Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Kyanion]

If you don't think people are bored in current WoW you are living in a box. You even have people against the idea who feel because of the MASSIVE LULL this could be causing the issue to seem worse than it actually is.

Of course plenty of people are bored right now. Does not mean that boredom needs to be cured by having Legacy realms. I think Legion will keep people engaged for a while, it really depends on if there is a lull in Legion and how long it lasts before I think Blizz would try to make some sweeping changes or introduce legacy/pristine realms.

[Eliseus]

It's simply not. People were struggling in the context of that time. While average wow players don't necessarily get better but top end raiders do each expansion. The top end bosses have been coping with the skill of top players.

Well if the only thing we can use as a reference is the context of that time, how can we view anything else as credible without experiencing that time now? Like someone earlier posted, people still struggle on these other classic servers. Not saying that as much, but I feel it's a bit far fetched to say, "this is why this is hard because of this though I can't really say that for sure since we don't have any way to actually test this conclusion". If I were though to use Everquest as a reference point, people who struggled the first time around, still struggled in the eras that gave struggle the first time. I watch NA players still failing things left and right in games like FFXI though Japanese players have had videos out forever on content that NA players still fail at. There is a little more to it than just "we would blow this era away". It's safe to say we better understand what is expected of us in a raiding environment. That doesn't mean the execution is just going to magically happen.

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Of course plenty of people are bored right now. Does not mean that boredom needs to be cured by having Legacy realms. I think Legion will keep people engaged for a while, it really depends on if there is a lull in Legion and how long it lasts before I think Blizz would try to make some sweeping changes or introduce legacy/pristine realms.

Luckily you were arguing that people quit before they could clear content like Naxx because of boredom, not a solution being claimed in this current discussion to fix boredome, although a Legacy server could help some with that.

I've already stated that I personally don't feel a Legacy server is coming soon. I could be wrong, and as much as I would love to have one now, I'm sure it wouldn't happen till the point in time during Legion regardless of a lull or not. As the population goes down, this just looks more appealing. It's basically a waiting game. Maybe Nost and Mark will be able to present enough feedback to get one going now, maybe not.

[Wildmoon]

Well if the only thing we can use as a reference is the context of that time, how can we view anything else as credible without experiencing that time now? Like someone earlier posted, people still struggle on these other classic servers. Not saying that as much, but I feel it's a bit far fetched to say, "this is why this is hard because of this though I can't really say that for sure since we don't have any way to actually test this conclusion". If I were though to use Everquest as a reference point, people who struggled the first time around, still struggled in the eras that gave struggle the first time. I watch NA players still failing things left and right in games like FFXI though Japanese players have had videos out forever on content that NA players still fail at. There is a little more to it than just "we would blow this era away". It's safe to say we better understand what is expected of us in a raiding environment. That doesn't mean the execution is just going to magically happen.

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Luckily you were arguing that people quit before they could clear content like Naxx because of boredom, not a solution being claimed in this current discussion to fix boredome, although a Legacy server could help some with that.

I've already stated that I personally don't feel a Legacy server is coming soon. I could be wrong, and as much as I would love to have one now, I'm sure it wouldn't happen till the point in time during Legion regardless of a lull or not. As the population goes down, this just looks more appealing. It's basically a waiting game. Maybe Nost and Mark will be able to present enough feedback to get one going now, maybe not.

You will naturally learn to execute it much faster with better understanding especially with minimal mechanics of vanilla given that you went through all the troubles to reach that point in the first place.

[eillas]

I've already stated that I personally don't feel a Legacy server is coming soon. I could be wrong, and as much as I would love to have one now, I'm sure it wouldn't happen till the point in time during Legion regardless of a lull or not. As the population goes down, this just looks more appealing. It's basically a waiting game. Maybe Nost and Mark will be able to present enough feedback to get one going now, maybe not.

I doubt it. It's going to require a great deal of work to get an official Legacy server up. I can't see it happening in the next two years.

[Eliseus]

You will naturally learn to execute it much faster with better understanding especially with minimal mechanics of vanilla given that you went through all the troubles to reach that point in the first place.

Sadly, this won't apply to all. I don't feel classic will be difficult, but knowing what I know about MMOs now, it definitely will be for your average players. Sitting here thinking about what to respond to you made me think about how a lot of these people in this thread may genuinely be good players all around. So it almost leads to a biased view more than a factual view, since the era we are biased to leads us to believe that era was harder. So I'm trying to think about all random people I run into all the time that just seem absolutely dumb in WoW. I think they will struggle still regardless of the era haha. This is however why I bring up though the amount of people clearing content, because it seems your average players failed more in raiding then than now.

I watched my brother at the end of MoP out parsing people in pug runs on mythic with gear tiers lower than the mythic geared pug, but stuff was still dying. This holds true to earlier tiers like MC in classic, but not Naxx. 40 people having to execute mechanics properly with no fail, and no sufficient self-sustainability was much more of a nightmare than exists now. I'm not saying this is true for all Mythic encounters of course, but in general. I remember when I came back during MoP and people were just standing in fire...... I was confused beyond belief since WoW was always about standing in fire is death. He laughed as he just kept everyone alive on his druid.

Ultimately though it seems that view is really just a massive subjective mess unless again, we break things down to basically be viewed as numbers essentially. This would probably still be a mess because people would say some things count and some things don't. So I don't know. I think really it should just be argued where you had/have/will have the most fun. A lot of people have made it apparent that it is Classic, some of made it apparent that it is current. There is nothing wrong with enjoying either, unless the demand for classic was all from 1 person demanding it.

[Wildmoon]

Sadly, this won't apply to all. I don't feel classic will be difficult, but knowing what I know about MMOs now, it definitely will be for your average players. Sitting here thinking about what to respond to you made me think about how a lot of these people in this thread may genuinely be good players all around. So it almost leads to a biased view more than a factual view, since the era we are biased to leads us to believe that era was harder. So I'm trying to think about all random people I run into all the time that just seem absolutely dumb in WoW. I think they will struggle still regardless of the era haha. This is however why I bring up though the amount of people clearing content, because it seems your average players failed more in raiding then than now.

I watched my brother at the end of MoP out parsing people in pug runs on mythic with gear tiers lower than the mythic geared pug, but stuff was still dying. This holds true to earlier tiers like MC in classic, but not Naxx. 40 people having to execute mechanics properly with no fail, and no sufficient self-sustainability was much more of a nightmare than exists now. I'm not saying this is true for all Mythic encounters of course, but in general. I remember when I came back during MoP and people were just standing in fire...... I was confused beyond belief since WoW was always about standing in fire is death. He laughed as he just kept everyone alive on his druid.

Ultimately though it seems that view is really just a massive subjective mess unless again, we break things down to basically be viewed as numbers essentially. This would probably still be a mess because people would say some things count and some things don't. So I don't know. I think really it should just be argued where you had/have/will have the most fun. A lot of people have made it apparent that it is Classic, some of made it apparent that it is current. There is nothing wrong with enjoying either, unless the demand for classic was all from 1 person demanding it.

You really should not look to average players when trying measure difficulty. It should be top players who have cleared everything from old naxx to modern mythic(old heroic) raids.

[Eliseus]

You really should not look to average players when trying measure difficulty. It should be top players who have cleared everything from old naxx to modern mythic(old heroic) raids.

The average player makes up your population.

[brunnor]

The average player makes up your population.

No one is saying they don't, but if you tune difficulty around 50%, that is half of your game who has no challenge.

[PenguinChan]

True I mean there are bad players no matter where you go, not everyone is capable of doing well and doing all the content or playing at the highest levels. But at least you are willing to admit classic content is hella easier, not everyone arguing for Legacy realms is being honest like that.

Everyone should know the difficulty in classic wasn't in the encounters, at least after they were first introduced. I can be fair and say that back then, it makes sense as to WHY it was hard for the average player. Obviously clicking abilities and back stepping were pretty much the norm even for the best guilds. But also new mechanics being introduced that were never there before, and that stinted growth.

But now everyone and their grandmother have played some form of the same mechanics from classic in a redone form, or TBC, or WotLK, or... You get what I mean. The difficulty besides that was knowing the gear to obtain, which at the same was not set in stone what throughput was best for each class and specialization. Of course some people figured it out really quick and made guides (to some degree), or kept it within their guild.

A prime example would probably be how tanks were by and large Warrior only and druid / paladin tanks were rarely ever seen outside of 5 mans. Anyone whose researched classic servers now has seen that Prot paladin actually can tank up to BWL, depending on the boss. Of course it requires specific armor (almost BiS every raid) and tons of pots but yeah. I never heard of any protection paladin actually accomplishing this, even back when the 1.12.1 patch was relevant.

A special note goes out to specializations and the way to build that as well, but over time that had popularized guides and eventually by the end very common builds used. TBC definitely had the same deal going on, with the resurgence of fan sites and all of that jazz being MUCH more popular.

[Typhoria]

A prime example would probably be how tanks were by and large Warrior only and druid / paladin tanks were rarely ever seen outside of 5 mans. Anyone whose researched classic servers now has seen that Prot paladin actually can tank up to BWL, depending on the boss. Of course it requires specific armor (almost BiS every raid) and tons of pots but yeah. I never heard of any protection paladin actually accomplishing this, even back when the 1.12.1 patch was relevant.

Part of this was also a path of least resistant type of deal. Paladins as healers and buffers was a necessity. Warriors didn't even have to be prot to tank, so for the most part people could throw a shield on and do decently enough.

[Chrno]

I really do wonder how the WoW community as of now would do on a classic server. I read people claiming raids would fall in no time.
But i honestly wonder if that is the case.

People that stood in fires back then .... still stand in fucking fires today >_< .....!!!!!!!!!!
I've raided with my guild since TBC and the players that were bad back then ... are almost all .... still .. very ... bad ... (at raiding).

If i were to guess (never raided on a private server) i'd say the community would struggle almost just as much as back in the days. There will be a couple of guilds with pro-players and the know-how that will prob do it allot quicker. But the general population will be ... just as bad as they are right now :P

anyway, no way to know for sure unless a server ever get's made

[kenoathcarn]

Unluckily blizzards devs would have to spend effort in pristine realms which could be used elsewhere.

Do you actually think only because you played WoW for free on Nostalgrius that blizzard wont have to put effort and money into actually creating those realms?

I don't actually, the game design is completed, art assets already exist etc. It only requires a team of engineers to get it working.

Sure its not as simple as flipping a switch and turning it on, but are you crying that the guys working on compatibility issues for WC3 and D2 are messing with your legion release date? I don't think so.

To illustrate it even more:

Your request is comparable to ask for a redo of Starcraft II while Startcraft II is still alive and played.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but didnt legacy servers become a thing for other mmos at approx the same timeline? about 10 years.

[Wildmoon]

The average player makes up your population.

That's not the point though. The point is measuring difficulty. Top players would give you more accurate answers.

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I really do wonder how the WoW community as of now would do on a classic server. I read people claiming raids would fall in no time.
But i honestly wonder if that is the case.

People that stood in fires back then .... still stand in fucking fires today >_< .....!!!!!!!!!!
I've raided with my guild since TBC and the players that were bad back then ... are almost all .... still .. very ... bad ... (at raiding).

If i were to guess (never raided on a private server) i'd say the community would struggle almost just as much as back in the days. There will be a couple of guilds with pro-players and the know-how that will prob do it allot quicker. But the general population will be ... just as bad as they are right now :P

anyway, no way to know for sure unless a server ever get's made

When people claim that raids would fall in no time they mean by top players not average players.

[Deleted]

Some of my old WoW-friends are actually exited about the idea of official Vanilla/BC servers!

They werent coming back for Legion but this idea of classic servers actually got them interested again.

[ornichi]

Some of my old WoW-friends are actually exited about the idea of official Vanilla/BC servers!

They werent coming back for Legion but this idea of classic servers actually got them interested again.

so now it's BC too, lol

[Deleted]

so now it's BC too, lol

Well, just to name the most interesting classic server options.

I believe the private servers also offer/offered these two options.

[Uurdz]

so now it's BC too, lol

Seems a bit obvious if vanilla servers are successful they would look to release tbc again to provide additional content.

[Gilgameshh]

Ignoring the fact that vanilla/BC were by far my absolute favorite times in WoW by a longshot, I don't exactly want their return just yet. Would I play on those servers? If retail was still this bad, yes I would (and I did, on Nostalrius). Would I prefer retail go in a much different direction instead? Without a doubt.

When entertainment of any form tries to please everyone instead of those who made their entertainment a success in the first place, that entertainment usually doesn't end up entertaining that many people. WoW is an MMO-RPG. It's supposed to attract players who want to grind character progression and group with other people. Those types of players are the ones who made this game popular and they're going to decide when the game goes free-to-play. Little by little, that population is leaving. The most efficient way to get things done outside of mythic raiding is to press a couple buttons and voila! You're playing a single player RPG with what might as well be with NPCs. The gameplay is not nearly good enough to sustain that type of design.

I've given these "pristine servers" some thought and I think it's a decent enough beginning for an idea, but it would have to be substantially different from retail for me to want to play. No group finder, no flying, one difficulty for raids and raids with appropriate difficulty increase to compensate, removal of catch-up mechanics, removal of the majority of BoE's from the AH, re-institution of classic style legendaries, no name changes, no server transfers, no race changes, no level boosts, no cross-realm, very difficult world bosses on long random timers... I guess the list goes on and on, but I would be satisfied with at least half of it. It'll never live up to vanilla/BC for me, but it would at least bring back the elements from those times that I enjoyed. I'm obviously not alone when I say I'm thoroughly disappointed by how drastically this game has changed over the years.

I don't think Blizzard will ever revert back to their old designs, but I do think the pristine servers could breathe life back into the IP for many, many disenfranchised players.

[Deleted]

*** copied from my old thread ***

Hello Guys, so yeah... i'm an old-school player.

i've been playing World of Warcraft since launch, and i must say... the game is pretty much getting ruined for me... what about you? don't you think so?
probably not, because you don't know better since most of you weren't there when it all began, when the game was epic.
here, i'll mention a few things that has changed during the years... which has also made me think that the game is currently digging it's own grave.

P.S.
"getting ruined for me" means (it's not yet ruined, and i'm talking about ME, MY OPINION)
"what about you? don't you think so?" means (i'm asking if others feel the same)

1. The game is a MMO... they've removed the RPG entirely IMO.
so it's no longer a MMOrpg imo.

2. WoW used to feel like a small town where everyone knew each other... even the other faction...
but now? today it's like WoW is a fucking airport where you'll only know the few friends you MIGHT travel with... but everyone else don't give a shit about you, they wont talk to you, they won't look at you... but if you actually DO interact with someone, they're gone with the next plane and they'll be gone forever unless you trade e-mails(battle.net accounts)

i could login right now with my newly dinged 90 shaman... and get full "best" pvp gear in 1 day...
(yeah i'm serious... since i have a cap for about 18000k conquest points)

like seriously... i leveled 1-60 in months... i had more than 200 days played on my warrior, i played SO DAMN MUCH and every time there was something special, a raid.... farming a certain rep (which took time btw) nowday it seems you become best friends with an entire faction in 1 day... what did u do? save them from the wrath of some crazy monster or what? why would you become EXALTED with a FACTION in 1 day? seriously.... that's just ridiculous... (tabards)

i didn't get into raiding until pretty late... with my priest that is... but i always dreamed about getting Tier 1 with my warrior because i LOOOVED the Might set! but i never really got it... cuz my realm was over-populated with warriors... so i rerolled a priest to do PvE and kept doing PvP with the warrior!

i remember fighting about the box in Gurubashi Arena...
i remember when making a TWINK was actually fun because you'd be overpower and troll people in BG...
nowday if u queue BG with a twink you get opponents that are also twinks... why would you even want to make a twink then? XD
i remember how everyone was farming in Tyr's Hand... or Heartglen to kill elites that was actually SO HARD that most of the people could only do 1 and then they needed to eat food or use first aid XD

elites nowday? well... if you don't kill it in 2 hits then you must've had ressurection sickness
i even solo RARE ELITES such as Warbringers, etc within 1 bladestorm

where is the fun? seriously... and YES there is transmogg... but i remember walking around the city being like OMFG SOMEONE WITH RAGNAROS HAND JUST PASSED ME BY, WHEN DID SOMEONE ON THIS SERVER GET THAT? /w hey congratulations to the legendary <3
OMG WHAT SHOULDERS IS THAT? NEVER SEEN IT omg it's from AQ?... RESPECT TO YOU <3

i mean... transmogg is fun... and i bet a lot of people love it... but i think it ruined the game a little too... i mean... i want to be able to walk in the city, knowing what gear people have... without having to inspect everybody =p

i just wish there was 100% legit Original vanilla realms... Bug-free but starting from patch 1.x.x and making us have to progress in order for them to release new content etc

i don't like the --> straight to last raid

i want us to go through ZG -> MC -> BWL -> AQ -> NAXX

nowday you hit lvl 90, go to an isle to aquire good gear enough for LFR(looking for raid) and just queue up and you're already doing the newest content :/... you should have to start from the beginning.... normal dungeon -> Heroic dungeon -> first raid, second raid, third raid and THEN Siege of Orgrimmar

nowday u can just skip everything and go straight to the end... where's the fun in that?

Quote Originally Posted by Frogguh
"And if you can't find anyone willing to run that content with you, you're screwed. Maybe I'm wrong, but I figure most people don't want to be wasting time backtracking on old content to get one guy caught up.?"
lol... you always did run all raids in a week... some did it to earn DKP, some run with alts, some got boosted gear, some just for the fun of it...

though i DO understand if you don't want to backtrack old content nowdays... cuz let's face it... you'd be doing Siege of Orgrimmar 4 times a week... (lfr, flex, normal, hc) which is pretty booring, isn't it?

but it's a whole other thing if we're talking about 3-4 unique raids every week... right? [/QUOTE]



and what the hell is this!?!?! YOU AINT SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO SOLO A RAID BOSS AT YOUR CURRENT EXPANSION.... WTF?!?!?



and this is also ridiculous... soloing a challenge mode boss xD wtf???!!
"dat challenge tho!"



https://www.youtube.com/user/Wannoob79/videos

in fact, if you check his youtube channel, you can see that he's been soloing almost every boss of MoP... even challenge modes... and atop of that... he's been soloing WoD bosses with crap-beta-gear.... oh my god, where is this game going really?

and wtf about this "oh you've never been to this dungeon? well then you can't join.... link achievement or you will never be able to tag along..."

*** what happaned to attunaments? i actually liked attunaments!! ***

"Hey guys we have outdoor pvp.... but if you try to attack someone they can sap/stun/cc you and fly away"

"but oh wait... no one is ever outside of the city anyway!"

"you want epics? sure just /claim epics... they're free, go ahead take them!"
ep·ic [ep-ik]: heroic; majestic; impressively great: the epic events of the war."
does it look like Epic is still... epic to you?

"you want mounts? sure go to this place and farm for 1 day and you'll be exalted!"

"a day is too much? oh sorry, get this tabard, only 45 silver and you can get it in half a day instead!"

"the game is not unbalanced... that is why frost mages have never been nerfed but everyone else has."

"oh you're queueing as a dps? just hold on a minute... or 15... no wait u must wait 30 minutes sorry!"
*** please allow more classes to be able to tank ***

"oh your friend died... don't worry you can resurrect him in combat... oh no you died... don't worry he can combat ress you as well... unless you're in heroic."

"damn a sword dropped and i really want it... i didn't get it... whatever i'll get the mace, the axe or the 1h weapons from all the other bosses with almost the exact same stats... cuz i'll transmog anyway."

"you wanna work hard to achieve? ... ... wait... ... sorry then this is not the game for you, we've optimized this game for 12 years and under... so that they can progress every day... and get free epics"


i still remember when i played in vanilla... i played my warrior for over 1 year and i had like 2 epics at first... the unstoppable force and the immovable object. AND THOSE WERE PVP REWARDS WTF
***You had to be exalted with Alterac Valley***

then i hit ranked up in PvP which took me a couple of months... i eventually got the shoulders from being exalted with Arathi Basin which was nice... and rest of my gear was rank 1-9 blues... until i had played for another few months and actually ranked up to rank 11 i believe it was? to get boots and gloves? i almost felt mighty... as if i had accomplished some greatness in the game... people were happy about me ranking up... i was starting to get a littlebit famous... if it wasn't for that guy Ztar from a particular guild who climbed in ranks like ridiculously fast because he actually achieved a LEGENDARY WEAPON (Ragnaros Hand) and he was the only one on the server, so he started smashing the pvp big-time.... well, i can't say he didn't deserve it... he totally did... he was a true legend on the Darksorrow Realm... but he was no match for the Alliance Human Female Warrior... Anise... She was rank 14, a real grand marshal... every horde feared her... even in the local defence chat "/3" people would say RUN!!! ANISE IS COMING TO TYRS HAND and seriously we all abandoned the place because we knew we'd get humiliated by her skills...

however, moving on;

i remember when it was actually HARD to get items... i remember when i was HAPPY when i got a new item?
nowdays you can defeat the game in less than 2 months... do all dungeons get all the best gear with extra rolls... cuz rolling once per boss each week wasn't enough... like WTF?!?!?!?! GAME IT'S TOO EASY... AND I DON'T LIKE EASY GAMES i miss the old times... where you had to run to your place with 60% mount cuz there was no way in hell you could farm 800g for 100% mount... and the only way to get a faster mount was to get that friggin carrot on a damn stick... xD

"LET'S DO AV... AND SUMMON BOSS!" - 2008 player be like: boss? what boss? is there a boss in AV? u mean Vandaar or something? balinda? can't summon, they're already there!

"I remember when i could play AV for 10 hours, go to bed and come back... and enter THE SAME DAMN AV!" 2008 players be like - wat? how? everyone protected base or what? omg noobs! i usually win/loose av in 15 min

*** FIX THIS OMG I MISS IT... ***

"i remember in vanilla... you could not waste your hearthstone if you knew you had to go back to Orgrimmar TWICE... cuz there was a 60 min cooldown... so you'd use the flight path!"

"i remember in Vanilla... you could go just select any of those; Silithus, Eastern Plague, Winterspring, Burning Steppes, Blackrock Mountain... if you wanted some PvP... cuz people were actually doing quests... and couldn't escape with flying mount... and if you wanted to be really evil, you could also go to Stv/Stonetalon/Feralas and kill low levels, even Ashenvale you'd see allys 24/7...

the best part? the most evil part? let's take it from the beginning...

in vanilla... at level 20 you could do Wailing Caverns or the old version of Deadmines...
if you were horde, you'd stand in Crossroads and /1 LF3M HEALER TANK AND DPS FOR WC!!! /w me
if you were a ally, you'd stand in Westfall and do the same... AFTER YOU HAD FOUND 5 MEMBERS FOR A TEAM... it was finally time to summon them with the MEETING STONE... and ATLEAST 2 players had to go there to summon...

if you wanted to be evil... you could just go to WC or DM summoner stones and await a 5 man party... go in there and slay them... you wouldn't even one shot them... there was no such thing as one shotting people back then. maybe a lvl 1-20 ok... but not above that. you'd crit MAXIMUM of 2k. but that was with special abilities and trinkets and shit. anyways... fun way to gank people... if you were really evil that is. *** i'm not evil, promise! ***

wanna hear more? oh yeah... i remember in vanilla... if someone had half gear with epics he was cool... if someone had epic mount he was cool... if someone had found the ZULIAN TIGER HE WAS SUPER COOL...

but if someone Obtained the Amani War bear, "k bro who cares"
if someone gets full epic in a week "k bro who cares"
nothing is special nowadays and Blizzard made sure that everything was easy to obtain. even Raven Lord was once very very very rare, and could only be obtained if you were a Druid
*** well, you could give it away to team members ***

another one; engineering was fun, you could make bombs and use them...
first aid was necessary for most people cuz it actually healed you about 50% your hp.
HEALING POTS, don't forget that... it was also like 50% your hp...

hunters had to buy arrows and could use melee in close combat... now they just scatter > trap you to get away and where's the fun in that? i miss razor blade and wingclip wtf

P.S. if you were good in vanilla... you were famous. not cuz you streamed, not cuz you were some other internet celebrity. but for the fact that there was no such thing as cross realm PVP or PVE.

people would be like "omg Anise on alliance side is rank 14. ****ing GRAND MARSHAL. RESPECT. DON'T MESS WITH HER."

now when i find friends which is very rare, they're on another realm and 1 week later they're forgotten.

i remember when i could walk past orgrimmar auction house and see 20 players that was my friends...

now it's more like: Ankrut? he must be new... Blrgu... he must also be new... who is this and who is that?

no respect, no nothing. :3 i'm very sad because World of Warcraft used to be such a nice place and i had tons of friends

* i could keep on writing here for hours about things that is ruined, but unfortunately i don't have more time.
please comment what you think about this...

1. Should it really be this easy to farm gear?
2. Wouldn't you like Attunaments instead of achievement linking?
3. Would you mind, if epics were only obtainable from raids, with a lower chance? say 2 items per boss drops, instead of like 6-8 or whatever it is?
4. How can you be happy about getting a item, if you know that within the next 24 hours you might replace it?
5. Why would there be so many zones with so many quests... if you don't even have time to do more than 5 quests each zone because you level up too fast?
6. i watched a Youtube Video of a blue geared level 90 going to Draenor for the first time... and 2 hitted mobs... and got BLUE GEAR FROM QUESTS!?!?!? will Draenor really be that easy!?!? is there no challenge in questing?!?!

please tell me what you think, and please criticize and change my mind, i really want to be interested in playing Warlords of Draenor... but i'm having a hard time right now...

and i do not blame Blizzard for any of this, they've just been listening to their "fans"
i love blizzard and i always will... i hope that some day there will be Vanilla or TBC realms... inside the Original World of Warcraft Client.

i remember at level 30... i got a quest to swim far out the sea to a little island... to get my amazing warrior axe that i always kept just because it was cool...

i had to make quests to get different stances...

bear form, cat form... getting a new form in every 10th level...

getting air, fire, earth, water totems... one by one...

being able to tame pets, feed them...

even dropped tomes that made mages able to make different food, or a cool polymorph...

idk... i miss so many things that a thread here isn't enough to describe it all... i miss the old time when World of Warcraft was better than hanging with my friends at the schoolyard playing, or just staying late at a friends house or whatever...

World of Warcraft had my friends, sitting by a bonefire talking about anything, dueling in durotar, being kind, buying fadeleaf to a rogue after a duel... making them super happy.... idk... it feels like they've removed the "role playing" out of the game...

people think i like hard things, or things that take long time... but they're actually misunderstanding my whole thread...

i miss the role playing, the feelings you would get from achieving a new weapon... new shoulders... the feeling that said "Finally, i got a new item... i deserve it"
it's just like IRL... if anything was given free/easily, how can you be happy? think about that... i'd rather work long and hard for a new item than getting one very easy with the mind set on getting another one tomorrow anyway? i couldn't be happy that way...

vanishing powder
poison
blinding powder
arrows / bullets using a quiver and even 1h weapons if you were to get into close combat...
portal runes
getting fiery weapon was expensive so you got beastslaying just because you wanted the glow...
warlocks went farming soul shards
leveling so slow that you would actually go through a whole zone and enjoy every single quest and keep up with the story... finding caves, swimming the water because you had to do quests there, farming cloth because first aid was actually convenient...
fishing/farming to make food, if you weren't a mage...
making shield block damage enchants
make bow/gun enchants...
farming light feather for slow fall...
not because it was necessary... but because it was fun to have, characters was more fun back then imo... because there was so much more to do except farm dungeons or battlegrounds and gold :/

when Professions could actually make good weapons/armors that people would actually use... just just belt and legs...

saving DKP... for that ONE ITEM YOU WANTED.
instead of someone rolling more than you on a rare item... every time... 5 times in row...

farming the resistance gear... fire for MC / BWL, nature for AQ... frost for certain boss in NAXX...

you had a JOB... and it wasn't to farm gold for your repair bills or food/pots...

you would do so much more than just that... to be ready for a raid...

there's so much to say... because i really miss the role playing part of World of Warcraft...

and about Alterac Valley... i miss farming scraps and bloods to send troops... summon bosses... it was way funnier that way... i do not like the rushing that we're doing right now it's not fun actually... the whole concept of the Battleground is not working the way it should... i actually liked Alterac Valley and i really really really hope that Ashran will give me that old feeling of endless battles that will just go on and on and on and we're picking up reinforcements and blah blah...
(i like the guildwars eternal battleground cuz of this... just wish World of Warcraft could do something like this!
Alterac Valley once was like this)

whatever it'll never be the same...

***** i will add more to this thread later, i must continue working right now... i'm sorry *****

P.S. this is just my point of view, i do not care whether you think that i'm retarded or not, but the game HAS CHANGED and i know a lot of people who have quit the game because of all the changes...

why do you think that Vanilla / TBC private servers are so popular? there's hundreds of thousands of players playing Vanilla / TBC private server... because they want to play the old school World of Warcraft, but Blizzard isn't making their own realms with Vanilla/TBC... and i would never do such a thing as to play a fake-client game... i'm just wishing for retail WoW to become something better... a game as which i dont have to feel "i don't have anything to do" no more...

However, i still enjoy the game... i'm just making this thread simply because; i think that World of Warcraft has lost the spark in a few edges here and there, the game isn't actually RUINED... but for ME... PERSONALLY... it has been digging its own grave... i'm not talking for all of you.... i'm making this thread from MY POINT OF VIEW... MINE ONLY. PERIOD.

there is really so much more to say... i just copy-pasted my old thread

i WANT VANILLA BACK.

** NO FLYING MOUNTS
** NO CROSSREALM
** NO LOOKING FOR RAID TOOL
** NO LOOKING FOR DUNGEON TOOL
** NO BG TOOL
** UPDATED GRAPHICS ARE WELCOME
** OTHERWISE, JUST KEEP IT EXACTLY THE WAY IT WAS IN VANILLA... BEFORE THE PATCH WITH HONOR SYSTEM CHANGES & NEW TALENTS.

i'd love to sub again, if vanilla servers will release
Vanilla is World of Warcraft
TBC is alright but i don't like flying mounts...

the rest is something completely else from WoW... a crap game in disguise...

*** also copied from another thread ***

i've thought about this for a long time, and please let me explain my theory on why new MMORPG's Flop.

the answer is simple for me -> Crossrealm Battlegrounds & Dungeons.

why is that?

well... Imagine starting a complete new game and you have no friends.
you do some quests which (most people find boring, if you're all alone)
but once you hit that limit, may it be 15 or 20... to start doing Battlegrounds or Dungeons, you then finally start seeing other people
but the problem is; you'll never see them again, and you don't have a "blizzard battle tag" to add them to your friendlist unfortunately.
few weeks later, still no friends, well... ONE if you're lucky. but he's soon gone because he feel just the same like you do.

why does this suck? well... people can't get friends, people can't chat and have fun, play together with the little "gang" that we used to have in World of Warcraft back in the days right? i remember having a full friendlist on MY REALM ONLY... that were the days, i could always ask my friends if they wanted to come to a dungeon or if they wanted to help me farm... because we were friends right?

for me, and many of my friends... the community, chatting with random people in Orgrimmar and not just in your guild was very important factor for a game like World of Warcraft, we needed that chatting and having fun, knowing everyone on your own realm.

today i can't even name 1 player on my realm unfortunately.

now you ask; but World of Warcraft have 5,5 subscribers but they have crossrealm?

well yes, in some cases, people in world of warcraft actually have a friendlist with BATTLE TAGS and their friends can go to other realms without being lost, this is the key thing that doesn't apply for ANY OTHER MMORPG that i've played.

i quit guildwars, i quit wildstar, i quit SWTOR, i quit Tera, Rift... god i quit almost ALL NEW MMORPGS for one reason: it felt empty, i had no friends, and once i found someone i liked, we couldn't talk again EVER when we left the BG/Dungeon.

the community is fucked up as it is today... why? well first things first.

1. People don't have friends, so they just queue to whatever they wanna do, BG or Dungeon or a Raid...
2. those people won't ever help you because they've turned into selfish arrogant bastards that don't care about friends they just wanna "play for a while and do what they feel is neccesary" they will never need your help to a dungeon anyways because they can find other teammates in 1 minute using the dungeon tool.
3. Even my irl friends don't give a crap about me and say "i'm very busy" and when i check the friendlist they're in a battleground, like that can't wait? LOL.

anyways... i just wanted to share this information and ask you guys what you think?
is the crossrealm a very BAD THING for a NEW GAME?

- - - Updated - - -

https://en.nostalrius.org/

Nostalrius, the largest Vanilla private server, has been shut down.

EDIT: Thank you all for contributing, both those for and against Nost and those for and against Legacy servers. For those interested, please sign the petition below:

https://www.change.org/p/mike-morhai...raft-community

At the time of this edit, over 200k have shown their support for legacy servers. Let's make it 300k!

MOD EDIT

As of today, 4/27/2016, we've decided to forward all new classic server discussion to this thread. Anyone wanting to discuss the idea of classic servers, how they can be implemented, what is cool about classic, your memories of classic, Nostalrius, and the like will post here.

i WANT VANILLA BACK.

** NO FLYING MOUNTS
** NO CROSSREALM
** NO LOOKING FOR RAID TOOL
** NO LOOKING FOR DUNGEON TOOL
** NO BG TOOL
** UPDATED GRAPHICS ARE WELCOME
** OTHERWISE, JUST KEEP IT EXACTLY THE WAY IT WAS IN VANILLA... BEFORE THE PATCH WITH HONOR SYSTEM CHANGES & NEW TALENTS.

i'd love to sub again, if vanilla servers will release
Vanilla is World of Warcraft
TBC is alright but i don't like flying mounts...

the rest is something completely else from WoW... a crap game in disguise...

[DeusX]

Some of my old WoW-friends are actually exited about the idea of official Vanilla/BC servers!

They werent coming back for Legion but this idea of classic servers actually got them interested again.

Yeah, and they will come back, stay for a while, loose interest and go offline again.


All this nonsense about legacy realm is mind cringing. Why people believe they will play Vanilla again for more than 1 year is beyond me. It will become abandonware very fast after 1st year. But before going down, people will start having demands to Blizz like:
- add this or that feature (picky) from live to legacy (every class will demand something, even the smallest thing)
- maybe add dk's/monks/whatnot? this for sure will pop as soon as Blizz will announce legacy servers (if ever)
- ...

If I were blizz and I was considering to introduce this, I would make all these petition signers pay 3 years subscription in advance and only after 250k people pay up I would start taking action. And also no requests to implement features from live to legacy!

- - - Updated - - -

i'd love to sub again, if vanilla servers will release
Vanilla is World of Warcraft
TBC is alright but i don't like flying mounts...

the rest is something completely else from WoW... a crap game in disguise...

Would you pay at least 3 years in advance the subscription for this?