TTIP secret negotiation papers revealed

[Deleted]

Funny how only Americans are defending this.

They are not the ones who are getting screwed by this.

[Slant]

They are not the ones who are getting screwed by this.

They might be if German car brands can export their cars without high punitive custom charges. We all know European car manufacturers are superior in quality, safety, style and... well, basically anything that isn't pure "muscle car". :P

[breadisfunny]

Funny how only Americans are defending this.

funny how your wrong. i'm american and i don't support it.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

Hey, you progressive have been saying we should be more like Europe.

WELL! Now we will. Only first we're going to make Europe more like us. Gotta love globalization and homegenizing the shit out of the world over in order to better favor your corporate overlords.

Maybe you should start respecting boundaries, cultures, and differing markets rather than thinking everyone should be the same. ;o

[I Push Buttons]

They might be if German car brands can export their cars without high punitive custom charges. We all know European car manufacturers are superior in quality, safety, style and... well, basically anything that isn't pure "muscle car". :P

According to the IIHS almost all of the best manufactured and safest cars this year and for several years have been Asian cars, mostly Japanese, with a few Korean as well. Only a handful of American and EU cars on their list.

[breadisfunny]

According to the IIHS almost all of the best manufactured and safest cars this year and for several years have been Asian cars, mostly Japanese, with a few Korean as well. Only a handful of American and EU cars on their list.

that doesn't really disprove the underlying point then.

[Slant]

According to the IIHS almost all of the best manufactured and safest cars this year and for several years have been Asian cars, mostly Japanese, with a few Korean as well. Only a handful of American and EU cars on their list.

Yeah, you need to understand how they display data. They are not ranking stuff, they are just showing who is above a certain quality. And due to the way Japanese manufacture their cars, a Subaru 2-door is practically the same as a Subaru 4-door. So when they appear on the same list twice, that really just means that adding two new doors didn't introduce flaws in the overall design.

European and American companies are well represented in their 2015 rating list. Look at the midsize/near luxura car section, 4 out of 6 cars with the highest ratings are European. Just as an example. And the only car not with the top rating in that list is a Lincoln. Didn't even know that brand still exists. So basically, out of 7 cars, only 2 are Japanese.

Now, I could make a generalised statement about how they don't exist... or I can realise that midsize/near luxury isn't a segment Japanese are overly interested in. they like mini SUVs, sports cars or offroaders. That's what they do.

[Barnabas]

Yeah, you need to understand how they display data. They are not ranking stuff, they are just showing who is above a certain quality. And due to the way Japanese manufacture their cars, a Subaru 2-door is practically the same as a Subaru 4-door. So when they appear on the same list twice, that really just means that adding two new doors didn't introduce flaws in the overall design.

European and American companies are well represented in their 2015 rating list. Look at the midsize/near luxura car section, 4 out of 6 cars with the highest ratings are European. Just as an example. And the only car not with the top rating in that list is a Lincoln. Didn't even know that brand still exists. So basically, out of 7 cars, only 2 are Japanese.

Now, I could make a generalised statement about how they don't exist... or I can realise that midsize/near luxury isn't a segment Japanese are overly interested in. they like mini SUVs, sports cars or offroaders. That's what they do.

Different tests look for different data for consumers in different regions. To summarize:



- - - Updated - - -

According to the IIHS almost all of the best manufactured and safest cars this year and for several years have been Asian cars, mostly Japanese, with a few Korean as well. Only a handful of American and EU cars on their list.

You get a more complete picture with NHSTA data. IIHS doesn't conduct rollover tests. Some of the impact tests are different. IIHS focus is damage to car. NHSTA tests if you will actually survive and what injuries to expect.

[TotemJoker]

I don't understand most of the leaked documents but even I see its about more than cars and beef. Can someone who understands it please make an informed post about how it actually affects the UK and EU people.

[I Push Buttons]

You get a more complete picture with NHSTA data. IIHS doesn't conduct rollover tests. Some of the impact tests are different. IIHS focus is damage to car. NHSTA tests if you will actually survive and what injuries to expect.

I am sure such things are taken into consideration by the IIHS as well, if not published outright, still very much so behind the scenes... They are financed by and represent the interests of insurance companies, after all. If anything the safety of the passengers is paramount to insurers, since it is they who have to pay when people injure and kill each other in car accidents. The safer the car, the less liability in what they potentially have to pay, and money is all that matters to them.

[JohnBrown1917]

Hey, you progressive have been saying we should be more like Europe.

WELL! Now we will. Only first we're going to make Europe more like us. Gotta love globalization and homegenizing the shit out of the world over in order to better favor your corporate overlords.

Maybe you should start respecting boundaries, cultures, and differing markets rather than thinking everyone should be the same. ;o

I don't see how this relates to the thread?
This probably won't even pass.

[Noradin]

I'm glad we have the EU, otherwise we wouldn't be discussing this, we would have given up all those points already.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

I don't see how this relates to the thread?
This probably won't even pass.

You would hope but I wouldn't be surprised.

...and it relates because it comes down to continued globalization of the markets. You lot don't seem to realize that corporations WANT to homogenize the world because it's easier to corrupt that way. So this constant demand that X should be like Y and that borders/territories don't mean anything is actually favoring the spread of said corruption.

It's why a little bit of nationalism isn't exactly a bad thing. Balance and moderation. Two keys to living a long, healthy existence people tend to overlook. We like to swing towards one extreme or another and through this we undo ourselves.

[Deleted]

You caught us Europe! We are trying to assassinate all of your citizens via feeding them carcinogenic laced GMO foodstuffs! And we want to destroy your automotive industry!

Muahahahhaha

Bow to your evil American overlords!

While some conspiracy nuts certainly believe this, I'm more concerned by them fucking with European quality and safety standards, which are arguably much higher than their American equivalents.

[JohnBrown1917]

You would hope but I wouldn't be surprised.

...and it relates because it comes down to continued globalization of the markets. You lot don't seem to realize that corporations WANT to homogenize the world because it's easier to corrupt that way. So this constant demand that X should be like Y and that borders/territories don't mean anything is actually favoring the spread of said corruption.

It's why a little bit of nationalism isn't exactly a bad thing. Balance and moderation. Two keys to living a long, healthy existence people tend to overlook. We like to swing towards one extreme or another and through this we undo ourselves.

I'm still not getting what you're going with.

[Deleted]

God damn Amerikek's. Always a finger in the jelly jar.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

I'm still not getting what you're going with.

...Oh my fucking god. Why do I bother? Spelled it out by and large but apparently not slow enough.

[Damajin]

No surprise to me and I'm glad to see the overwhelming support against this atrocity being attempted by our supposed betters, all in the name of heftier profits. May it escalate and overwhelm the entire deal.

[Acidbaron]

You would hope but I wouldn't be surprised.

...and it relates because it comes down to continued globalization of the markets. You lot don't seem to realize that corporations WANT to homogenize the world because it's easier to corrupt that way. So this constant demand that X should be like Y and that borders/territories don't mean anything is actually favoring the spread of said corruption.

It's why a little bit of nationalism isn't exactly a bad thing. Balance and moderation. Two keys to living a long, healthy existence people tend to overlook. We like to swing towards one extreme or another and through this we undo ourselves.

Standing behind this as its' currently presented from the US talking points is political suicide, both the commissioner of trade from the EU and the main negotiator have already commented on these leaks. Not to mention before every country in the EU has agreed on it Obama will be long out of his term and so will the next president be knowing all things EU, so Obama pushing for this before the end of his term is really a silly statement.

Nationalism on things like chemicals, food and all other standards is pointless. It's protectionism and doesn't serve anyone in the long run. This deal is also not about everything more the same its about building new trade relations.

[JohnBrown1917]

...Oh my fucking god. Why do I bother? Spelled it out by and large but apparently not slow enough.

Not my fault whatever bullshit point you're trying to make has nothing to do with Europeans disliking TTIP.
Corporations don't hold the same power they have in the US.