Why Soul Leech over Harvest Life for Affliction pve?

[Deleted]

Can someone explain it to me, why the majority of Affliction locks take Soul Leech for raiding? While in PvP most of them go for Harvest Life + Glyph of DL.
I mean with talented and glyphed Drain Life i can heal myself to full in a very short time, so i don't understand why should i drop such a strong self heal and replace it with much weaker shield, which is obviously only good for Destro spec?

I don't have in mind mythic raiding, btw

[Ghormus]

Because you never use Drain Life for PvE. It does sub-par damage and if you have to self-heal yourself to full then you're not respecting mechanics.

[Deleted]

Well, i didn't mean to heal self to full, i'm not that bad ... But in some cases, for an casual player as i am, it looks very strong choice. I don't care, if i loose like 0.5% -1% dps, if i use Drain Life occasionally, like ... i don't know, every minute or so, maybe twice in a row. Just use it here and there, when my health drops and i can't count on healers ... + i love it visually and thematically.

It would be weird to never use one of our most fun and important spells just because of some non important dps loose. I want to have fun in this game and i really don't care about being on top of dmg matters ... As i said, i don't care about mythic raiding ...

[Deleted]

Don't ask questions if you "don't care" about the answer.

[Ghormus]

Drain Life isn't an important ability, it has very weak scaling and applications in both PvP and PvE in terms of raw damage, perhaps it could save your life once every blue moon in arenas but you're meant to be able to communicate with your healers no? You're not losing 0.5 - 1% DPS either. You're losing all of your DPS so I wouldn't call that non important.

[Gaidax]

If you don't care, then pick it up... You got your answer, it's damage is shit and every second you spend draining you spend doing subpar damage. Soul Leech, on the other hand, is passive and does not cost damage.

Hell, you may as well go ahead and auto attack targets with your staff for what it's worth - it's your choice really, but it won't be optimal, which is the whole point. Your character, do whatever you want really.

[Deleted]

Don't be rude. I said that i don't care if i loose about 1% dmg for using this talent. English is not my native language, so you might misunderstand me. What i want to say is: if i use Drain Life few times per boss fight, that shouldn't reduce my average dps for a noticeable amount.
I'm not a hardcore player so i don't understand why is it such a big deal if i go with Drain Life glyph and talent? How can i loose more than 1 or 2% dmg if i use Drain Life five or six or even ten times per boss fight? I don't spam it like Drain Soul filler, just when i really need to and only in LFR.

Don't ask questions if you "don't care" about the answer.

I don't care about stupid answers and trolling. And i don't care about answers from hardcore players who only care how to increase their dmg for 0.00001%. So hardcore players, don't answer in this topic, please

What you all want to say is: pick only talents that increases your dmg, and avoid "more fun" talent choices, right? So why then we have to chose them? Why Blizzard made Talents for pve, if we only have one option in each tier?

[Uzkin]

You got your answer: pve people care about optimizing dps and for that Harvest Life is sub-optimal. Thus, they choose Soul Leech. You, however, are free to choose whatever talent you wish and find fun if you don't care about optimization.

[Sylar Hao]

I feel he alredy knew the answer before asking. But anyways:

Short answer: Drain Life = stop dps'ing.

[Locknrollen]

Don't be rude. I said that i don't care if i loose about 1% dmg for using this talent. English is not my native language, so you might misunderstand me. What i want to say is: if i use Drain Life few times per boss fight, that shouldn't reduce my average dps for a noticeable amount.
I'm not a hardcore player so i don't understand why is it such a big deal if i go with Drain Life glyph and talent? How can i loose more than 1 or 2% dmg if i use Drain Life five or six or even ten times per boss fight? I don't spam it like Drain Soul filler, just when i really need to and only in LFR.


I don't care about stupid answers and trolling. And i don't care about answers from hardcore players who only care how to increase their dmg for 0.00001%. So hardcore players, don't answer in this topic, please

What you all want to say is: pick only talents that increases your dmg, and avoid "more fun" talent choices, right? So why then we have to chose them? Why Blizzard made Talents for pve, if we only have one option in each tier?

You got your answer, accept it.
And do the math instead of guessing numbers.

[xuros]

Don't be rude. I said that i don't care if i loose about 1% dmg for using this talent. English is not my native language, so you might misunderstand me. What i want to say is: if i use Drain Life few times per boss fight, that shouldn't reduce my average dps for a noticeable amount.
I'm not a hardcore player so i don't understand why is it such a big deal if i go with Drain Life glyph and talent? How can i loose more than 1 or 2% dmg if i use Drain Life five or six or even ten times per boss fight? I don't spam it like Drain Soul filler, just when i really need to and only in LFR.


I don't care about stupid answers and trolling. And i don't care about answers from hardcore players who only care how to increase their dmg for 0.00001%. So hardcore players, don't answer in this topic, please

What you all want to say is: pick only talents that increases your dmg, and avoid "more fun" talent choices, right? So why then we have to chose them? Why Blizzard made Talents for pve, if we only have one option in each tier?

You will lose more than 1% damage if you take it and use drain life to heal yourself when you could be using drain soul to do real damage.

[Deleted]

I feel he alredy knew the answer before asking. But anyways:

Short answer: Drain Life = stop dps'ing.

If that logic persists, that means no more Ice Block for Mages = stop dps-ing, no more Dispersion for Shadow Priest, Deterance for Hunters, Recuperate/Feint for Rogues because of energy cost for non dps ability and so on.
Sorry guys, but i would like to stay alive. If i'm close to dead and healers are occupied and Drain Life could save me, then i see no reason why don't use it over drain soul and loose a bit of my dps for that couple of seconds?

Drain Life is not stop dps-ing ... DoTs and Haunt are still on the target, they just tick for a bit less over Drain Life channel duration, while Mages and Priests really stop DPSing during their defensive CDs ... You want to convince me, that Drain Life when used occasionally, means a huge dmg lost, while we all know this is not true.

Thanks for your replies anyway, i will give Soul Leech a try ...

[Halwyn]

If that logic persists, that means no more Ice Block for Mages = stop dps-ing, no more Dispersion for Shadow Priest, Deterance for Hunters, Recuperate/Feint for Rogues because of energy cost for non dps ability and so on.
Sorry guys, but i would like to stay alive. If i'm close to dead and healers are occupied and Drain Life could save me, then i see no reason why don't use it over drain soul and loose a bit of my dps for that couple of seconds?

Drain Life is not stop dps-ing ... DoTs and Haunt are still on the target, they just tick for a bit less over Drain Life channel duration, while Mages and Priests really stop DPSing during their defensive CDs ... You want to convince me, that Drain Life when used occasionally, means a huge dmg lost, while we all know this is not true.

Thanks for your replies anyway, i will give Soul Leech a try ...

If you're in the situation when Drain life is saving you - you're clearly playing an encounter wrong. Between the T45 talents and Soul Leech there isn't ANY unavoidable spikes of damage than you cant survive even on Mythic, the only exeption being the Edict. And if you did dip that low - it's your fault alone for sucking at mechanics and wasting healer's mana

Also. It's WoD out there. Best way to ease the healer's job - kill the boss faster.

[Deleted]

The main reason why people take Soul Leech over drain life is dps.
The other reason is because people usually do not have any trouble staying above 60+ % health in encounters in HFC (Edicts on Velhari as the major exception, but even then you should be fine)

So even if you are a casual player, if your health dips below 30% you are either (a. Standing in fire (avoidable damage and such) (b. out of range of the healers (TERRIBLE positioning from either you or the healers) or (c. You have terrible healers that go OOM after the first minute of the boss or only care about healing the tank.

This is why proper affliction warlocks, even quite a big part of the casual side, takes soul leech over drain life.

Also, almost forgot, Soul leech is passive and is therefore also quite noob-friendly. So a lot of new players also choose this talent out for its ease of use.

Last but not least: If you are really a casual and are NOT required to squeeze out as much dps as you can, the you are free to take Drain Life! If you are however more concerned about squeezing out more dps and/or are required to do so by the raid leader, than go Soul Leech.

[xuros]

If that logic persists, that means no more Ice Block for Mages = stop dps-ing, no more Dispersion for Shadow Priest, Deterance for Hunters, Recuperate/Feint for Rogues because of energy cost for non dps ability and so on.
Sorry guys, but i would like to stay alive. If i'm close to dead and healers are occupied and Drain Life could save me, then i see no reason why don't use it over drain soul and loose a bit of my dps for that couple of seconds?

Drain Life is not stop dps-ing ... DoTs and Haunt are still on the target, they just tick for a bit less over Drain Life channel duration, while Mages and Priests really stop DPSing during their defensive CDs ... You want to convince me, that Drain Life when used occasionally, means a huge dmg lost, while we all know this is not true.

Thanks for your replies anyway, i will give Soul Leech a try ...

Sounds like you need better healers. You were given the obvious reasons why to NOT take it. If you dont agree stop arguing because it just makes you and your guilds healers look bad. If you need to read the answer again just scroll up.

Also to be honest man, even in mythics knowing how to move out of crap saves your life and using a pot/healthstone will do more to save you than doing shit dps and making the fight last LONGER and FORCE your healers to be bad even more than they have to.

[zvvl]

Drain life is worthless when raiding. You lose a lot of DPS by channeling Drain Life over Drain Soul. There is no mechanic in the game that you will need to outheal with Drain Life that it becomes worth losing the DPS and passive damage absorb for the rest of the fight.

[Ghormus]

I feel like we're getting meme'd here.

[Belloc]

OP: When it comes to keeping yourself alive, your responsibilities include avoiding damage from encounter mechanics and using health stones when low. Beyond those two things, it's 100% your healers' responsibility to keep you alive. If your healers can't handle it, then it becomes your raid's responsibility to deal with fixing your healing situation. Your responsibility is to maximize damage output while minimizing damage input. Sacrificing your DPS for self-healing is not your responsibility. Talents should be picked accordingly.

If you're playing as a "casual" (in other words, you're not willing to actively research your class enough to reach your full potential), then it doesn't matter because your progress doesn't matter. You can pick whatever talents you want and let the rest of the raid deal with your reduced damage. If, however, you actually want to be an effective member of the raid, then start researching how your class is played and what the most effective talents are. Play your role, not the healers'.

[Sylar Hao]

If that logic persists, that means no more Ice Block for Mages = stop dps-ing, no more Dispersion for Shadow Priest, Deterance for Hunters, Recuperate/Feint for Rogues because of energy cost for non dps ability and so on.
Sorry guys, but i would like to stay alive. If i'm close to dead and healers are occupied and Drain Life could save me, then i see no reason why don't use it over drain soul and loose a bit of my dps for that couple of seconds?

Drain Life is not stop dps-ing ... DoTs and Haunt are still on the target, they just tick for a bit less over Drain Life channel duration, while Mages and Priests really stop DPSing during their defensive CDs ... You want to convince me, that Drain Life when used occasionally, means a huge dmg lost, while we all know this is not true.

Thanks for your replies anyway, i will give Soul Leech a try ...

But you shouldn't watch what other classes tools are. You must be selfish as a player in terms of what's better for you. Also things are usually balanced around what you can and you can't do.
Also, bear in mind that the shield will prevent a big chunk of damage, allowing healers to react better knowing that warlocks usually are tankier than other dps classes and that you will most likely survive what others won't. If you don't take Soul Leech you are forcing healers to also react to heal you more often, forcing more mana usage. Also you may find the need to use Unending Resolve to survive something that Soul Leech would have mitigated, potentially wasting your main defensive tool for critical moments.

Nobody is forcing you to use Soul Leech, but we are giving you the answer to your question and you still aren't convinced, so... there's no much more we can say.

[ThePhantombox]

If that logic persists, that means no more Ice Block for Mages = stop dps-ing, no more Dispersion for Shadow Priest, Deterance for Hunters, Recuperate/Feint for Rogues because of energy cost for non dps ability and so on.
Sorry guys, but i would like to stay alive. If i'm close to dead and healers are occupied and Drain Life could save me, then i see no reason why don't use it over drain soul and loose a bit of my dps for that couple of seconds?

Drain Life is not stop dps-ing ... DoTs and Haunt are still on the target, they just tick for a bit less over Drain Life channel duration, while Mages and Priests really stop DPSing during their defensive CDs ... You want to convince me, that Drain Life when used occasionally, means a huge dmg lost, while we all know this is not true.

Thanks for your replies anyway, i will give Soul Leech a try ...

I'm gonna make this REAL simple for you: