Streamlined Dungeons

[Tuesdays]

I honestly prefer the streamlined versions.

Pretty much this. I do miss the old dungeons a bit, but people were just as dumb as they are now and made some runs unbearable. Hunters jumping into the arena with pet out UBRS pulling tons of trash, getting statues right in ST and people getting lost "fixing the problem, paladin/lock mount quests, ugh, not to mention how long it took to clear these places..

I'd like to see xrealm gone, but LF-tools remain alongside streamlined dungeons. Maybe I am just getting too old, and I don't want to spend my entire session in 1 dungeon, sure is nice not having to play overtime to get shit done.

[Jibjub]

Pretty much this. I do miss the old dungeons a bit, but people were just as dumb as they are now and made some runs unbearable. Hunters jumping into the arena with pet out UBRS pulling tons of trash, getting statues right in ST and people getting lost "fixing the problem, paladin/lock mount quests, ugh, not to mention how long it took to clear these places..

I'd like to see xrealm gone, but LF-tools remain alongside streamlined dungeons. Maybe I am just getting too old, and I don't want to spend my entire session in 1 dungeon, sure is nice not having to play overtime to get shit done.

I think they should make a few short streamlined ones and some longer, maze dungeons.

WoW has the resources to do more than they are doing now. It's sad that we have come to accept it.

[Saucerian]

I admit I prefer them linear.

After spending the time forming a group, you would enter these labyrinthine places and everyone would want to go different directions for different objectives. Often people were after one quest, or one drop from one boss, and would leave as soon as they got it.

Hell, I never saw BRD beyond the Grim Guzzler when Classic was current because that was where everyone seemed content to drop group.

Big sprawling dungeons are great for the non-instanced world but for instanced play I prefer unidirectional groups.

- - - Updated - - -

It really depends. I prefer dungeons to have a clear path to the goal(s). That doesn't mean they have to be completely linear, though. I liked the old Wailing Caverns and Sunken Temple quite a bit; however, I still despise Blackrock Depths because it's just a huge mess.

This, definitely, and well put. Linear goals, not necessarily linear layout. Wailing Caverns and Sunken Temple were among my favorites too.

[Tuesdays]

I think they should make a few short streamlined ones and some longer, maze dungeons.

WoW has the resources to do more than they are doing now. It's sad that we have come to accept it.

Seems like most people were happy with wrath fast and easy dungeons, I like fast, doesn't have to be easy. I just don't think the maze like hidden paths would offer much replay value, after a few times it would be "Ugh this place again? Alt+F4" like any of the equivalents today.

I think the entire formula is getting stale, game mechanics don't really allow for player creativity and deep exploration. If you find a creative way to kill a boss, or explore it's more than likely exploiting in some way...sadly...

[Sithalos]

You can blame LFD for that.

[WintersLegion]

Seems like most people were happy with wrath fast and easy dungeons, I like fast, doesn't have to be easy. I just don't think the maze like hidden paths would offer much replay value, after a few times it would be "Ugh this place again? Alt+F4" like any of the equivalents today.

I think the entire formula is getting stale, game mechanics don't really allow for player creativity and deep exploration. If you find a creative way to kill a boss, or explore it's more than likely exploiting in some way...sadly...

Yeah the huge ones may be fun for the first few times you go through but than say like your tenth time through It's routine and you just want to get it over with.

[Deleted]

Yeah the huge ones may be fun for the first few times you go through but than say like your tenth time through It's routine and you just want to get it over with.

Don't run the dungeon for the tenth time then? There has always been the short and efficient dungeon that players would run. Anything gets boring when you run it over and over, but that doesn't mean every dungeon has to be a 10 - 15 minute run which isn't necessarily fun, but just the most efficient way of earning gold/daily reward etc. For example, I chose not to run The Nexus back in WoTLK because I thought it was a pretty long and boring instance, so I'd just run whatever else I enjoyed. That said some players really enjoy The Nexus, and I shouldn't be the one to advocate removing a type of dungeon other players enjoy.

[Namalia]

The newer dungeons are preferable to the old 3-hour long dungeons. I'll take the ones today to the old ones (ST/Mara/BRD/Strat) any day.

[Turaska]

Current design team have no idea what they're doing that's why. Warlords spoke for itself and I'm not holding my breath for Legion either.


So far there is only a handful of things I like about legion



Likes

- Illidan
- Artifact Weapons
- Sargeras
- Sylvanas Progression

Dislike

- Garrison 2.0
- Mediocre Dungeon designs
- Poor boss mechanics (very few stood out as "wow....." most of them were just recycled/hybrid spliced disasters)
- New PvP system is terrible, welcome to Call of Warcraft boys and girls, lets all prestige until the next expansion comes out!
- Garrison 2.0
- Lack of additional features (the wardrobe feature is great... about it really)
- Garrison 2.0

I feel I'm really not getting this whole Garrison 2.0 thing across, let me be more blunt - ORDER HALLS = GARRISON

[Tuesdays]

Don't run the dungeon for the tenth time then? There has always been the short and efficient dungeon that players would run. Anything gets boring when you run it over and over, but that doesn't mean every dungeon has to be a 10 - 15 minute run which isn't necessarily fun, but just the most efficient way of earning gold/daily reward etc. For example, I chose not to run The Nexus back in WoTLK because I thought it was a pretty long and boring instance, so I'd just run whatever else I enjoyed. That said some players really enjoy The Nexus, and I shouldn't be the one to advocate removing a type of dungeon other players enjoy.

Random isn't so random. It likes to bend you over with worst dungeons, again and again. You suggesting people run specific dungeons for less reward? Yeah, I don't think you understand why these were streamlined to begin with.

[Deleted]

Random isn't so random. It likes to bend you over with worst dungeons, again and again. You suggesting people run specific dungeons for less reward? Yeah, I don't think you understand why these were streamlined to begin with.

It doesn't bend you over with the worst dungeons. That's some next level tinfoil if anything. If you want a fun experience versus a efficient experience, then I'd suggest queue for specific dungeons. People will always choose the path of least resistance, so the issue of whatever the longest dungeon is will always remain relative to what's available.

For example when players figured out you could skip most trash in Everbloom, what did they do? Farm the everliving shit out of it. Not because it was a fun experience, but it was just the easiest, fastest and generally most efficient means of getting valor etc.

[Jinpachi]

Current design team have no idea what they're doing that's why. Warlords spoke for itself and I'm not holding my breath for Legion either.


So far there is only a handful of things I like about legion

So you're a beta tester? Or are your opinions just based on other people's anecdotes? I mean you're always free to NOT play, ya know.

Likes

- Illidan
- Artifact Weapons
- Sargeras
- Sylvanas Progression

Dislike

- Garrison 2.0
- Mediocre Dungeon designs
- Poor boss mechanics (very few stood out as "wow....." most of them were just recycled/hybrid spliced disasters)
- New PvP system is terrible, welcome to Call of Warcraft boys and girls, lets all prestige until the next expansion comes out!
- Garrison 2.0
- Lack of additional features (the wardrobe feature is great... about it really)
- Garrison 2.0

I feel I'm really not getting this whole Garrison 2.0 thing across, let me be more blunt - ORDER HALLS = GARRISON

So you're a beta tester? Or are your opinions just based on other people's anecdotes? I mean you're always free to NOT play, ya know.

[Rivin]

It doesn't bend you over with the worst dungeons. That's some next level tinfoil if anything. If you want a fun experience versus a efficient experience, then I'd suggest queue for specific dungeons. People will always choose the path of least resistance, so the issue of whatever the longest dungeon is will always remain relative to what's available.

For example when players figured out you could skip most trash in Everbloom, what did they do? Farm the everliving shit out of it. Not because it was a fun experience, but it was just the easiest, fastest and generally most efficient means of getting valor etc.

You don't get the rewards from queuing for specific dungeons, though. That's the problem. If you want the rewards, you need to do randoms, and there's no way to avoid getting queued into dungeons you don't like.

[Deleted]

You don't get the rewards from queuing for specific dungeons, though. That's the problem. If you want the rewards, you need to do randoms, and there's no way to avoid getting queued into dungeons you don't like.

Now, wouldn't that be a bit of an issue with how Blizzard incentives content? It almost seems like they treat it as if nobody would use the random queue if there isn't extra rewards assigned to it, although it would certainly still see use. I don't fancy the idea that LFD might be a contributor to the continuation of streamlined dungeons, but it's harder to pretend that it's not the case.

[Tuesdays]

It doesn't bend you over with the worst dungeons. That's some next level tinfoil if anything. If you want a fun experience versus a efficient experience, then I'd suggest queue for specific dungeons. People will always choose the path of least resistance, so the issue of whatever the longest dungeon is will always remain relative to what's available.

For example when players figured out you could skip most trash in Everbloom, what did they do? Farm the everliving shit out of it. Not because it was a fun experience, but it was just the easiest, fastest and generally most efficient means of getting valor etc.

Maybe it doesn't bend you over, but I shit you not, if the group hates the dungeon we get, we finish and we re-queue 90% of the time we get the same shit dungeon again and the group says "fuck this /leaves". People skip content until they can faceroll, this is nothing new, if you could do a dungeon that was faster, you'd get more valor, but what happens is you get the longest shit-fest dungeon damn near every time.

Dungeons are boring nowadays, not saying CC added more fun and challenge, but pull this pack, pulling that pack, skipping these two, and so on is just soo fucking over done, the formula is boring, and Blizzard can change the shape of the dungeon all they want but you are still doing the same boring shit over and over - new boss, different mobs, don't stand here or here push 1234567777 and loot -weeeee I ar hasing so much funner!

Seriously though, longer dungeons can be achieved via using walk, there is stuff I noticed in the game years later soloing and actually looking around, not having to deal with the go-go crowd.

[Katchii]

I think the problem with the dungeons was the maze like design to them. I wouldn't mind a longer dungeon experience if it was straight forward. The problem with the older dungeons was that you could get so turned around lost in them you'd spend 10+ minutes just figuring out where the hell to go, only to find out you have to back track 10 minutes to clear this trash near the beginning to hit this button or whatever in order for the deeper dungeon entrance to open up, or get some key item that lets you use the statue that blast a hole in the wall you need to kill the boss that unlocks the next area or some other bullshit.

Sunken Temple was IMO the worst offender, but there were irritating things in all of the dungeons in Vanilla, but I think they all boil down to how convoluted the map was. Make it straight forward and streamlined and I'd be totally fine with longer dungeons...more bosses = more loot = more gold just make the bosses simple to get to. The challenge can still be there.

[Kraineth]

You should check out the Legion dungeons then. A lot of them aren't streamlined like this and they have side areas that may or may not have a use.

Court of Stars is a great example of this, there is some really cool stuff in that dungeon.

[Kazgrel]

Scholomance was a great example of a non-linear dungeon. BRD and ST, not quite as much, unless you had the time to spend 2 or more hours in them figuring stuff out. Which was part of the fun back when the game was new. Nowadays folks would just look up a video guide to get through it asap.

I can't count the number of "thank you" type of tells I got back in ST for knowing the way around there like the back of my hand (yes, including the basement light pillar "puzzle").

[Deleted]

And there were many many who liked the fun of adventuring and feel like they were doing something with their time other than grouping with NPCs (sorry LFD you may as well be with NPCS) and pushing a button to wait in a queue while you sit in a city trolling trade (for upwards of 20 mins if you are DPS).

yeah but your problem is current players or community already know the art of not being bad (that's what is called anyone who does a sport for fun while watching payed sport tv). Only unofficial servers can save them. When a legacy server becomes the real deal... all people on the casual mind will just be overpowered (naturally only after CURRENT progress and before any alpha or beta).

I believe legacy pro guys underestimate how rare they were back then and how common they have become now. And when you were casual back then expect a supernova when you want to replay old stuff.

[Seefer]

yeah but your problem is current players or community already know the art of not being bad (that's what is called anyone who does a sport for fun while watching payed sport tv). Only unofficial servers can save them. When a legacy server becomes the real deal... all people on the casual mind will just be overpowered (naturally only after CURRENT progress and before any alpha or beta).

I believe legacy pro guys underestimate how rare they were back then and how common they have become now. And when you were casual back then expect a supernova when you want to replay old stuff.

I honestly don't see that many good players anymore, they can't handle CC or a little bit of challenge which is why LFR is around and LFD has to be dumbed down so much.