[7.0] New Paladin Abilities and Talents

[Deleted]

Who do you think you are? An Arms warrior?!

:P

The new ret pally does seem to go a bit into that direction though.

[Deleted]

The new ret pally does seem to go a bit into that direction though.

Minus the mobility and healing debuffs naturally.

[Deleted]

Minus the mobility and healing debuffs naturally.

Yes naturally, we can't let it get out of hand.

Besides we have ashbringer so we got enough.

[Ulthane]

@ruiizu Yea, something feels like it is missing to be sure.
@Storm the Sorrow ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude

[Inquisit]

The auras of the Holy paladins are nice imo. The protection spec seems ok too. My biggest concern is for the Retribution one (which I am currently playing)... The Greater Blessings are not at all in line with the "retribution" idea...

[Teleros]

The Greater Blessings are not at all in line with the "retribution" idea...

They're not very Retribution-y I agree, but in and of themselves I don't think the non-GBoM ones are bad. Nothing wrong with giving a DPS spec some group buffs. I mean, sure they're boring, but that's a different issue entirely to being badly designed etc.

[Inquisit]

Well, I just think GBoK and GBoW should go to the Protection and Holy spec in that order. GBoK is a defensive buff while GBoW is a healing one. Since they try to focus on class fantasy, it would be a much better fit if those greater blessings were in other spec than Ret.

That being said, I agree that the concept behind the non-GBoM is cool. I just disagree with Ret having it. My main argument is simply that it does not feel like retribution, so it is very debatable. Also, I fear that it will put us in a "buff-bot" slot as we will need to cast those GB (might or not) on those who need it the most during any situation, making us cast these spells much more than a regular pre-fight buffs (such as they are in WoD). This means more time buffing and less time dpsing, reinforcing the buff-bot feeling. In fact, I did an analogy yesterday speaking of the Retribution spec as being the squire for the knights in the raid.

Nodoby wants to be a squire in this game.

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We already have many other support spells (LoH, HoF, HoSac, HoProt, etc.) that requires some of our time and that most casual players (or bad players) simply fail to use. Adding more of those spells will simply hinder even more players for the sake of, well, nothing. :P

[Deleted]

Well, I just think GBoK and GBoW should go to the Protection and Holy spec in that order. GBoK is a defensive buff while GBoW is a healing one. Since they try to focus on class fantasy, it would be a much better fit if those greater blessings were in other spec than Ret.

That being said, I agree that the concept behind the non-GBoM is cool. I just disagree with Ret having it. My main argument is simply that it does not feel like retribution, so it is very debatable. Also, I fear that it will put us in a "buff-bot" slot as we will need to cast those GB (might or not) on those who need it the most during any situation, making us cast these spells much more than a regular pre-fight buffs (such as they are in WoD). This means more time buffing and less time dpsing, reinforcing the buff-bot feeling. In fact, I did an analogy yesterday speaking of the Retribution spec as being the squire for the knights in the raid.

Nodoby wants to be a squire in this game.

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We already have many other support spells (LoH, HoF, HoSac, HoProt, etc.) that requires some of our time and that most casual players (or bad players) simply fail to use. Adding more of those spells will simply hinder even more players for the sake of, well, nothing. :P

Maybe you missed the info, but greater blessings will be combat locked. So you can't rebuff it.

[Inquisit]

Maybe you missed the info, but greater blessings will be combat locked. So you can't rebuff it.

I did miss the info! Thanks a lot!

Have they said how it will work if our buffed target dies during the fight?

Also, what I hate the most about that mechanic is that our dps will actually depends on others dps. Yes you can GBoM yourself, but the 2 others will have to be on someone you hope will do enough dps to increase yours. This, I feel, is really not cool for any class, being Ret or not. (Think Dark Intent)

[Teleros]

Have they said how it will work if our buffed target dies during the fight?

1. Working as intended.
2. On the plus side, when YOU die, you'll still do DPS when dead!

No, really.

Also, what I hate the most about that mechanic is that our dps will actually depends on others dps. Yes you can GBoM yourself, but the 2 others will have to be on someone you hope will do enough dps to increase yours. This, I feel, is really not cool for any class, being Ret or not. (Think Dark Intent)

You're not the only one to have problems with it, believe you me.

Oh well. Have fun selling Greater Blessings to people in your raids !

[Taeldorian]

1. Working as intended.
2. On the plus side, when YOU die, you'll still do DPS when dead!

No, really.


You're not the only one to have problems with it, believe you me.

Oh well. Have fun selling Greater Blessings to people in your raids !

Yeah, eventually they'll end up reworking the entire blessings system after they realize how ridiculous it is. I'd also just continue to give feedback so they see it, and know that we think it's ridiculous and hopefully within the month or two left of actual class design they change it.

[Deleted]

Hand of Hindrance is ret only BTW.......

Well , it is a Hand spell , but is it really? Since it is actually only a slow - a good one per effect right , yet inefficient one , but a slow non the less.
Hand of Light was more on line with an actuall Hand spell than Hindrance ever could be.

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We already have many other support spells (LoH, HoF, HoSac, HoProt, etc.) that requires some of our time and that most casual players (or bad players) simply fail to use. Adding more of those spells will simply hinder even more players for the sake of, well, nothing. :P

LoH is a once per fight thing , while it is highly usefull it is still limited and not usable in actuall PvP.
HoF , outside of PvP this has next to no use
HoSac is gone for ret
HoProt is not that really usefull , maybe it will be in Legion but then it is a once per fight tank CD at best. If not and the aggro still resets and half of the shit goes through it will remain are mostly pure PvP Talent.

Having things the Blessing is actually great - if done rightly. Because DPS alone won't cut it and if it has to be that way it has to be massivly supirior just in a way that we have to become mages or Locks in that regard.

[Deleted]

Yeah, eventually they'll end up reworking the entire blessings system after they realize how ridiculous it is. I'd also just continue to give feedback so they see it, and know that we think it's ridiculous and hopefully within the month or two left of actual class design they change it.

I wouldn't hold your breath. So far, in order to attempt to polish this turd, they've only ended up making an even bigger mess.

[ruiizu]

Well , it is a Hand spell , but is it really? Since it is actually only a slow - a good one per effect right , yet inefficient one , but a slow non the less.
Hand of Light was more on line with an actuall Hand spell than Hindrance ever could be.

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LoH is a once per fight thing , while it is highly usefull it is still limited and not usable in actuall PvP.
HoF , outside of PvP this has next to no use
HoSac is gone for ret
HoProt is not that really usefull , maybe it will be in Legion but then it is a once per fight tank CD at best. If not and the aggro still resets and half of the shit goes through it will remain are mostly pure PvP Talent.

Having things the Blessing is actually great - if done rightly. Because DPS alone won't cut it and if it has to be that way it has to be massivly supirior just in a way that we have to become mages or Locks in that regard.

Hand of Hindrance is certainly a "hand" spell, but it's not a very creative one. See things such as the original Chains of Ice for "different" types of snares/rooms. It's just the lack of uniqueness and creativity to the spec. How is Hand of Hindrance any different from Mage's Slow, other than it has a cooldown and doesn't trigger from our main attack?

I just feel like they could have done a better job with our spec specific utility spells, and I think Hands/Blessings are the best area to do it. Hands, naturally, being the offensive line, with Blessings being the defensive line.

Well, it's just kind of whatever. I'm probably filling myself with false hope, but what I wanted was more than just "functional," but "super cool, fun, and effective." Is it that much to ask from Blizzard, a company with everything to give? But hey, if "good enough" or "functional" is what other people want, I can't argue. It's a little sad, perhaps almost depressing, but if that makes them happy...not much you can say.

[Bolt66]

Well, it's just kind of whatever. I'm probably filling myself with false hope, but what I wanted was more than just "functional," but "super cool, fun, and effective." Is it that much to ask from Blizzard, a company with everything to give? But hey, if "good enough" or "functional" is what other people want, I can't argue. It's a little sad, perhaps almost depressing, but if that makes them happy...not much you can say.

I think most people who have been playing Ret for some time, have had this hope pretty much every expansion. Unfortunately, there is a very distinct cycle that we seem to go through each time:

• Blizz makes the announcement and makes a bunch of shiny promises.
• They start putting into place some interesting elements.
• Rets get excited about being competitive and fun.
• They pull the rug from under us and we complain.
• They say it's fine since we don't see their big picture.
• Rets keep complaining.
• They give us a few morsels to appease us and say the rest will be fine after we're tuned.
• Expansion launches and Ret has to deal with bad scaling and mechanics throughout its lifetime.

[Taeldorian]

I wouldn't hold your breath. So far, in order to attempt to polish this turd, they've only ended up making an even bigger mess.

That's because their idea of polish is our idea of crap. They hardly listen to feedback, I mean we did get DP back don't get me wrong that's nice and has good synergy with other things, but no class should EVER have this "blessings" thing as a mechanic, ever. I have no idea who thought of this, but I'd place my bet on the same guy who thought equality was the most beautiful talent in the world aka Kalgan. I'll likely end up as a prot paladin in Legion anyway since that's what my guild is leaning towards.

Either way, this greater blessings thing is stupid, no idea why it's even here still. It's going to take a while for them to realize it's crap but they will eventually. It's a basic fact that if something doesn't work they'll notice, mainly because of two things. 1. Ret would be dead in raids and 2. People will be complaining on the forums/twitter and saying "should've listened to feedback". That's what I see in the future. The gameplay of ret is fun, I can't deny that, but greater blessings just flushes all of that fun down the drain. All I can say is keep providing feedback, hit up twitter if you (generalized) don't have alpha, and wait to see what we get in future builds. If ret is still this clunky "support" machine I'll go prot. Not leaving paladin that's for sure, I can't do that, but I can definitely tank instead.

As Ruiizu already explained, they definitely could've done a better job, the current ret does not feel like the fantasy they described for us. As a company that's been running for 10 years, it's disappointing. I expect this from a game that doesn't have much exp, but they literally have 5 pages+ of feedback every new build along with 10+ years with this MMORPG.

Just look at this and see for yourself:
"To serve as instrument of the Light is to hold an unshakable faith. Oftentimes the most dedicated paladins become fanatical in their devotion, instruments of retribution against those who dare defy the laws of the divine. These paladins are vengeful guardians of the weak—crusaders judging and punishing the wicked. Their resolute conviction in the divine order of all things assures them that victory is inevitable—but they will fight to the end to ensure that the Light prevails" taken straight from the class preview. It seems like we're going to be judging and punishing the wicked through our allys rather than ourselves. I hope it doesn't get this far, but if it does I can't wait to see what the devs have to say about this spec and the feedback they ignored.

[Sungamnori]

Someone on the alpha forums might want to make this minor suggestion for ret talents...

Blade of Wrath: Replaces Blade of Justice, 300% physical damage, with an attack that does 60% holy damage
Virtues Blade: Blade of Justice crits do 3x damage

Assuming these don't change any more... wouldn't it make more sense for the holy damage attack to be called "Virtues Blade"? Virtue just screams "Holy" damage more than a crit buff. Then, Blade of Wrath could be the high crit damage talent.

It just seems like the names would work so much better that way.

[Deleted]

Someone on the alpha forums might want to make this minor suggestion for ret talents...

Blade of Wrath: Replaces Blade of Justice, 300% physical damage, with an attack that does 60% holy damage
Virtues Blade: Blade of Justice crits do 3x damage

Assuming these don't change any more... wouldn't it make more sense for the holy damage attack to be called "Virtues Blade"? Virtue just screams "Holy" damage more than a crit buff. Then, Blade of Wrath could be the high crit damage talent.

It just seems like the names would work so much better that way.

It would be pretty damn amusing if this is actually one of the things that is going to be adressed in opposite to , well the rest.

[Sungamnori]

It would be pretty damn amusing if this is actually one of the things that is going to be adressed in opposite to , well the rest.

You'll get no argument from me there. Things are a shit-show right now. Just struck me as one more little thing...

[Ulthane]

What if they kept the interaction with Judgment and finishers but reversed.

Tv, DS could apply a debuff that Judgment consumed to where Judgment became a type of Finisher?