Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[kenoathcarn]

yeah well they do this with people geared with ilvl 700

the recommended level from blizzard is 660


if i go with t3 in blackrock i would do the same

I actually remember going back to naxx40 at one point in tbc with a 40man of T4+ geared people and some of the bosses were harder then level appropriate stuff.

I remember the group did it quite a few times and struggled quite a bit only getting past saphiron once or twice. while you can argue that they were not as mechanically complex they were hard for other reasons that were very unforgiving.

There were allot of reasons you couldn't just brute force your way through allot of the content back then regardless of item level as mentioned in a few posts above. you could never just be careless and pull as much as you wanted because you simply didn't have the tools to deal with it.

[Deleted]

This guy does a pretty good job of covering WHY WoW has turned in to a faceroll shit game (for you who wonder why we want the old game back or blizz to change the current).

[SoBBeN1]

I think people focus on the hardcore vs casual thing all wrong. It's not a skill thing, it's a time thing. I'm sure the difficult raiding content is more difficult than vanilla - I don't think there's many people who would argue vanilla raids are super hard..

I'm a casual player these days and guess what? I don't want all my content to be dog shit easy because I'm not in a mythic(?) raiding guild. I still want challenges when I play and I still want progression of my character. I want this from day 1 and ongoing.

I played Nost from September 15. My first level 60 was April. The amount of things I had to do felt overwhelming at times, there was easily content left for me on that level 60 at the pace I was playing for months, without even considering raiding. I was having a blast and it wasn't gonna end any time soon. Did it matter to me that others were running around in full tier 2 or as rank 14's? Not one bit. My content was still relevant - it didn't matter to me that there was content I was not playing, only that there was content I could play, progress in and enjoy!

The last time I tried levelling in retail was so dull I ended up soloing dungeons to create some form of challenge. The fact I could do content that was supposed to be for 5 people as one without over levelling or out gearing it says it all to me.

There tend to be far more casual players than hardcore and I think current WoWs mistake is they believe they are catering to the casual playerbase by allowing them to see all the current content easily. I'd imagine a larger amount of casual players just see this for what it is - a complete lack of fun content available for them - and hence quit.



No.. this is the exact point really. All content was relevant at all times because it was a progression! Nost was just about to be on AQ patch and there were plenty of people still raiding ZG, MC, BWL etc etc and still people like myself even further behind. That meant all that content was still available to people. Unlike retail where only the current patch is relevant. I'm convinced this was one of WoW's biggest ever mistakes.

This is how I feel The game now becomes worthless as soon as a patch kicks in making everything I work for worthless.

[Darktbs]

Why players so obsessed with Raids,dungeons,progression?

Where reputations that have a cool storyline exist?Does it need to offer something to help you with raid?

Why can't we have stuff that is complete separate from the raiding scenario.

MoP and Wotlk have things to do that were end game and you didn't NEED to be a raider to care.I did the dailies from patch 5.1 thinking "Im killing this fucking grunt for the 50 time,but i really WANT to see the next chapter of the questline and i WANT that Gryphon"I learned later that thoses dailies gave Raid gear.

The way people talk about vanilla is a long boring epic journey to 60 and after that a endless grind to the next content.

WoD is no paradaise either since besides leveling and the garrison missions you do,everything else you do point you towards raid."Legendary"Questline endless Lfr farm,Tannan dailies farm Apexis for raid gear.

Doesn't need to be dailies,simple or long questlines that are interesting with good rewards.

Group quests that need group to do so.

Make raids less/more dificult or less/more assecible or being relevant or not will not raise Subscribers.

Im not saying that Dungeons and Raids are not important.But (most)people are not paying xx a month to log once a week (try to) kill bosses then log off.



Or im wrong and im just a wierd for trying to enjoy the rest of the game.

[Froggy]

This guy does a pretty good job of covering WHY WoW has turned in to a faceroll shit game (for you who wonder why we want the old game back or blizz to change the current).

Good video. I think I agree with pretty much every point he brought up.

[Lahiri]

The way people talk about vanilla is a long boring epic journey to 60 and after that a endless grind to the next content.

That's the thing though you are actually discrediting content because you are used to it being pointless. Levelling in vanilla was playing the game, progression of character, talents, professions, questing in zones filled with other players both friendly and hostile + the very group quests and mini challenges you say you enjoy? Everyone enjoys different things so I can't speak for all - but I loved levelling on Nost in this environment. It wasn't a boring grind it was a journey / experience.

I'd just hit 60 on my warlock and some of the things I had to do are similar - for example I was working through quest chain towards my dread steed which involved being out in the world in various zones, trying to accomplish my own objectives whilst being helped / hindered by players around me..

When you get to actual end game in vanilla it was mostly just raiding true, and newer expansions probably do offer more alternatives. If those alternatives were fun / challenging in some way, involved being out in a world interacting with other players... great. My memory is that it's just piss easy solo aspects that offered no fun to me.

Ironically we kinda have the same point? Content doesn't have to be raiding, just available, relevant, fun...

[Chrno]

Why players so obsessed with Raids,dungeons,progression?

Where reputations that have a cool storyline exist?Does it need to offer something to help you with raid?

Why can't we have stuff that is complete separate from the raiding scenario.

MoP and Wotlk have things to do that were end game and you didn't NEED to be a raider to care.I did the dailies from patch 5.1 thinking "Im killing this fucking grunt for the 50 time,but i really WANT to see the next chapter of the questline and i WANT that Gryphon"I learned later that thoses dailies gave Raid gear.

The way people talk about vanilla is a long boring epic journey to 60 and after that a endless grind to the next content.

WoD is no paradaise either since besides leveling and the garrison missions you do,everything else you do point you towards raid."Legendary"Questline endless Lfr farm,Tannan dailies farm Apexis for raid gear.

Doesn't need to be dailies,simple or long questlines that are interesting with good rewards.

Group quests that need group to do so.

Make raids less/more dificult or less/more assecible or being relevant or not will not raise Subscribers.

Im not saying that Dungeons and Raids are not important.But (most)people are not paying xx a month to log once a week (try to) kill bosses then log off.



Or im wrong and im just a wierd for trying to enjoy the rest of the game.

Thorium brotherhood rep mate, classic had REALLY cool rep grinds
And before you guys flame me down, yes it also had some bad ones :P

[Deianeira]

And what about the 66+ streamer who will stream legacy server (its represent 14 Millions suscriber) and a large marketing audiance. Its free for blizzard, they even dont need to market the things..

14 millions subs :
summit1g
lirik
Sodapoppin
nl_kripp
shroud
timthetatman
giantwaffle
anomalyxd
Kinggothalion
forsenlol
reckful
kaceytron
towelliee
miss_rage
ducksauce
bajheera
kungentv
Athenelive
watchmeblink1
hotted89
shortyyguy
Sovitia
cdewx
koopatroopa787
sxyhxy
nmplol
NikolarnTV
Venruki
chinglishtv
snutzy
Brotatoe
hansolgaming
lotharhs
Docgotgame
nomanis
ziqoftw
Djarii
Maldiva
WoWhobbs
talbadar
Minpojke
GaaraBestshaman
elementalqt
Jaxerie
mercadertv
Rikhh
sdigital
nymn_hs
Cartoonzlive
Rzn732
Psynaps
dillypoo69
joefernandes123
jellybeansxo
doomsen
Glinksz
xuenpvp
balancerexxar
elit3tko
nixi93
rubcub
wallabare
xaryulol
Teawrex
legendarylea

Well are you sure all those 14mill subs want to watch them stream that? I don't know all those streamers but I'm sure at least a few of them pretty much mostly stream one or two games primarily. How long until the novelty wears off?

[WhiteEagle888]

http://goldhungary.hu/wp-content/upl...05/25k6geg.jpg

We need this - only 3 zones, 2 races and no raid or endgame content to bother us unnecessarily.
I want a vanilla beta server - let's start a petition! :P

[Gavan]

Thorium brotherhood rep mate, classic had REALLY cool rep grinds
And before you guys flame me down, yes it also had some bad ones :P

Timber Maw...

/Shudder


But you also got firewater from them, which was crucial for initial threat building and overall DPS for melee.

[Deianeira]

I actually remember going back to naxx40 at one point in tbc with a 40man of T4+ geared people and some of the bosses were harder then level appropriate stuff.

I remember the group did it quite a few times and struggled quite a bit only getting past saphiron once or twice. while you can argue that they were not as mechanically complex they were hard for other reasons that were very unforgiving.

There were allot of reasons you couldn't just brute force your way through allot of the content back then regardless of item level as mentioned in a few posts above. you could never just be careless and pull as much as you wanted because you simply didn't have the tools to deal with it.

You know why that was? Because they had never done the content. Also at that time ilvlv difference was not big enough to outright face roll it. I also did this with my guild a few times but every time we filled the raid with pugs it always went to shit even when our raid leader explained mechanics.

[Morbownz]

Timber Maw...

/Shudder


But you also got firewater from them, which was crucial for initial threat building and overall DPS for melee.

Well, the thing with the Timbermaw rep grind was it offered an enchant recipe that could potentially make you a fair amount of gold, and it could also save you some if you were a Rogue for example. Interestingly on Nostalrius and various other private realms I've played on, Guilds will try to build a foundation, they will appoint a player "the guild enchanter" and so on, so this can change (in a players mind) Timbermaw from "just a rep farm" into something that has a meaning towards your Guild progression.

[Sabever]

THE TIDE HAS CHANGED!

This topic has been near and dear to me for some time. I have been following the posts on mmo-champ and battlenet. I have been following the Nost server but never played on it. It is apparent that people in the last two days, have come to the conclusion that a Vanilla server is not such a bad thing.

You have several types of people against Vanilla or would not play Vanilla. You have those who are against vanilla because 1) they are told the game was harder and they feel like that is a slight against them, 2) they have been told that Vanilla was better and they feel like that is a slight against them or the game they currently enjoy, 3) those that played Vanilla and didn't like it, 4) you have those that played it, liked it, but do not want to relive the past, 5) you have those who feel subscriptions would go down because more people would play Vanilla, and lastly you have 6) those that think development would be hurt by the resources being deployed to Vanilla.

First I will address 6. That is not likely true. It is very likely that maintenance and development of a Vanilla server would not take much in terms of resources. Being the devils advocate, even if it did take some up front resources, maintenance would be minimal.

Number 1 and 2 are not legitimate concerns. Those are people who really don't want OTHER people to enjoy the game they love. Numbers 3 and 4 are fair, but many of those posters are not arguing against a Vanilla server, they are just not interested. But lets address number 5.

Number 5 is important. This means that people know their game is garbage and that people would likely leave Legion to go play a better game. That is a sad state and just goes to show just how bad things have become. It is also a legitimate concern for Blizzard as it implies that they don't think they can sell Legion if Vanilla exists because their game is so beyond bad. I actually think that most people would buy both versions (Vanilla and Legion) and at least to some extent, play both. I think it could increase the player count of current content.

You now have dozens of youtubers supporting a Vanilla server. The narrative has gone from "Blizzard has a legal right" to "it is probably time for a Vanilla server".

I also want to address the 250k signatures. Many people are saying that people sign it multiple times. This is true. But you need an email address to submit it. So you have to have opened email addresses. Some say that Bots are signing this. Even though they have no proof and there has been no indication bots have signed it, they still contend it is true. I am not here to say that all 250k signatures are legit, but most are. Even if that number is 150k everyone is assuming one major thing. People are assuming that these are the only people interested in a Legacy server. I contend that more people do not know about the legacy server concept than do. I have many friend who stopped playing. I have spoken to them. They would return to Vanilla. But they do not even know about the petition and have not signed it. You are looking at a tidal wave of support. My evidence is that when WoD started player numbers went back to 10MM for people who thought that returning to Draenor would rekindle the past. Once they quickly realize that the game was just as bad as they remembered, they left.

Vanilla is going to happen and it is going to be huge.

[Lahiri]

Their is weird line of argumetation i seem through the years which reached its highpoint now with the whole legacys servers discussion:


People say Vanilla wow endgame was grindy and only raid.


Now like almost 99 % of this people also claim that lfr is best because back then only less then 1% of players see kel thuzard



So ok get me this straight:


The endgame of Vanilla was almost raiding. And the same people claim raiding was shit back then and is now much better without being, i quote, "special snowflake".

So people claim, maybe without realizing, vanilla has less content, which most of the playerbase would not partcipate. But it has a higher number of subscribsers where in the game now everyone can see kelthzad aka Archimonde in faceroll mode, which results in the lowest subs ever


wut

True point, but:

1) The special snowflake aspect only a few people experienced was just the hardest raids like naxx? Lots more people raided to some extent on vanilla - progressing in ZG MC or whatever. It was raiding still. Relevant content for the people at the progression point. So in other words this was still more content for the average player.

2) As mentioned everyone can experience the last and only current relevant raid content on retail extremely quickly in LFR. After this their current relevant content is exhausted, unless they seek the harder modes for the challenge.. = less content completed much quicker.

3) The alternative aspects of the game that are available in newer expansions do not offer any kind of compelling gameplay.. making them a moot point. I literally lold when I watched a video of artifact quest chain from legion where the final step involved 1v1 against some mob and the player lost literally no hp or mana what so ever. Where's the enjoyment in that?? And that's the whole game, from level 1 to LFR. Coupled with a complete lack of social interaction.. it's killed the game for the average player!

4) Finally... no one is in the world in retail. So much of everything occurred in the world in vanilla leading to player made content occurring constantly. I'm not talking big events here but just small side effects of meeting others out in the world.

Essentially what I'm saying is that everyone being able to experience the last raid instead of just 1% is kind of irrelevant because it's not compelling content. The average player had far more to do + far more compelling gameplay in vanilla than current expansions. The fact most people didn't see naxx doesn't really matter in this.

EDIT: Take my experience on nost as an example. I never raided ONCE. I was playing for 8 months (albeit with not very much time each week), having a blast and always had loads to do before I even reached the first entry raids. So so much content in this sense..

[Lahiri]

I agree with that.


The thing is people are complaining they are not seeing the content, but at the same time getting their demand and seeing it in a fast, no time investment way is bad for the game


its a paradox

Yup! By demanding the content fast they actually have no content. It is a paradox and it's what killed the game imo

[Eliseus]

I wonder how bad the forums are going to be with "I told you so" once these servers launch. Going to be an interesting mess to be cleaning up.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

I wonder how bad the forums are going to be with "I told you so" once these servers launch. Going to be an interesting mess to be cleaning up.

Usually the hype overpowers any of that "I told you so" stuff.

Though one guy DID necro his thread to post "I told you so"s to everyone who doubted him. That was a funny day.

[Eliseus]

Usually the hype overpowers any of that "I told you so" stuff.

Though one guy DID necro his thread to post "I told you so"s to everyone who doubted him. That was a funny day.

Interesting. Haha

[Varaben]

yes, but the time when you come to play is not when other people do. If you come in 3.3 and look for guild to clear Uld, you won't find one, cuz everybody's focused on ICC. I think it'll work the same way on legacy server, won't it? So basically if you come during 1.9 eager to raid BWL or MC, nobody will be doing that cuz of Gates of AQ event.

This is simply not the way the game works when there are no catch-up mechanics and there are serious gear requirements for each stage. People were running Kara until the end of TBC and people were running MC until the end of Vanilla. You had to walk through each tier of raiding unless you found a guild that would carry you. To be fair, TBC started the catch-up game with badge gear getting slowly better and pvp gear creeping up on pve gear.

[Kyanion]

I wonder how bad the forums are going to be with "I told you so" once these servers launch. Going to be an interesting mess to be cleaning up.

Well as for me I have a few different I told you sos. Like the told you so will be after the launch when the novelty wears off and people don't stick around. The told you so could be after the can of worms is opened and people start demanding tbc/wotlk servers. The told you so will be when people bitch for class balancing changes or QOL changes. And good lord if any of THOSE changes happen the shitstorm from the vocal minority pro-legacy people.

And if Legacy servers happen and they are successful and maintain that success for a long period of time I have no problem with people pointing it out and going "Told you so".