LFX - why remove the tool?

[Deleted]

Except it is a bad idea. At best it is a nuisance. So, most likely scenario if this was implemented:

"Hey guys, just run past those things they don't drop anything worthwhile" - If you can get there mounted.
"Hey guys, just pop your cooldowns when running past those things" - If you can't get there mounted.
"Hey guys, I'm stuck outside the instance and can't get in, pls halp" - If one guy gets there late and can't get in.

Yes but he already said he does not like that riding allows you to skip mobs, so he would make it so it would not be an option.
And the third one, i think his idea is about being grouped before starting the journey itself, so either the whole group does it or no one does.
He is asking for a whole revamp of design in wow, compared as the design it has nowadays, teleporting is just another part of his whole vision.
I am just explaining what he is demanding, not saying it is a clamor between the playerbase.

[Deleted]

You dont require to level up in zone to port to a dungeon, this a lie, as i already said. I can level up perfectly through dungeon ports from 1-100 and dont see even pandaria, dreanor, outlands, northerend.

Also is not an argument that people have a right to skip something because they see it ONCE. When this would be the case, i would have my npc teleports and free gold.







i give reasons, you simply dont like them. Which is, again, fair enough. But its not undermine mine argument for it





no is not, but you can give me a list of rpgs where this is the case, im eager to know it

i have about 12000 in wikipedia

stop making a fool of your self when you run out of arguments, its pathetic




now you go snarky because you can not argue, great

but you again not answered my question why dont remove all gameplay that feels like a chore so im gonna ignore you like bamby who gets snippy when they dont get their way

My point is that some people won't go out into the open world no matter what. The rest already sees the zones before doing the dungeons there, in general, and as such exploration is not a meaningful point.

Diablo 2 / Diablo 3 off the top of my head. Sure would suck to have to run everywhere all the time instead of using waypoints / town portal. Pretty sure every other MMO uses a teleport system by now, instead of regular travel. Skyrim and Fallout has fast travel. Your move.

I go snarky because you can't differentiate between opinions and facts.

[Deleted]

1) Spending 10 min getting to the instances motivates people to actually complete the dungeon too. Taking your time to get to the instance only to leave half way through would probably get you a bad rep on your server in the long run. In short, if you spend time travelling, you will (or should) feel more committed to the group and the following hour you'll spend together.

No they wouldn't. They would leavejust as much as they are leaving now. They would just stop playing sooner than now.

2) Yes, you'll most likely AFK on the gryphon but this is not a bad thing. 9/10 people use these minutes to bio break, get refreshments etc. So you'll be 100% ready when you get to the dungeon. When you finally land, you'll still have some travelling to do. You spend this time conversing with other people (I know, this is kind of insane). About what wings to do in SM, tactics on certain bosses, about your guild, server, RL stuff or just joking around. Socializing with your group. Finding out who's a nitwit and who's more your type of person. Maybe you'll add them to your friends list.

No you wouldn't socialize if you didn't want to to begin with. Just like you can socialize now if you want to.

3) You'll see the world. When you port around, you don't. Seeing the world is important in an MMO. Like you do in your Garri... eh wait. But seriously, seeing the world, travelling the world, just for the sake of it, adds something to the game. The other side of the spectrum would be a game of menues. Like we have now.

You see the world when you are leveling and questing and doing loremaster. If you don't want to do that because you leveled with dungeons you never cared about it and you wouldn't if the game forces you to.

4) It takes time. Porting is instant. You instantly get to the dungeon, within an hour you'll have your loot. It's too fast, is what I'm trying to say. The people who didn't bother, because the way is too long, would sit in greens in IF. Some kind of gating is important. The travelling is a way of gating content.

And those greens would stop playing because there is nothing for them to do.

5)When you finally get that blue item you wanted so bad, after all the travelling, possibly multiple times, to SM, the reward will feel greater. Because not everyone else did. But you did. Cus you were dedicated, like the rest of your group. Overcoming the trash, bosses but also some tedious tasks is part of dedication. Everyone gets an Ashbringer now...

Everyone gets Ashbringer. Which is a skin. Not everyone will have the same power of Ashbringer. Which is what getting blues is about.

6) RPG. You click a button and you're suddenly on the other side of the continent. It doesn't make sense. It does for Warlocks. But not for the world. Why can and why should the world be able to portal every player to dungeons. It's just not very RP-like. It's convenient. But:

Just like SW having like two residential houses doesn't make sense. It's an RPG but it is also a game. Rp'ers don't have to use any of the QoL stuff in the game. That's why they RP.

7) Convenience killed WoW...

Sure WoW is dead..

[Deleted]

@Degn89

I told you you wouldn't understand.

At the top of my head though (this would apply to a non-xrealm server):

1) Spending 10 min getting to the instances motivates people to actually complete the dungeon too. Taking your time to get to the instance only to leave half way through would probably get you a bad rep on your server in the long run. In short, if you spend time travelling, you will (or should) feel more committed to the group and the following hour you'll spend together.

2) Yes, you'll most likely AFK on the gryphon but this is not a bad thing. 9/10 people use these minutes to bio break, get refreshments etc. So you'll be 100% ready when you get to the dungeon. When you finally land, you'll still have some travelling to do. You spend this time conversing with other people (I know, this is kind of insane). About what wings to do in SM, tactics on certain bosses, about your guild, server, RL stuff or just joking around. Socializing with your group. Finding out who's a nitwit and who's more your type of person. Maybe you'll add them to your friends list.

3) You'll see the world. When you port around, you don't. Seeing the world is important in an MMO. Like you do in your Garri... eh wait. But seriously, seeing the world, travelling the world, just for the sake of it, adds something to the game. The other side of the spectrum would be a game of menues. Like we have now.

4) It takes time. Porting is instant. You instantly get to the dungeon, within an hour you'll have your loot. It's too fast, is what I'm trying to say. The people who didn't bother, because the way is too long, would sit in greens in IF. Some kind of gating is important. The travelling is a way of gating content.

5)When you finally get that blue item you wanted so bad, after all the travelling, possibly multiple times, to SM, the reward will feel greater. Because not everyone else did. But you did. Cus you were dedicated, like the rest of your group. Everyone gets an Ashbringer now...

6) RPG. You click a button and you're suddenly on the other side of the continent. It doesn't make sense. It does for Warlocks. But not for the world. Why can and why should the world be able to portal every player to dungeons. It's just not very RP-like. It's convenient. But:

7) Convenience killed WoW...

But all this doesn't matter because



You already made up your mind.

1. How does it motivate people to actually complete the dungeon? I would argue that whatever goals people have in the dungeon motivates them. So if people suddenly leave because the group is bad or whatever, maybe they had more important stuff to do IRL or they just didn't really want to be there in the first place.

2. You can do breaks when you sign up as well, or just before signing up. I don't spend that time conversing with other people, because I don't care about them. Same thing applies to the majority of players. I have my life and a guild for social stuff, no need to waste time on random strangers.

3. I already see the world when I do relevant open world content, which Legion will have a bunch of. Did it in every previous expansion as well. The only time I didn't was in WoD, because it has been such a shitty expansion.

4. So you want time to play a bigger role than it currently does in what gear people run around in, instead of skill. I disagree strongly.

5. This is entirely subjective. No normal / heroic dungeon loot is going to make me feel like that, and my method of transportation certainly doesn't play a role in it.

6. We never pee or have to eat or sleep. Lots of things going on because gameplay > roleplaying.

7. WoW isn't dead though, and Legion is likely going to be the best expansion ever. I'm looking very much forward to it.

[Deleted]

But if you want that a numbers game. Final fantasy 1-13. so 13 games already here *strokes wiki list.

In at least 4 of them you can teleport around.

[Vaelorian]

Again, not the same thing. Sure you get some good gear for nothing, but you don't actually skip any content.




I understand why you want to remove all of that. I just think more people would leave and the remaining players would still not have their community because noone is playing the game anymore. That is of course just guessing.




Now that I hate. Are normal dungeons not considered dungeons because they are easy? Just because it is not worthy for you, doesn't make it something else than it is.

I wasn't trying to say the same thing. I was trying to say that you took the stance of people in WOW not willing to use "the teleport to everywhere". I sorta debunked it by saying how people will always go for the most efficient way of things. Free mythic loot? Hoorah now I don't have to wipe endlessly for that special piece, I got it just for nothing!!

And no dungeons are dungeons. You know this. Don't bring something new into this. You know full well LFR isn't considered a raid by "raids standards".

[Deleted]

to in adungeon? let mee see that.

You have a teleportiation spell for main cities and areas or a airship.

In X you can port to a dungeon if the savesphere is in a dungeon, but you are just nitpicking here.

[Deleted]

And some people dont gona do a dungeon or raid. So what? Again this is non-argument. And again you bring meaningfull and already seen, i already countered that point that a lot of things in this game does this, like walking to npcs and farming gold. Especially the later one is tideus. Stop bringing the same point, you get the same counter argument when you dont answer to it.



you can not teleport to dungeons either in diablo 2 oder 3 nor in skyrim and fallout which you dont have visited and activated through story and quest interaction.

So yes not only they have more requirements but also have things like attunments, which are not currently in wow. thx for fortiying my point.

i already post a list.

But if you want that a numbers game. Final fantasy 1-13. so 13 games already here *strokes wiki list.




Which "facts", the only fact you claimed until this far was a lie, the rest your opinion of content which dont you enjoy

which facts are you mean exactly?

No, you have to travel there before, that is correct. But implementing a system like that for WoW would take some amount of time (Don't know how much), and it would ultimately be pointless. Because getting to those places is not some kind of achievement. That's the reason fast travel and teleportation exists in those other games, it would be very annoying to have to run all the way there again through content that was no longer relevant to you.

Listing random shit that some RPGs have and others don't is kinda pointless though.

It is a fact that people don't lose out on anything worthwhile by being teleported to the dungeon. Whatever people lose out on is highly likely to be very subjective in nature, which is why a few people don't want others to do it (You), and most other people either don't care or are happy that it is there.

[Deleted]

I wasn't trying to say the same thing. I was trying to say that you took the stance of people in WOW not willing to use "the teleport to everywhere". I sorta debunked it by saying how people will always go for the most efficient way of things. Free mythic loot? Hoorah now I don't have to wipe endlessly for that special piece, I got it just for nothing!!

Yes, getting free lot is efficient. Porting to a dungeon is efficient. Skipping content is not efficient. It's the opposite of why you play the game. So not the same thing. Most wouldn't use a feature like that.

And no dungeons are dungeons. You know this. Don't bring something new into this. You know full well LFR isn't considered a raid by "raids standards".

LFR isn'T considered raids by those who feel like "plebs" shouldn't be able to set foot in their precious raids. But okay, Off topic, sorry.

[Deleted]

7. WoW isn't dead though, and Legion is likely going to be the best expansion ever. I'm looking very much forward to it.

Yep so do i, i am looking forward to the mythic+, i think it will save the game FOR ME.
But if we end having another WOD, it is gonna be dead, at least for me.

[Aleks0410]

Bambs and Degn. Let's agree to disagree. You have your opinions and I have mine. It doesn't matter in the end cus we won't play the same servers. I'll either play Pristine, Legacy or Private servers. So it's all good.

The only thing that bothers me is that you somehow see your opinions as facts while mine must simply remain opinions. You don't like socializing outside your guild, that doesn't mean the correct way of designing this game is catering to that.

[Vaelorian]

@Degn89

I told you you wouldn't understand.

At the top of my head though (this would apply to a non-xrealm server):

1) Spending 10 min getting to the instances motivates people to actually complete the dungeon too. Taking your time to get to the instance only to leave half way through would probably get you a bad rep on your server in the long run. In short, if you spend time travelling, you will (or should) feel more committed to the group and the following hour you'll spend together.

2) Yes, you'll most likely AFK on the gryphon but this is not a bad thing. 9/10 people use these minutes to bio break, get refreshments etc. So you'll be 100% ready when you get to the dungeon. When you finally land, you'll still have some travelling to do. You spend this time conversing with other people (I know, this is kind of insane). About what wings to do in SM, tactics on certain bosses, about your guild, server, RL stuff or just joking around. Socializing with your group. Finding out who's a nitwit and who's more your type of person. Maybe you'll add them to your friends list.

3) You'll see the world. When you port around, you don't. Seeing the world is important in an MMO. Like you do in your Garri... eh wait. But seriously, seeing the world, travelling the world, just for the sake of it, adds something to the game. The other side of the spectrum would be a game of menues. Like we have now.

4) It takes time. Porting is instant. You instantly get to the dungeon, within an hour you'll have your loot. It's too fast, is what I'm trying to say. The people who didn't bother, because the way is too long, would sit in greens in IF. Some kind of gating is important. The travelling is a way of gating content.

5)When you finally get that blue item you wanted so bad, after all the travelling, possibly multiple times, to SM, the reward will feel greater. Because not everyone else did. But you did. Cus you were dedicated, like the rest of your group. Overcoming the trash, bosses but also some tedious tasks is part of dedication. Everyone gets an Ashbringer now...

6) RPG. You click a button and you're suddenly on the other side of the continent. It doesn't make sense. It does for Warlocks. But not for the world. Why can and why should the world be able to portal every player to dungeons. It's just not very RP-like. It's convenient. But:

7) Convenience killed WoW...

But all this doesn't matter because



You already made up your mind.

After seeing the comments some people made against your post. I will give up. I have tried myself for a long while. And people ... I don't know if they are trying to troll deliberately or being incapable of understanding how things work and how that works with humans... I actually had hopes when the first few people posted some insightfull stuff.

Bambs, atleast I had a good conversation. But even now I am not sure anymore if you are just wasting my time by not even trying to understand. If I look at your comments you live in a black and white world. Where middle ground or nuance is nowhere to be found.

I might be wrong. I do appriciate that atleast at some points you atleast said that you understand that I like it. Sadly you do not understand why that is.
I like convenience as much as the next guy. I sometimes too know that I am thanking blizzard for that teleport instead of having to pack up and go to the dungeon which might turn out shitty. Sure I get that and I have that. But not having that teleport or crossrealm etc etc etc, ultimately makes the game for me better.
Why? I explained countless times why by now.

[Deleted]

LFR isn'T considered raids by those who feel like "plebs" shouldn't be able to set foot in their precious raids. But okay, Off topic, sorry.

Bambs seriously i do not want to engage you into another discussion, and i think it is legit for everyone to see the content, but they are not raids.
LFR has it´s place in the game and it is gonna be there as long as they keep doing raids, and if people enjoy LFR more power to them, but that is not raiding.

[Deleted]

Bambs and Degn. Let's agree to disagree. You have your opinions and I have mine. It doesn't matter in the end cus we won't play the same servers. I'll either play Pristine, Legacy or Private servers. So it's all good.

The only thing that bothers me is that you somehow see your opinions as facts while mine must simply remain opinions. You don't like socializing outside your guild, that doesn't mean the correct way of designing this game is catering to that.

I'd like a list of where my "facts" are in fact "opinions".

No, I don't like socializing outside of my guild, and my point is that trying to make the game force that unto players is not going to work. At the same time, if people want to be social, all they have to do is chat with people. So many people want some kind of thing implemented in the game to make it more social, but they just don't realize that they can be as social as they want to, and the game doesn't need anything to make it happen.

[Deleted]

Bambs and Degn. Let's agree to disagree. You have your opinions and I have mine. It doesn't matter in the end cus we won't play the same servers. I'll either play Pristine, Legacy or Private servers. So it's all good.

The only thing that bothers me is that you somehow see your opinions as facts while mine must simply remain opinions. You don't like socializing outside your guild, that doesn't mean the correct way of designing this game is catering to that.

Good for you. Good luck on whichever option you can go with. Really.

I don't see my opinion as fact. I understand why you want these changes. I just see that the majority wouldn't want anything like that.

[Deleted]

After seeing the comments some people made against your post. I will give up. I have tried myself for a long while. And people ... I don't know if they are trying to troll deliberately or being incapable of understanding how things work and how that works with humans... I actually had hopes when the first few people posted some insightfull stuff.

Bambs, atleast I had a good conversation. But even now I am not sure anymore if you are just wasting my time by not even trying to understand. If I look at your comments you live in a black and white world. Where middle ground or nuance is nowhere to be found.

I might be wrong. I do appriciate that atleast at some points you atleast said that you understand that I like it. Sadly you do not understand why that is.
I like convenience as much as the next guy. I sometimes too know that I am thanking blizzard for that teleport instead of having to pack up and go to the dungeon which might turn out shitty. Sure I get that and I have that. But not having that teleport or crossrealm etc etc etc, ultimately makes the game for me better.
Why? I explained countless times why by now.

Please stop belittling others, because they don't like what you like. "Sadly you do not understand why that is" - Sure, I understand why you like what you like. That's why I know the vast majority won't like what you like.

[Deleted]

Bambs, atleast I had a good conversation. But even now I am not sure anymore if you are just wasting my time by not even trying to understand. If I look at your comments you live in a black and white world. Where middle ground or nuance is nowhere to be found.

I might be wrong. I do appriciate that atleast at some points you atleast said that you understand that I like it. Sadly you do not understand why that is.
I like convenience as much as the next guy. I sometimes too know that I am thanking blizzard for that teleport instead of having to pack up and go to the dungeon which might turn out shitty. Sure I get that and I have that. But not having that teleport or crossrealm etc etc etc, ultimately makes the game for me better.
Why? I explained countless times why by now.

It's not necessarily black and white. But I still think most wouldn't like these changes and I like my game as it is. With millions of players instead of 100 thousands.

I think I understand why you'd like that. I just don't see it as possible.

[MaylkleemX]

I, for one, do appreciate the LFX tool, however I don't believe it should instantly teleport you to a dungeon. I think this breaks the "realness" of the world, where most of the time I never even know where most of the dungeons are even located or how they even fit into the world.
I think instead you should queue up to a level range, and it would group you with people around your level, and from there, you guys could decide on a dungeon or questing, etc.

[Deleted]

Facerolling lfr is not an achivement either. So i guess this a valid reason to remove it?

Also im not quite sure how much of time/money that would consume actually, they design already outworld content in legion, they only must set some part before the dungeon. Or make something like suramar questiong a attunment. I can not see a hastle in that.



i never disagreed that it is not inconvenience, like farming gold or walking to npcs. I hope you not gonna claim they are not MANY things in the current game which are inconvenint and add nothing to awesome gameplay. This is the reason why i said why not remove all of those things and only the dungeon porting part, it is not consistent and not a well thought argumentation.




you misspelled above 99 %. not "some".



Again, this apply to lot of things. I also dont lose out on content when i would push a button and get ported instant where the transmog item there is which i want. We can even ADD the requirement that i alreadys visited the zone. Which Dungeons dont have. So again, not a very good argument there.




I am the first one here said i dont gonna make judgjement calls who is gona enjoying what, means youre right.

However 1. You have no data who enjoys what (neither i have, so there is no meaning calling some one out)
2. it is not a argument to say "blizzard put in the game so its must be good". You said yourself how wod shiited on everything which also was devoleped by blizzard, the most recently expansion. So i would not take blizzards judgment call that highly

LFR is to see the raid, and get some bad gear that might be an upgrade for very undergeared people. It has a purpose.

Currency has a purpose though, and there is a very obvious reason that we don't automatically have an unlimited amount of it. Walking to npcs is just how the game is, and the quests that suddenly pop up out of nowhere, and turn in at whatever location you are at is an example that sometimes they don't need you to go to an NPC. No, they don't add amazing gameplay, but currency does add something though. You have to manage it. I agree with the NPC turn in thing, but I doubt that will be changed. I don't mind, either.

I could find tons of things that some games in that list have and others don't. Still pointless.

Not sure what you mean here.

No, I don't have any data, but I don't really need any for something like this. People are not morons. People are generally not romantic when it comes to games either. It is primarily a source of entertainment. Which is why proper gamedesign should disregard personal preferences, and look at what is left after that. Transportation to a dungeon consists of 5-10 minutes of mindless running. Most people don't mind it not being a thing they have to do every time they want to run a dungeon.

- - - Updated - - -

so doing exactly what you doint right now?

I'm not belittling you because you like running to dungeons, I might be belittling you because you are very bad at arguing your point, while not being very good at understanding my points either.

[Deleted]

where most of the time I never even know where most of the dungeons are even located or how they even fit into the world.

Because there is something very wrong with the game;
The game should be designed so that exploration and questing were so interesting that you would want to explore it all and see it all.
That way you would know where is every dungeon, and how they fit in the lore/story.
But nobody gives a damn, because gameplay-wise those activities are so bad they are considered a chore instead of gameplay.
And because the gameplay is so bad, there is no content, because once you reach level 100, there is nothing in questing that makes it enjoyable (not for the majority at least).
There is less questing zones in Legion than ever before, and for a good reason, too much effort in doing them and people pass off that content.