Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Eliseus]

But there is no predictable game design decision to manage that. You act as if blizzard just would have to do what you want them to do to become successfull again.

Yes, i would like them to try other paradigms as well. Yes, i would like them to adress the broad audience even more.

But am i able to predict it will be a success?

No i am not. And you arent also.

Because YOU don't know, doesn't mean there isn't data to make an educated guess based off of.

[Namalia]

Horribly biased, and posted multiple times...

The most important thing in an MMO is a lack of exclusion and a lot of inclusion.

This is a much better video.

[Deleted]

Because YOU don't know, doesn't mean there isn't data to make an educated guess based off of.

YOU dont know the data as well. Still you act as if you know that legacy realms would be very successfull.

[Eliseus]

YOU dont know the data as well. Still you act as if you know that legacy realms would be very successfull.

No, but based off all available knowledge of the success of not just Nostalgia in the video game industry, but based off the success of other MMOs, it will succeed. Whether they do it now, or later. Later usually indicates more success, but given the want of it now, there is a push to try and get it now, rather than later.

You on the other-hand are using NO sources or anything at all to use your opinion that we are all wrong and it will crash and burn. You don't like being wrong. I understand.

[Gavan]

But there is no predictable game design decision to manage that. You act as if blizzard just would have to do what you want them to do to become successfull again.

Yes, i would like them to try other paradigms as well. Yes, i would like them to adress the broad audience even more.

But am i able to predict it will be a success?

No i am not. And you arent also.

There are a certain number of set marketable points that are relative to the related success of MMOs and other video games.

1) Nostalgia feel. This relates to an existing IP. Many people will buy it, thinking that it's like previous games that they enjoyed. It's the reason Mario, Metriod, CoD, FF, ect. do so well, regardless of the quality of the game. This is more related to the initial sales on release day, but it's a core design and marketing factor. I believe WoD had quite a bit of this.
2) Core game play. This relates to a specific genre of game play. EQ style, WoW theme park, action combat, hardcore, etc. are MMO descriptors that are rather common. For instance, Wildstar had a combination of action combat, hardcore, and theme park that proved to be unsuccessful, they were also the first ones to try something at that level. General video games also fit into genre or style sections; platforming, Metriodvania, etc. are games that are still popular today and can do quite well. (See Shovel Knight.)


When you link the success of WoD with the concepts that people are looking for from Nost, you realize that it's not just the IP or QoL enhancements that sell new iterations of games. It's also story, core game play, etc. WoD was hyped a bit as a return to WoW's roots. (Which it was not) Story wise, yea, they crow bared a horrible story line into the game that wasn't needed at all and returned the game to that level.
But at the end of the day, the core game play and social aspects remained current, which is what a lot of people are looking for more than just WoW.

[Deleted]

No, but based off all available knowledge of the success of not just Nostalgia in the video game industry, but based off the success of other MMOs, it will succeed. Whether they do it now, or later. Later usually indicates more success, but given the want of it now, there is a push to try and get it now, rather than later.

You act as if you had any data while you.. still.. dont have any data. Do you know what the best argument is in this?

"I want legacy realms because i think it would be fun to play the old versions of WoW!"

THATS actually a good argumentation. And not numbers you pull out of the air.

You on the other-hand are using NO sources or anything at all to use your opinion that we are all wrong and it will crash and burn. You don't like being wrong. I understand.

I argument my opinion. And compared to you i know that it is my opinion. And my opinion is that legacy realms, in special pristine realms, will not adress the players that played on Nostralgius (thats the theory, and now: the argument!), as they would like to play classic realms, and not free-of-any-convenience-realms as like Blizzard plans them.

So no, i dont think that pristine realms will be successfull.

[Eapoe]

Is it just me or does anyone else want to see all threads locked for, say, 3 weeks. The only thing accessible is a thread where Legacy, Flight, and content is discussed. For some reason, the idea of all these people meeting and discussing seems like it would be hilarious. Is there any way to do that?
Just the fact of what people are asking and arguing for or against would become so much more focused.

[TCGamer]

Horribly biased, and posted multiple times...

The most important thing in an MMO is a lack of exclusion and a lot of inclusion.

This is a much better video.

This is pretty much spot-on.

[Eliseus]

Oh, I know it's my opinion, but I'm basing it on what we have available to us. 250k signatures and other MMOs succeeding. Keep putting your fingers in your ears and yelling these other MMOs don't exist and people haven't provided with them, but they do.

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Is it just me or does anyone else want to see all threads locked for, say, 3 weeks. The only thing accessible is a thread where Legacy, Flight, and content is discussed. For some reason, the idea of all these people meeting and discussing seems like it would be hilarious. Is there any way to do that?
Just the fact of what people are asking and arguing for or against would become so much more focused.

I would like a thread where you and the likes aren't aloud to post your negativity in it. If we could get that would be golden in trying to get more actual feedback to be presented.

[TCGamer]

Oh, I know it's my opinion, but I'm basing it on what we have available to us. 250k signatures and other MMOs succeeding. Keep putting your fingers in your ears and yelling these other MMOs don't exist and people haven't provided with them, but they do.

250k signatures with no guarantee that any of them are genuine, as people can sign it multiple times and even sign it trolling. So, those numbers are invalid as solid proof. Other MMOs that are "succeeding" are ones that have things like LFD/LFR in them. So, that's another point that is invalidated.

Next?

[Deleted]

Horrible ideas. All but the last one.

For the ones that want's to get everything handed to them without putting in some work, yes, for the rest, no.

[Deleted]

1) Nostalgia feel. This relates to an existing IP. Many people will buy it, thinking that it's like previous games that they enjoyed. It's the reason Mario, Metriod, CoD, FF, ect. do so well, regardless of the quality of the game. This is more related to the initial sales on release day, but it's a core design and marketing factor. I believe WoD had quite a bit of this.

The problem is that the nostalgia feeling currently is hyped. What happens, if the hype is over?

But at the end of the day, the core game play and social aspects remained current, which is what a lot of people are looking for more than just WoW.

I believe (and yes, thats just my opinion), that people want like to feel the "first time" of playing MMORPGs again. Which is differernt, as people started in different games and expacs. And for this feeling, people would even remove everything that was added since then, in the hope they get back their initial experience.

The problem is.. that will just not happen. As the player evolved in playing the game, knowing the general mechanics in all details already. I think that the developers should try to evolve the game, and not try to return to old times.. They should add novelty, and not redo the old content. It's too early for that, as people still expect new stories and gameplay from the existing game.

[Eliseus]

250k signatures with no guarantee that any of them are genuine, as people can sign it multiple times and even sign it trolling. So, those numbers are invalid as solid proof. Other MMOs that are "succeeding" are ones that have things like LFD/LFR in them. So, that's another point that is invalidated.

Next?

Until it can either be proven otherwise I'll keep my views to what the facts show. Your multiple signing has been debunked so many times its hilarious it's still being used. Made a new account just to stop being blasted on your main or did you get banned? Anyways, not only does change.org have spam detection and things that you claim, but the numbers would of kept growing at the speed they were if that were true.

Did you just next something without any proof to your claims? Lmao this is fun.

[Eapoe]

Oh, I know it's my opinion, but I'm basing it on what we have available to us. 250k signatures and other MMOs succeeding. Keep putting your fingers in your ears and yelling these other MMOs don't exist and people haven't provided with them, but they do.

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I would like a thread where you and the likes aren't aloud to post your negativity in it. If we could get that would be golden in trying to get more actual feedback to be presented.

How is anything I or Rym have posted negative? Because it doesn't agree with your views 100%? You ask for proof to which we link numbers and make statements along the lines of "we don't know, it's Blizzard's decision, you can't prove that it will be worthwhile over the long term to justify them doing it." To which you've replied "I know because we have 250k sigs that want a Legacy realm (not stating being paid for or for how long it would last), it's Blizzard's decision but here's why it's wrong for them to decide anything that goes against my reasoning, we all know it would be profitable."
You have one group (the group is both sides) looking at things and discussing them logically and calmly, and you have another group doing the exact same thing they are claiming another side of doing while maintaining they are proving said group wrong. There's been very little negativity, and the complete lack of anything negative in my last post you quoted shows that you are truly operating on a different level than some other people posting here.

[Dormie]

You people act like a Vanilla realm would have to succeed as a game in itself. That's like putting the same expectations on LFR or Pet Battles.


Anyways, this whole conversation is over. There's nothing to discuss. People want Vanilla servers, you don't, deal with it. There's really not much that's debatable.

Horribly biased, and posted multiple times...

The most important thing in an MMO is a lack of exclusion and a lot of inclusion.

This is a much better video.

Biased? More like honest.

K then let's go ahead and switch the ratio. Let's make 2% easy faceroll content and 98% competent person with half a brain content.

And sorry, when your videos whole thing is based about judging some nameless people and spouting opinions, you really don't have a point. He's using the same tired arguments that people here are. "QQ it's gonna steal development resources". lol what? the game is made, there's very little to develop and even less to upkeep.

[Eliseus]

The problem is that the nostalgia feeling currently is hyped. What happens, if the hype is over?

The same thing as WoD.

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How is anything I or Rym have posted negative? Because it doesn't agree with your views 100%? You ask for proof to which we link numbers and make statements along the lines of "we don't know, it's Blizzard's decision, you can't prove that it will be worthwhile over the long term to justify them doing it." To which you've replied "I know because we have 250k sigs that want a Legacy realm (not stating being paid for or for how long it would last), it's Blizzard's decision but here's why it's wrong for them to decide anything that goes against my reasoning, we all know it would be profitable."
You have one group (the group is both sides) looking at things and discussing them logically and calmly, and you have another group doing the exact same thing they are claiming another side of doing while maintaining they are proving said group wrong. There's been very little negativity, and the complete lack of anything negative in my last post you quoted shows that you are truly operating on a different level than some other people posting here.

Show me one of these linked numbers or get out of the tread with the proof you supposedly keep providing. You have been arguing since almost day 1 of this with me and have no provided anything. Let's not start stating all the stuff that you have provided. Provided what exactly. You have proof this would fail? Show it.

[TCGamer]

Until it can either be proven otherwise I'll keep my views to what the facts show. Your multiple signing has been debunked so many times its hilarious it's still being used. Made a new account just to stop being blasted on your main or did you get banned? Anyways, not only does change.org have spam detection and things that you claim, but the numbers would of kept growing at the speed they were if that were true.

Did you just next something without any proof to your claims? Lmao this is fun.

You aren't presenting any credible proof yourself, so your arguments have zero weight on their own.

You're right, it is fun debunking the arguments of someone that provides zero CREDIBLE proof. LMAO.

Your move, sparky.

[Eliseus]

You aren't presenting any credible proof yourself, so your arguments have zero weight on their own.

You're right, it is fun debunking the arguments of someone that provides zero CREDIBLE proof. LMAO.

Your move, sparky.

You're right, the MMOs that have done this are fake. Move along.

[Saucerian]

The release of legion and the months following will show how many people "mobile phone WoW" can retain.

The game had its peak concurrent players in LK. WoW vets want the Classic-LK era back. WoD proved it with what unfortunately proved to be a colossal bait-and-switch.

Shame on us if we are fooled twice by Legion.

At some point a threshold will be crossed where it would be no less profitable to tap that market of WoW vets with legacy servers (or at least a version of the current game with similar challenging and community oriented design), as opposed to the shrinking market of new players with ever more dumbed down gameplay.

[TCGamer]

You people act like a Vanilla realm would have to succeed as a game in itself. That's like putting the same expectations on LFR or Pet Battles.


Anyways, this whole conversation is over. There's nothing to discuss. People want Vanilla servers, you don't, deal with it. There's really not much that's debatable.


Biased? More like honest.

K then let's go ahead and switch the ratio. Let's make 2% easy faceroll content and 98% competent person with half a brain content.

Faceroll content is preferable to non-faceroll content because more people can be included. Mythic dungeons/raids are all that is needed for the "hardcore" crowd. They don't like it, they can go play a "hardcore" MMO. If they can find one. (Most are in Korea)