1. #5621
    Quote Originally Posted by Annesh View Post
    @Theed

    For The Void 5, I had an idea for a sequence you could do, although unfortunately I'm not sure exactly how it could be done or whether it would be worth it for you. It seems like it would be a lot of work.

    The idea is to take one or more duels with a melee class and break it down into specific moments and sequences, pausing to explain the shadowpriest's thought process and options in the fight, carefully and meticulously showing how limited our options are. Afterwards, make the point that we understand the design concept of a class with a lot of group support options but that is designed with said vulnerabilities and relies on teammates for heals and peels - and that we'd like the option to talent away or give up one or more of those group utilities for better personal defense/escape tools so we can solo better.

    Anyway, you asked someone if they had any input on what they'd like to see in your next PvP video. A sequence like that would make me very happy, although if it's too big of a pain in the ass that's fine too, I'll just be happy to watch more of your content.
    I like that idea and it will be no problem to edit. But english is not my native language and it might sound weird. Maybe I'll need someone to "voice act" that part.
    <inactive>

  2. #5622
    Honestly, you could get away with a blurb of text and just list out what you do.

  3. #5623
    Quote Originally Posted by Kretan View Post
    I don't think the issue is that they don't understand these limitations or know where and why they exist. To me these limitations are 100% intentional and designed by them. The designers are likely hyper-aware of the facts this idea would spell out.... The issue is that you would be making a video showing them exactly what they designed shadow priest to be.

    I don't think people give the developers enough credit at times for how aware they are of their own design. I think people mistake silence for ignorance.
    The current dev team is very ignorant. Things like the recent burning determination (30 sec immunity to interrupts after getting interrupted) or Imprison of DHs should never have left the drawing board. On the one side they implement so many stupid things but at the same time they don't change anything with huge flaws like the Shadow PvP tree or the melee pvp situation.

    A feedback video doesn't need to say "You are wrong" to the devs. It needs to provide feedback, how we think about that situation and why. They don't think everything they do is perfect. They do listen to feedback more than ever before. That's why we need to provide even more feedback.
    <inactive>

  4. #5624
    Quote Originally Posted by Annesh View Post
    Did you see this part of the post?--->

    That's kind of the ultimate point of the sequence, and yes I think the developers underestimate just how hard we're countered by these specs.
    I saw that, and what I am saying is that I don't think that level of effort to be put in to a video is going to have a huge effect because it just shows the developers exactly what they intend and already know. I wouldn't be so naive as to think that they don't know how hard certain classes counter us (point of debate below). I would bet a lot of money that they do know, and they are basing their design around that being the end goal; they aren't blindly throwing a spec together and hoping it brings a balanced set of strengths....they are intentionally designing in strengths and weaknesses.

    Aside form that, for that idea to work it would need to be organised 3s videos instead of duels or 2s....which really isn't realistic right now on alpha.

    Also, the point is kind of moot.....we are actually one of the stronger 1v1 specs right now aside from the classes that just chunk you for 90% of your hp in an unavoidable instant global. Our self healing is fairly dominant vs single classes. We are only really countered vs broken specs with near 1 shot ability while being very dominant against specs that don't have that ability.

    Shadow is actually one of the best specs on alpha for pvp right now. I don't get where you are saying we are hard countered by anything balanced? Rogues are likely going to be our weakness in the long run due to a lot of CC (key word weakness not hard counter), but aside from them we really don't have anything approaching a hard counter...warriors lost a lot of tools that countered us. Even against rogues between psyfiend, artifact tendril, mass dispel, dots, and channels we are an INCREDIBLE pain in the ass to them going for a restealth. If our artifact procs on them, they get to move in slow motion for 10 seconds, and nothing short of a major defensive breaks it.....heck if you catch a running rogue with psyfiend you take a major piss in their cheerios.

    We are only hard countered by classes that are broken and we are weak when in double dps 2s. Basing feedback off of that dynamic is worthless.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Djriff View Post
    Honestly, you could get away with a blurb of text and just list out what you do.
    Yeah if you do it, a text blurb would be fine imo. No need for voice acting.

  5. #5625
    One thing that I have been thinking about to help in PvP woukd be, and I already hear the screams of a million melee, to finally end melee spell pushback. In PvE it rarely has any noticeable effect at this point, and woukd alter the meta with multiple melee.

    I understand that the argument is "but healers!" They already have enough instants that pushback means little when focused.

  6. #5626
    Push back is an annoyance. I'm noticing it on archimonde since we don't have a holy pally and our disc priest is doing fire, spell pushback is very very annoying in PvE. As for PvP, it's a minimal thing IMO, ideally you're not going to be trying to cast if you have a melee on you unless you know their kick is down. I think it's fine overall, more so for shadow since we can PW: S and cast without any pushback.

  7. #5627
    I think the dev team is very "idea driven", and that they often put things out and just wait to see what happens. If we look at the design of shadow in WoD and the various changes that occured between various raid tiers, it's pretty obvious that they just pushed and pulled at the various abilities until some one thing worked. Everything else just kind of languished on the side, and was only given attention if it stuck out too much or didn't conform to various internal limits. I view the design approach as very reactive - hammer down the nails that stick up, pull out the ones that go too deep, etc..

    My wonder at making videos and so forth is whether or not they truly see it. You hope they do, but I suspect their feedback system has several filters and several layers of people before it makes it to someone "important". So you never really know if what you say makes it to them or not, or - if it does - whether it's even under the same context. Generally in game companies, there's someone responsible for compiling an abbreviated list of customer feedback. Often the detail and intent of a message can get lost in translation by the time it reaches a dev board. Your nuanced, detailed bullet-point essay-video on why shadow is weak in PVP might get summarized down to 3 words, in a list of dozens of feedback points.

    I also agree with Kretan in that sometimes they probably just look at the feedback and think, "Working as intended."
    Last edited by Kilee25; 2016-05-02 at 04:12 PM.
    "Falling from heaven is not as painful as surviving the impact."

    DPS Loss - my guild on Proudmoore
    The Old Guard - my guild on Earthen Ring
    Revenant - my guild on Echo Isles

  8. #5628
    Quote Originally Posted by Djriff View Post
    Push back is an annoyance. I'm noticing it on archimonde since we don't have a holy pally and our disc priest is doing fire, spell pushback is very very annoying in PvE. As for PvP, it's a minimal thing IMO, ideally you're not going to be trying to cast if you have a melee on you unless you know their kick is down. I think it's fine overall, more so for shadow since we can PW: S and cast without any pushback.
    I haven't done Archi on my priest. I just didn't like CoP, and went back to my hunter and rogue this expansion. Honestly, I had thought that I would, but only CoP Lite really felt "ok".

  9. #5629
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilee25 View Post
    I think the dev team is very "idea driven", and that they often put things out and just wait to see what happens. If we look at the design of shadow in WoD and the various changes that occured between various raid tiers, it's pretty obvious that they just pushed and pulled at the various abilities until some one thing worked. Everything else just kind of languished on the side, and was only given attention if it stuck out too much or didn't conform to various internal limits. I view the design approach as very reactive - hammer down the nails that stick up, pull out the ones that go too deep, etc..

    My wonder at making videos and so forth is whether or not they truly see it. You hope they do, but I suspect their feedback system has several filters and several layers of people before it makes it to someone "important". So you never really know if what you say makes it to them or not, or - if it does - whether it's even under the same context. Generally in game companies, there's someone responsible for compiling an abbreviated list of customer feedback. Often the detail and intent of a message can get lost in translation by the time it reaches a dev board. Your nuanced, detailed bullet-point essay-video on why shadow is weak in PVP might get summarized down to 3 words, in a list of dozens of feedback points.

    I also agree with Kretan in that sometimes they probably just look at the feedback and think, "Working as intended."
    Kind of an off topic aside (this really isn't an issue in this forum at all by anyone), but I think that a lot of alpha testers fashion the idea that their alpha invite is an honorary spot at the development table, and that they get a vote towards the future of the spec or game.

    In reality, the devs are just having you test out ideas so that they can vote internally amongst themselves, and they don't need to give out responses to alpha testers because they don't want the player's vote. Sometimes their opinions need play testing and feedback from players, but not so much direct input.

    I see this mostly in the high end pvp community on alpha with people like absterge who gives tons of great feedback but then turns around and makes a post heavily laced with "you aren't implementing my ideas, and you aren't responding to ME" like he's got a seat at the dev table.....some testers to me just take alpha too far in their heads of where it puts them in the development chain.

    *again this isn't aimed at anyone here

  10. #5630
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilee25 View Post
    I also agree with Kretan in that sometimes they probably just look at the feedback and think, "Working as intended."
    I'm 99% sure that's what they think when someone complains about shadow's AoE being bad.

    In reality, the devs are just having you test out ideas so that they can vote internally amongst themselves, and they don't need to give out responses to alpha testers because they don't want the player's vote. Sometimes their opinions need play testing and feedback from players, but not so much direct input.
    This is something that is also often forgotten. They're not looking for what you think the spec should be, they're looking for feedback about what they've come up with. Keeping your feedback within that scope can be hard at times, and of course there's times when it's clear that what the devs have thought of just doesn't work, but it's always important not to deviate too much from what's there already because realistically it's not going to get changed that drastically at that point. Suggesting things is fine, but realize that just because what you think is best for the spec doesn't mean that's what the devs think, or even what's considered best by the majority of the community.
    Last edited by Isentropy; 2016-05-02 at 04:38 PM.

  11. #5631
    Quote Originally Posted by Isentropy View Post
    I'm 99% sure that's what they think when someone complains about shadow's AoE being bad.
    Absolutely the same here haha. I put Nerity's post on the first page of the new official thread mostly to show that shadowcrash doesn't seem to work..like at all haha. i really really really want that spell to be worth it on AoE because of how fking cool it is.

    Regardless, it's really dense to think that they don't know our views on AoE at this point. I'm worried it would take away from other feedback because people are so hyper focused on AoE.

  12. #5632
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeriel View Post
    I haven't done Archi on my priest. I just didn't like CoP, and went back to my hunter and rogue this expansion. Honestly, I had thought that I would, but only CoP Lite really felt "ok".
    I'm not a fan of CoP, but it does some great damage. I still feel like a poor arcane mage though. Glad it's gone in legion.

  13. #5633
    Quote Originally Posted by Djriff View Post
    I'm not a fan of CoP, but it does some great damage. I still feel like a poor arcane mage though. Glad it's gone in legion.
    Same. Cop is really boring and straight forward. I hate that. We really are a poor arcane mage when it comes to Cop rotation.

    Mind spike on alpha gives me CoP PTSD, but it's not nearly as bad because a huge reliance is still dots.

  14. #5634
    Quote Originally Posted by Kretan View Post
    I already believe the dagger is my best friend. I like killing things. It likes eating killed things. This is a match made in heaven let's be honest.
    Not a fan of the skins (the first one and twisted reflections aren't bad) but I love the dagger's personality.

  15. #5635
    Quote Originally Posted by Gnarilex View Post
    Not a fan of the skins (the first one and twisted reflections aren't bad) but I love the dagger's personality.
    I can deal with the look, the personality so far really makes up for it.

  16. #5636
    Some new dagger quotes for everyone, not sure if it's been posted yet, I've been keeping up on the thread and can't recall seeing them yet (not that that's saying much!)

    Or rather, I would if it wasn't prohibited to a new poster, grrrrrrrr

    First quote is from the corrupted dragon boss in the corrupted dream dungeon, can't for the life of me remember it's name...
    "A corrupted corpse of a dragon... How dangerous could that be?"

    Second is walking over the ruins in the water in Azsuna
    "The Legion burrows deep here. If they burrow deeper, they may not like what they find"

    Sorry for the lack of images, I can PM them to someone if they wish.

  17. #5637
    Quote Originally Posted by Djriff View Post
    I can deal with the look, the personality so far really makes up for it.
    Same thing here. It really isn't a great skin, but the personality of it for me is what draws me in. it's kind of like Ashbringer in that I think the sword is ugly as sin, but the story behind it makes the ugly as sin look so much more palatable.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyrri View Post
    Some new dagger quotes for everyone, not sure if it's been posted yet, I've been keeping up on the thread and can't recall seeing them yet (not that that's saying much!)

    Or rather, I would if it wasn't prohibited to a new poster, grrrrrrrr

    First quote is from the corrupted dragon boss in the corrupted dream dungeon, can't for the life of me remember it's name...
    "A corrupted corpse of a dragon... How dangerous could that be?"

    Second is walking over the ruins in the water in Azsuna
    "The Legion burrows deep here. If they burrow deeper, they may not like what they find"

    Sorry for the lack of images, I can PM them to someone if they wish.
    I'm 95% sure those are new. It's ones like that second quote that make me go =O

  18. #5638
    Quote Originally Posted by Gnarilex View Post
    Not a fan of the skins (the first one and twisted reflections aren't bad) but I love the dagger's personality.
    I like PvP skin and Twisted Reflection. Though we do not know its source.

    This means that I will PvP some in Legion even though I hate it. (Side note: several artifacts best skins are PvP. Why????)
    Last edited by Aeriel; 2016-05-02 at 04:57 PM.

  19. #5639
    The thing is though, how often are you going to be actually looking at your dagger? Like as far as looks go, I rarely if ever focus on my weapon, usually it's my action bar or everything else but my character.

  20. #5640
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeriel View Post
    I like PvP skin and Twisted Reflection. Though we do not know its source.

    This means that I will PvP some in Legion even though I hate it. (Side note: several artifacts best skins are PvP. Why????)
    I am so sad that I like the prestige 13 skin. FML

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •