Why is the betterment of humanity seen as a bad thing?

[Goatfish]

I have my own mental issues that might give me a little different insight into peoples actions... but is actual equality and making sure that everyone is cared for really such a terrible thing? It blows my mind that human greed is so deeply ingrained that we would rather watch people starve than ask a billionaire to give their workers higher pay or even just to spend their money at all on improving quality of life.

I understand wanting people to try to help themselves a little, but it seems a common theme that we don't even want them to have the option of asking for help.

[Hammerfest]

I have my own mental issues that might give me a little different insight into peoples actions... but is actual equality and making sure that everyone is cared for really such a terrible thing?

Yes. Few things are more unfair than equality. Inequality is actually more fair that equality... particularly when you're talking about how human beings have historically attempted to establish equality of outcomes. Those with determination and gifts are not permitted to exceed the outcomes of those without those qualities. Of course, the real joke is that (invariably) those who control such attempts/societies set themselves up as above (and therefore unequal to) those they rule.

[Deleted]

I have my own mental issues that might give me a little different insight into peoples actions... but is actual equality and making sure that everyone is cared for really such a terrible thing? It blows my mind that human greed is so deeply ingrained that we would rather watch people starve than ask a billionaire to give their workers higher pay or even just to spend their money at all on improving quality of life.

I understand wanting people to try to help themselves a little, but it seems a common theme that we don't even want them to have the option of asking for help.

There is nothing quite so unfair and contrary to natural justice as forcing equality of outcome by taking away from the deserving to give to the undeserving

[Deleted]

I have my own mental issues that might give me a little different insight into peoples actions... but is actual equality and making sure that everyone is cared for really such a terrible thing? It blows my mind that human greed is so deeply ingrained that we would rather watch people starve than ask a billionaire to give their workers higher pay or even just to spend their money at all on improving quality of life.

I understand wanting people to try to help themselves a little, but it seems a common theme that we don't even want them to have the option of asking for help.

Communism.

The reason it doesn't work is because people who are worthy, who truly contribute to society receive little higher rewards than those that are lazy. In such a system, no one is motivated to contribute. Those who can contribute don't feel like bothering, considering they get the reward anyway, and the moochers don't feel like bettering themselves, also because they receive the rewards anyway.

This is communism. Communism deludes itself with the idea that people will work to better society by their own volition, people really don't do that, well the vast majority don't. An example of utopian communism is the Federation in the Star Trek series - THAT is communism.

[PosPosPos]

Pure "equality" is not achievable. Not yet anyway, nor do I think is a good thing to begin with.

As for reducing the gaps and inequality between people, there's a particular bunch of people, which I will not name but is obvious, who actively works against a more inclusive society by advocating more discrimination between people, whether between the rich and not, subscribing to a failed ideology or not etc.

Hopefully, in less than a hundred years the generation shifts enough to make sure that group of selfish, self-righteous and embittered specimens be relegated to just another dark chapter in human history, like we would view the perpetrators of the Great Leap Forward and such.

[Grimbold21]

Yes. Few things are more unfair than equality. Inequality is actually more fair that equality... particularly when you're talking about how human beings have historically attempted to establish equality of outcomes. Those with determination and gifts are not permitted to exceed the outcomes of those without those qualities. Of course, the real joke is that (invariably) those who control such attempts/societies set themselves up as above (and therefore unequal to) those they rule.

Strange plan that your god has, isn't it?

[Mihalik]

. An example of utopian communism is the Federation in the Star Trek series - THAT is communism.

The Federation on Star Trek is not Communist by any means.

It is a post scarcity society where very few things have material value. Replicators essentially allow people in that universe to convert energy into a wide range of different matter. Which means only the few things that are not energy efficient to replicate have material value.

Think of it like Water Ice as a cod example.

Before widespread availability of cheap refrigeration producing Ice in warm climates was a fairly complicated an expensive process that either involved transporting it extremely long distances or involved the construction of specialized buildings. Which made Ice an expensive luxury item available to only a few.

Today thanks to electric refrigeration we have access to energy efficiently produced fresh ice at a whim. Making ice essentially worthless. Unless produced on industrial scales for specific uses. (Services industry).

The Star Trek universe experienced something similar on a much larger scale.

[May90]

I don't know why. I am pretty compassionate, and I always care a lot about other people - but there are some who care only about their own interests and are willing to walk on others' heads, if it makes their personal situation better. I've never understood those folks; to be fair, I don't think they understand me either.

[Netherspark]

Put simply, the betterment of humanity often comes at the expense of the (powerful) individual.

Selfishness, basically.

[Piglord]

True equality won't happen anytime soon. Most people that talk about it only want it for the rewards and not the effort.

[Mihalik]

Yes. Few things are more unfair than equality. Inequality is actually more fair that equality... particularly when you're talking about how human beings have historically attempted to establish equality of outcomes. Those with determination and gifts are not permitted to exceed the outcomes of those without those qualities. Of course, the real joke is that (invariably) those who control such attempts/societies set themselves up as above (and therefore unequal to) those they rule.

That is not how it works. For 2 reasons.

1, Humans are complex social creatures that organize themselves into interdependent social structures for mutual benefit. These structures are capable of creating other complex systems that smaller groups or individuals are unable to, but once in place it benefits all. Like infrastructure, law enforcement, public sanitation. Humans always organize themselves into societies. It is the nature of things. Societies that are more efficient at distributing their resources for the greatest good always prevail over other competing models.

2, While wealth and power is often inherited the qualities that created them rarely are. A system that wants to promote upward mobility for those skilled or determined needs to provide equality of opportunity. Not outcome.

Very few people advocate for equality of outcome.

[Hammerfest]

Strange plan that your god has, isn't it?

No idea what you're talking about there.

[Shadowferal]

Greed.
People that are on top need people to keep the small jobs running. If everyone was a millionaire then no one would work. It's in the interest of the wealthy to keep most of the population ground down.

[Mihalik]

No idea what you're talking about there.

You are overtly religious and often vocal about it. So he is referring to the part where you talk about "gifts". It sounded like something divinely ordained. As the Koch Brothers or Mitt Romney or Donald Trump was Divinely ordained to be in the positions they are in.

Again actual ambition and skill is utterly disconnected from the outcomes achieved.

Chris Christie didn't work 1000 times harder then Jesus the Mexican gardener to be where he is. Trump didn't work 10000 times harder then Piotr the mechanic in Volgograd, Russia. And you or I didn't work 1000 times harder or with more ambition to be better off than a "cattle farmer" in Uganda who barely survives off his 6 cows that he personally tends to 14 hours a day.

[BuckSparkles]

I have my own mental issues that might give me a little different insight into peoples actions... but is actual equality and making sure that everyone is cared for really such a terrible thing? It blows my mind that human greed is so deeply ingrained that we would rather watch people starve than ask a billionaire to give their workers higher pay or even just to spend their money at all on improving quality of life.

I understand wanting people to try to help themselves a little, but it seems a common theme that we don't even want them to have the option of asking for help.

The world isn't a Disney movie.

That is all that needs to be said.

[PosPosPos]

You are overtly religious and often vocal about it. So he is referring to the part where you talk about "gifts". It sounded like something divinely ordained. As the Koch Brothers or Mitt Romney or Donald Trump was Divinely ordained to be in the positions they are in.

Again actual ambition and skill is utterly disconnected from the outcomes achieved.

Chris Christie didn't work 1000 times harder then Jesus the Mexican gardener to be where he is. Trump didn't work 10000 times harder then Piotr the mechanic in Volgograd, Russia. And you or I didn't work 1000 times harder or with more ambition to be better off than a "cattle farmer" in Uganda who barely survives off his 6 cows that he personally tends to 14 hours a day.

Or the child laborer who works 18 hours a day doing back-breaking work in the fields, only to be looked down and spat upon upon by a certain group of people in the world to be lazy because said child laborer probably has to live off welfare of some sort anyway.

Just adding to what you are saying btw.

[May90]

The world isn't a Disney movie.

That is all that needs to be said.

It might have been one, if people cared about others more than they do nowadays.

[BuckSparkles]

You obviously have no idea what communism is if you think what the OP described is communism.

Yeah, there is a lack of mass murder, political purges, and bread lines in his post.

- - - Updated - - -

It might have been one, if people cared about others more than they do nowadays.

Well, they don't.

Best find your place in the world and live it out like the rest of us.

[PosPosPos]

Best find your place in the world and live it out like the rest of us.

Or just wait for the generation that's responsible for it to pass away naturally, and everyone else can cheer.

[Hammerfest]

You are overtly religious and often vocal about it. So he is referring to the part where you talk about "gifts".

Lots of people who aren't religious call above average natural abilities "gifts."