Preach Ranks Legion Tanks. (Tanking in Legion is Bad?)

[TheEaterofSouls]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q1pnYLVCTE

So preach just released a video where he ranks the tanks in legion based on what they currently play like on Legion Alpha. It worries me alittle bit. Some of the specs he rates as incredible boring and really really bad. He mentions how some tanks have very little control over anything and how some of the specs have been reduced to an incredibly boring playstyle. What do you guys think? Is tanking all doom and gloom currently on the beta? Do you agree or disagree with his ranking? For the prot pally in particular, he mentions how if he was asked if it was a good evolution to the class, he'd tell the designer to stop making games. With the removal of holy power, the spec is basically just flat damage spells that mean nothing.

[Manabomb]

I'm not entirely certain on the other tanking classes, but I know for a fact that Blizzard has completely destroyed BRM to the realm of unfun for literally anyone that enjoyed it in MoP. Their new design philosophy is just plain and simple boring. A lot of the power BRM once had for self sufficiency are all but destroyed and the new active mitigation models put all the power on the healer.

In general tanks are going to play a lot like vaniller and TBC in the sense that their abilities and active mitigation beyond extreme cooldowns are pretty lackluster and the majority of their survival is placed firmly in the hands of the healer. Whether or not you think this is a good thing or a bad thing, that's up to you. Personally I find the de-evolution of tanks and the stripping of active mitigation to be very much a step backward, and only exists to excite the healers gameplay.

[gcsmith]

Well, people did say they wanted vanilla

[TheEaterofSouls]

He says how prot paladins are a crime against his keyboard. Ive never heard someone use this to describe a bad spec. Things sound pretty grim.

[Viradiance]

Yeah tanking is pretty absurdly unfun on beta right now. It feels like you have absolutely 0 control over your survivability and just exist to hold threat (jokes) and serve as a mana sponge for healers.

I don't know why they chose this model over the wildly successful models of MoP and WoD where tanking was a challenge, and a high skilled tank would be almost unkillable in their own hands.

[Ultramad]

I'll bite as I've kept tabs on all tanks minus dk and dh on alpha.

Right now all tanks have very little control over their health going down unless a healer heals them up. It's a very stark difference between the last two expansions and this one. I've tanked through every expansion and this is a return to how it used to feel. If I had to say anything I would say it's a step in the wrong direction. As tanks you want control, that's what we do. Tanks in legion keep their AM up for the best possible times to use it, and use CDs to lengthen their life, and then they will die eventually.

In SoO on my bear and my co-tank blood dk duo'd about the last 5% of our heroic sha of fear kill and it was glorious. I wouldn't count on seeing anything like that next xpac.

Personally right now the most "fun" tank is going to be very subjective. Paladins and Monks have turned into Warriors and Druids. They use charges to keep their AM up, but they don't need to acquire rage to do so, so their rotation is even less impactful. Which to me, is another step backwards.

If I were choosing a tank right now, which I'm not as I've yet to play them all at 110 in mythic dungeons and raids(which is where I'll make my choice), I would go with a Warrior, as they're still a swiss-army tank and possibly have what I consider the best magic AM, in Ignore Pain. The absorb is very valuable to me, moreso than a % heal based on the druid or paladin criteria. But that's just me. Warriors also go into Legion very intact for the most part from where they are on live. If you like your Warrior on live, you'll like him, maybe even moreso in Legion.

[Manabomb]

Yeah tanking is pretty absurdly unfun on beta right now. It feels like you have absolutely 0 control over your survivability and just exist to hold threat (jokes) and serve as a mana sponge for healers.

I don't know why they chose this model over the wildly successful models of MoP and WoD where tanking was a challenge, and a high skilled tank would be almost unkillable in their own hands.

I know why. Because they find the idea that a tank keeping itself alive without much input from the healer is bad gameplay, even if the tanks gameplay is fun due to him being able to handle damage spikes with his abilities.

Basically it's tank gameplay vs. healer gameplay and I guess healers at Blizzard HQ got tired of spamming AoE heals.

[Deleted]

Calling it now. Legion will have a lot of content to do BUT it will fail because of gameplay mechanics.

[Tijuana]

Alpha is alpha.

[Saracens]

So it just looks like we have to go back to the old ways of CC'n mobs, It's what people wanted right? Harder content & more group interaction so in my honest opinion this may be a step in the right direction.

And this is /thread.

I feel the same way. People have been shouting from the rooftops about a more Vanilla-esque stamp on content. Here it comes.

[Adramelch]

In SoO on my bear and my co-tank blood dk duo'd about the last 5% of our heroic sha of fear kill and it was glorious. I wouldn't count on seeing anything like that next xpac.

That's not good design though and I'm glad it's not a thing anymore. Not a comment on the current tank design on Legion, just wanted to single out that line as it's absurd to me that people see that as a good thing.

[Einsz]

some of the specs have been reduced to an incredibly boring playstyle.

Not just tanks, all classes and specs have incredibly boring playstyle.

[Tijuana]

Not just tanks, all classes and specs have incredibly boring playstyle.

That's not true at all. Look in to some alpha videos or something.

[Renchard]

Anything that gets us back to "If the tank dies, it's the healer's fault. If the healer dies, it's the tank's fault. if the DPS dies, it's their own damn fault" is A-Ok with me. Bonus points if threat becomes an issue again, and CC is needed in dungeons.

[Aleksej89]

Tanks need to be fun.

But the idea of tanks not needing healers is just bad design.

Tanks should be about reducing and mitigating damage - not about having so much self healing that you don't need a healer outside of the toughest raids.

[Aggrophobic]

Blizzard has some cool ideas for the DPS specs, and I've had a blast playing some of, if not most of them. The tanks though... Not so much.
Preach is right here.

[Einsz]

That's not true at all. Look in to some alpha videos or something.

I have alpha access myself as a member of top raiding guild and I have checked classes myself, I find them all boring are you going to tell me my opinion how I find the game is completely wrong now and that I can't find classes boring?

[mysticx]

Calling it now. Legion will have a lot of content to do BUT it will fail because of gameplay mechanics.

Lots of specs are looking pretty wonky by now, but i try to keep hope by repeating to myself that class fixes are easier to cram in than new content, i don't know if it's working though...

Character specs are the basis of the WoW-experience, so when your spec isn't fun Legion isn't fun, that worries me a lot.

[Supercool]

I have alpha access myself as a member of top raiding guild and I have checked classes myself, I find them all boring are you going to tell me my opinion how I find the game is completely wrong now and that I can't find classes boring?

And someone else could say they think everything is super fun and your disagreement with them must be wrong. That's the trap you fall into when you play the subjectivity card.

Meanwhile community consensus carries a bit more weight. Lots of people like how their preferred DPS and healer specs are doing, but pretty much everyone is a bit iffy on tanks right now. This suggests that the tank problem is a little bit more than just personal taste.

[Deleted]

Lots of specs are looking pretty wonky by now, but i try to keep hope by repeating to myself that class fixes are easier to cram in than new content, i don't know if it's working though...

Character specs are the basis of the WoW-experience, so when your spec isn't fun Legion isn't fun, that worries me a lot.

Game companies try for years during development of a game to find that sweet spot of fun and challenging gameplay mechanics, and Blizzard thinks they can do it between expansions?! Bwahahahahahahaha. Expect failure of epic proportions.