop realms together (cross-realm killed server community).
• Remove Garrisons.
• Remove raid and maybe dungeon finder, another option would be to keep lfr but make the loot blue, this way casuals get see the raid content but it doesn't ruin the rarity and feeling of getting an epic item.
• Made gearing, dungeons, professions, earning gold and quests/leveling as "hard" as it was in TBC (vanilla leveling, gearing etc was too slow).
• Went back to the vanilla/TBC talent system but kept dual spec and maybe glyphs.
• Remove flying mounts (they pretty much killed world PvP) and remove alot of the portals, if you want to travel somewhere it should force you to get out in the world, not stand in a capital and press a portal.
• Remove reforge and transmog, it took away alot of the feeling of getting new gear, i also hate not being able to see who has good/bad gear.
• Drastically lowered the dps, healing and stat numbers, TBC numbers were good.
• Implemented raid attunements again, maybe not as long/hard as they were in vanilla, but something.
• Keep 20 (or 25) man raids but go back to only having one or two raid difficulties, bosses should drop less loot as well (2-3 items).
• Add more content (like TBC) and let each expansion last longer.

DONT LIKE LFD ??? DONT USE IT
DONT LIKE FLYING ??? DONT USE IT

And why the fuck are so many of your kind too stupid to understand that Flying did not kill anything... you wanna know what killed your precious little Ganking world pvp ?? BATTLEGROUNDS
old talents ??? Oh yeah lets bring back the super gamechanging Talent trees where you have 50 Talents that increases your Ifuckingsuck Skill by 1-5% NICE i want that back

You People claim to have played Vanilla.. yet you fail so hard on WHY it was "good" (it wasnt btw that good)

Infracted

[Deleted]

I and many others would definitely quit over these changes.

I don't think many would, the amount of subscribers were actually higher vanilla-wotlk than what they were (are) cata-wod.

you're asking to make the game boring

Boring?! Did you play in vanilla/tbc? It wasn't boring, it was epic, challenging and rewarding.

I'd suggest it be a "solo view" thing, so you can transmog to whatever you want, but it only appears to you that way. If other players want, they can toggle "Transmogs On/Off" in their interface options.

That's actually a better alternative than removing it completely.

[Sabever]

DONT LIKE LFD ??? DONT USE IT
DONT LIKE FLYING ??? DONT USE IT

And why the fuck are so many of your kind too stupid to understand that Flying did not kill anything... you wanna know what killed your precious little Ganking world pvp ?? BATTLEGROUNDS
old talents ??? Oh yeah lets bring back the super gamechanging Talent trees where you have 50 Talents that increases your Ifuckingsuck Skill by 1-5% NICE i want that back

You People claim to have played Vanilla.. yet you fail so hard on WHY it was "good" (it wasnt btw that good)

After over 1200 pages some people still don't get it. these changes took people out of the world. Sure I can ignore it but other don't. But others don't. The problem is they took the people out of the world for me to interact with. 1200 pages and yous till don't get that it was teh WORLD of warcraft that brought everyone to the game. Not the que from inside a capital of warcraft.

[Deleted]

Some (of many) changes that i would like to see in the retail -> 

I agree with all of your points. A few further thoughts:

• Instead of removing flying mounts, I would make them 50% speed with a fatigue mechanic. You could continuously fly for a few minutes -- enough to hop over a mountain/obstacle or reach a location unreachable via ground -- but you would travel long distances on the ground. Maybe also have ground mounts 100% speed on roads, and 60% off the roads. The idea is to get away from the immersion breaking travel where you just hop on your flying mount, point it to the right direction, and hit auto-run. Travel should be significant factor in an MMORPG with a huge world.

• Instead of completely getting rid of the LFR/normal/heroic modes, I would keep the current system for a couple of main story raids of the xpac. I would have LFR drop greens, normal blues, and heroic blue/epic mix.

• I would introduce completely separate TBC style mythic dungeons and raids. Only one difficulty (hard), one size (25), no cross realm, no grouping tools, completely separate gear progression (so LFR/normal/heroic gear doesn't interfere with the progress), attunements (personal and guild) to every dungeon and raid, having to kill the final boss of a previous instance before being able to enter the next one, etc.

[Dormie]

DONT LIKE LFD ??? DONT USE IT
DONT LIKE FLYING ??? DONT USE IT

lol that's not how things work.

[Deleted]

Ofc Blizz won't do so, I dun want it to happen either, but I find this kind of scenario quite hilarious

At the end, the ambassadors of legacy would become the ambassadors of handcuffs.

That actually would be justified. And not blizzard actively encouraging other piracy realms to go public and announce that they hope for a invite to Blizzard HQ to have tea and cookies with Mr. Morhaime as well.

Thats actually a tutorial about "how not to protect your ip"..

[Concequence]

I personally don't have a problem with Vanilla, I'm just poking fun at the equally exaggerated recollections people use as evidence of Vanilla's unequivocal greatness.

Vanilla had some things today's game doesn't have. Among some of those other bad things you mentioned of course. Vanilla wow had a lot of focus on the pre-raid game, in a way that today's game largely ignores, you move past it so quickly it's not even really a thing. I remember the days when that gear that had STR and INT was used by Shamans... who could tank. Used to be fun to play with my friends, and we would do some absolutely impossible things these days... It was fun having my two shaman friends tanking DM tribute runs, with my rogue as dps. And because getting to raids wasn't everything back then, this was actually a lot of fun, and others often wanted to join us.

The server world events were something to this day I feel were a terrible thing to change so drastically. I understand the load on the servers was heavy, but something the War Effort really brought the servers together in way that's just never going to be accepted by the game today. People are lazy and want things handed to them, let alone throw in a couple stacks of anything for little to no benefit to yourself, just so your sever could open the gates. Events like Eranikus... that were just pure chaos to be present for. That will never happen again, I mean it downed some servers things got so out of hand. Like the shades, there were like tons of them everywhere. And as more spawned, more people died spawning more. I remember people dragging the world dragons into Org... and laughing as there were mushrooms EVERYWHERE. Lowbies would fly in, die and the flight master had so many mushrooms around it, it was so funny. That's never going to be possible again.

Experiencing those kind of random and in some way's bugged events. Things were people used the mechanics the DEVs didnt really think out too clearly to bring chaos to life in the game.

I mean besides the other interesting and unique things that are not in the game anymore, Vanilla had a lot of hours of entertainment in it. And newer players will never get to see any of that. Lucky them they also don't have to deal with the crashes, and Boss bugs, that would cause entire raid locks to be wasted, and other things that were not so good, but the other thing is they will never know the Support that the game got back then, I honestly talked to dev's who stepped in to actually fix bugs for us while we raided. Now that only happens to world first guilds... no one else is that important anymore. Back then anyone raiding was seen as worth their time. That was really something that made me feel like Blizzard was the best. Even if the servers crashed, and things got broken sometimes.

So yeah. Vanilla was not perfect, it lacks a lot of the convenience of today's game, but also it also had an aura and charm about it the game has largely lost since those days. I think Nostalrius had that charm again, or so many people would not have been playing it.

[Rampant Rabbit]

1) You're buying a license, not the game itself, so it's whatever they say the license goes to.
2) To play Legion, I literally only have to buy base WoW (The license to use WoW at all) and Legion (The license to play Legion)

So buying WoW + its latest expansion gives you access to all previous expansions as well now? This wasn't the case when I used to play afaik, but ok. Fair enough.

- - - Updated - - -

New players are free to do it all. And they're the ones that the leveling content is catered for in the end. Experienced players can't really decide how new players should be playing based on their own personal feeling of being jaded.

I'm simply stating that I don't believe that the current new players are getting their money's worth in the leveling content. It simply goes too fast.

Naturally, there are multiple zones with the same lvl range, which is where you have to decide where you wish to level up. That's fine. What isn't fine however is when you finish say, a 15-20 zone, you'll be lvl 25 or higher, which means that the 20-25 zone would be too easy to be entertaining.

[Deleted]

Most absurd thing i read this week, but i don't know why i still get surprised on MMO-C, and shit like this doesn't get moderated, ok then.

Please elaborate. I accendentally clicked the "Reply" instead of "Reply with quote" button.

I was referrign to a post that literally argued that WoW needs to be dumbed down and idiot-friendly because otherwise LITERALLY handicapped people. I can see that, without this context, my post would seem pretty inappropriate. Sorry for that.

edit:

There are different grades of handicapp, the people that are given praise and encouragement for simple things (to others) are PROBABLY the ones that flourish from it.

My cousin is handicapped in that she lacks a chromosome, she loves getting praise and positive attention yet can't perform at the same level of other children. She's given simpler task, but no less praise.

Here is the post I replied to. And I stand by my point that "not excluding" disabled people is not the same as "bogging everything down to a pace and difficulty that a literally mentally retarded person can win".

There are games (and other hobbies) for people with disabilities. They don't need to get stuff that isn't made for them dumbed down until it is.

- - - Updated - - -

I assume the Nost staff is made up of people from programming careers, not creative. I don't think Blizz is looking for actual suggestions from them on how to design the game.

They did run a wildly popular realm, tho. My guess is that Blizzard thinks - and I couldn't blame them - that the Nost guys have a grasp at what people drives to these realms. What are they trying to find in classic that is no longer there in the current game?

Whether or not Nost statt actually has the competence to answer this is another question.

I agree with your notions on Pristine Servers, tho. It's not a simple switch.