New Local Law Says Parents of Bullies Must Pay Fines if They Don’t Control Their Kids

[Deleted]

No. you aren't defending bullying in that manner...but you are still defending it.

Gotcha. So if you are hit, then it's bad, but if you are repeatedly publicly humiliated every day you go to school, that's perfectly ok and we shouldn't do anything to stop it. Do you have any idea how damaging that is to kids? Any clue at all?

From being repeatedly publicly humiliated?!? WTF sort of social skills is that supposed to teach other than making bullied kids turned into introverted anxious adults? What a weird illogical stance you have.

Yup. Because immoral or not 1) it's not harming the kid directly like humiliation and 2) I'm not interested in becoming the thought police.

I give up.

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I don't believe that for a second.

Or is this like one of those situations where kids who were physically abused by their parents become physically abusive towards their own children?

Right, im not defending bullying, but im defending bullying....

You aint got shit, yes, if you get humiliated and then you want to stop with living then there is somethign wrong with you. Everyone gets humiliated every now and then, the way you react to it will determine what will happen in the future.

Things like not caring what other people say and think, just like i really don't give a rats ass that you do not believe that i was bullied. The fact that this doesn't hurt me is because of bullying i stopped giving a crap. And you still do not understand that social skills are not something you are born with, you develop them, bullying is part of that development. See the difficulty now? "banning" a part of a development stage of social skills isn't going to work out well...

Well, if you can't put those two apart, then maybe you should give up. When you look different or stand out in any way, you will get comments on that. This is a fact of life, this is not debatable it just is. That is not defending bullying.. not by a long shot.

Right, now my parents where assholes, i'm starting to think that you have one of those mothers that does not have a particular firm grip....

[Blayze]

I got bullied in school. Teachers did fuck all unless I was the one hitting the dickheads back, then it was ME that got in trouble.

Even the police did fuck all when I was attacked by a kid wielding what at the time seemed like half a damn tree.

The moral of the story is only you can protect yourself, and you NEED to kill them to stop them from coming back for revenge.

Fines won't do shit.

[Dextroden]

I never advocated for zero tolerance (I know you are responding to something else) and in fact stated that each situation would need to be evaluated individually with a significant expectation of proof.

Obviously, to any reasonable person, the situations you outlined would not be bullying (I'm confused about the tree thing though!).

I'd advocate starting with the really obvious bullying. People here are acting like every case of bullying is grey, but some is very clear black-and-white. If we can't get an agreed upon approach for 100% of situations then go for the 80-20 rule.

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Yeah -- although the courts have and will throw out laws if they are too vague.

I think, to everyone's point, these laws can be potentially good if written and executed well, and potentially a nightmare if done sloppily and arbitrarily.

The point, which seems to have gotten lost in the details, is we really should do something about the more egregious cases of bullying in schools today -- especially now that cyber-bullying is so easy to do. (And before someone jumps on that -- yes, people can change their phone numbers or get off facebook or whatnot, but that's a form of victim blaming.)

All of my scenarios were ruled bullying by "reasonable people". Just a reminder that bullying is very much in the eye of the beholder, just like things being offensive.

[Lenonis]

And you still do not understand that social skills are not something you are born with, you develop them, bullying is part of that development.

Thanks for clarifying that anyone who wasn't bullied is developmentally stunted. Do you even read the nonsense you are typing?

[Destump]

I think it's a good idea, but i still believe that the best way to deal with bullies is to make them bleed. Or just hit them until they beg for mercy. The look of fear in their eyes as you learn them a lesson is so satisfying.

[Zethras]

yes?
act like a normal kid and you won't get bullied

This is in the top 8 of the least intelligent shit i’ve read this year, and we aren’t even half way through yet.

[Narwal]

A new ordnance in Shawano, Wisconsin establishes fines for parents who can’t keep their kids from picking on others. Police will now aide the Shawano School District in handling alleged bullies.

This is how it works, as reported by Fox 19. After a kid gets into trouble, cops tell parents and guardians about it, and give them 90 days to correct the child’s behavior. If the kid acts up again, the parent faces a $366 fine. If another offense happens within the year, the parent faces a second fine of $681.

Mother Kyle Jones told Fox 19 her 16-year-old autistic son has been bullied since middle school, and she welcomes the ordnance.

“He shouldn’t have to even deal with it,” she said. “I don’t think he should have to come to me every day and say, ‘Help, it happened again.’ And he doesn’t even act like it’s something that shouldn’t be happening, and it’s not right. And no kid, no kid should go through that.”

Shawano Police Chief Mark Kohl told NBC 26 that the new ordnance will enable authorities to tell parents who don’t know their kids are being bullies. Scott Zwirschitz, the principal of Shawano Community High School told Fox 19 he’d meet with cops to work out the logistics of enforcing the ordnance.

http://lawnewz.com/important/parents...in-their-kids/

The interesting aspect of this, is that this is eventually going to be seen as a racist law that discriminates against minorities. Rich people can just pay the fine and not have to correct a childs behavior. Poor parents will be severely hurt by this, when they find out next months rent has to go to paying for their young teenager with aggressive behavior.

What do you do if your child doesn't change their behavior? Pull them out of school to protect yourself as a parent? Unfortunately, I think bullying should be handled how it's always been handled.

[Yarathir]

That's happened to me alot growing up. Harassed all the time and nobody did anything about it. Then when I fought back I'm the one who got in trouble.

Yeah, I've seen it happen all too often myself. Happened a few times to me too. It just doesn't work.

[iceberg265]

This sounds good in principle, but I do see possibilities for abuse. "Reverse Bullying" if you will. Someone accuses a kid of bullying to bully them by making their parents pay.

[lazypeon100]

What qualifies as bullying? Beating someone up or teasing them? I also foresee a lot of parents who won't teach their child properly and may make things worse.

I'm willing to try it, just not sure if it is fleshed out well enough to actually work as intended.

those kids should be in special schools.
why would they be with the normal kids?

Autism is a spectrum. I have high functioning autism, and I went to special needs schools. I can tell you, there's a good chance I would have been better off in regular schools due to the special needs schools having the work load i credibly slowed down (at least in high school for me).

I come off as weird sometimes because I'll miss social cues and what not. That doesn't make me stupid, or deserving to be bullied. What you're doing is victim blaming kids because they may act differently than whatever you think is normal.

Not cool.

[Vexatio]

This isn't about preventing it, because you simply can't

This sentence right here is where I lose respect for your argument.

So don't even try? Or blame the victim for not being "tough enough?"

"no blood, no foul" might work in a game of street basketball, but in real life it isn't as simple as you want to paint it. Or are you saying that only physical bullying counts?

[Indigenously Abled]

Making parents responsible for parenting is a slippery slope.

Wait. What?

[Deleted]

This sounds good on paper and is ment for the better but i can see this being abused and can be used in such a way that it reinforces bullying trough fine threats and such.

[Aori]

yes?
act like a normal kid and you won't get bullied

So because I was blind in one eye, wore glasses, had a necrotic disease which left me with an extremely noticeable limp and was the smallest student for almost the entirety of my school years it was my fault I got bullied?

[Lenonis]

This just seems like more "safe space" nonsense being created for a non existent issue.

Wait...bullying is a non-existent issue?

[Lenonis]

The kind of bullying that truly deserves attention, yes.

The problem, however, as I mentioned earlier is that society has a sad tendency to either turn a blind eye to bullying or to even go into victim blaming mode. "kids will be kids" "johnny just needs to toughen up" "kids just need to fight it out sometimes"

Then the kid gets bullied even worse for tattling. I don't agree with a zero tolerance approach and I agree that there is a line where it isn't true bullying anymore, but as a society we need to get a lot better at teaching kids there is a consequence for being a bully. And really -- for the more egregious bullying out there I can't understand why people seem inclined to ignore it. It's pretty awful.

[Vexatio]

This law isn't a gateway for the collapse of civilized america by opening everyone up to a lawsuit for not being nice.

The first, and most important part of it, is increasing awareness. A warning is issued, from the police department, to the parents of the bully. They get notified of unacceptable behavior and have a 90-day period to get their house in order (figuratively speaking)

The school isn't going to have cops serve notice for a single instance of making fun of strange fashion choices. We're talking about something serious enough for the school to contact the police about. They aren't going to be a school's first step in the escalation of discipline by any means.

It will remove deniability ("oh, no one ever said billy was doing bad things at school. why is this the first i've heard of it??) and give parents plenty of time to discuss, evaluate, and if they want conduct their own investigation before the threat of a fine approaches.

Why is this a bad thing? Anyone imagining that anytime a kid makes a joke they can expect the cops at their door is grasping at straws. That just isn't how schools work. There's already a convoluted system put in place by school boards regarding what is and isn't bullying, demerit systems, and varying tiers of punishment to deal with it. The cops are not step one. Even if the school has a resource officer (mine does) they aren't the first stop on the discipline train.

[Hammerfest]

This sounds good in principle, but I do see possibilities for abuse. "Reverse Bullying" if you will. Someone accuses a kid of bullying to bully them by making their parents pay.

My thoughts exactly.

[lazypeon100]

And studies have shown that high functioning autistic people can appear as "normal" during adulthood because they learned to adapt and fake social cues. If you'd been in a normal school, when you farted out loud repeatedly in class, the comments and reactions from your classmates would have "trained" you not to let that happen.

I don't know your particular circumstances, but I had a 400 level class in college with someone who did just that. He never understood why no one wanted to work with him or participate in group discussions.

That's the problem with this law. It doesn't define bullying. Being disgusted by someone who doesn't practice good hygiene may be considered "bullying", where as a normal person would quickly learn that they need to bathe and wear deodorant. No one is arguing that the nerdy kid should have to endure physical or constant verbal abuse. But being told that you're "weird" is a vital part of human socialization. That's why home school kids appear so much more awkward than those who go to a public school.

If you want to be a 17 year old boy who wears my little pony clothes, go for it. You shouldn't have to worry about being assaulted. But you should also expect to be shunned from your peers because that's a severely abnormal behavior. Civility and tolerance are learned behaviors. And we learn them through various social interactions in our life. This just seems like more "safe space" nonsense being created for a non existent issue. If your kid is being cyber bullied, be a fucking parent and talk to the other kids parents or get your kid off Facebook. If being called a "fag" on Facebook is enough to push you over the edge, you aren't prepared to enter the adult world. You think if Obama gave one fuck what some loser posted on Twitter he'd be the president?

For me, I can miss when people are joking (unless it is really obvious) or I just come off as awkward. Even in special needs schools though, for the situation you described, most students I was with wouldn't tolerate that. That's different than being bullied though. That's going "hey, please don't fart around everyone if you can help it."

I do agree with your assesment that this law doesn't define bullying. It's unclear exactly what qualifies as bullying, which means ultimately this law will fail. For instance, I don't think teasing and what not counrs as bullying. I do think harming someone physically or constantly harrassing them with vitriol is though.

For thinga like facebook, I think kids need to be taught how to handle abusive dickwads better. I didn't really start using the internet til I was about 10, and I simply either A) ignored the insults or B) didn't even understand half of them because they went over my head. That was from playing warcraft 3 and moving on to WoW when that was released. For anyone who seriously harrasses others online, kids should be taught to tell their parents so they can decide if there's actually a serious problem, or if their child needs to leaen how to grow thicker skin.

[Deleted]

Thanks for clarifying that anyone who wasn't bullied is developmentally stunted. Do you even read the nonsense you are typing?

No, not being bullied, but bullying, reading can be sooo hard some times..

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This sentence right here is where I lose respect for your argument.

So don't even try? Or blame the victim for not being "tough enough?"

"no blood, no foul" might work in a game of street basketball, but in real life it isn't as simple as you want to paint it. Or are you saying that only physical bullying counts?

So you say that something that can not be prevented should be prevented, and instead of equipping children with the tools to cope with this we should shield our children to the point of them not being able to cope.

It is not blaming anyone, going through a phase where you try to make your self feel better by dominating other things/people is part of developing. Every human being goes through this, some have to stay with it for a longer period, for others its just an experience or maybe even a one time thing. But it is not something you can just "not do" or ban or anything like it. It sucks, i fully agree, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't serve a purpose.

Its not about "not wanting to try" but rather prepare them for what is to come, when something is inevitable then the best you can do is prepare for the fallout. Of course there are extreme cases where adults have to intervene, but slapping a fine on the parents won't help solve the problem. You have to look at each case and take out the root problem of the bullying, often this will be children from poor families that don't really know to behave. By helping them you will reduce the bullying because the bullies will no longer feel the need to bully. But this is only the case for extreme cases, most of the time it does resolve it self. Disclaimer! However, this should not mean that teachers should not monitor this behavior. It will always happen, but the it is the job of the teacher to be on the lookout for extreme cases of bullying. Even when the teacher only suspects something is wrong they should sound the alarm, and deal with the situation accordingly.