1. #5001
    Decurse was removed, but spellsteal is still in. It even has a pvp talent that makes it steal everything, but gives it a 15 second cooldown.

  2. #5002
    Quote Originally Posted by whisperingsage View Post
    It even has a pvp talent that makes it steal everything, but gives it a 15 second cooldown
    which is hopefully something they change, since a talent should not really make an ability worse

  3. #5003
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    Worse? Have you seen what a humongous amount of spells you can steal in PvP. In some cases it would make a healer about 50% weaker for the killing.

  4. #5004
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    which is hopefully something they change, since a talent should not really make an ability worse
    Kleptomania sounds like a really solid talent choice to me...time it right and you can really cripple someone buff wise. Might be better in battlegrounds rather than arenas though.

  5. #5005
    Quote Originally Posted by tobindax View Post
    Worse? Have you seen what a humongous amount of spells you can steal in PvP. In some cases it would make a healer about 50% weaker for the killing.
    dps have zero trash buffs, zero raid buffs
    healers have very limited trash buffs, zero raid buffs

    not really seeing the humongous amount of dispelable spells that would have to all be on one target at the same time to make Kleptomania worth taking with a 15 second cooldown

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Kleptomania sounds like a really solid talent choice to me...time it right and you can really cripple someone buff wise. Might be better in battlegrounds rather than arenas though.
    comes down to what you think has more value - the ability to steal 2 or 3 buffs once every 15 seconds, or the ability to steal any buff at any time with no cooldown limitations

    in a battleground where you may have multiple healers giving multiple buffs to one target, then maybe, but in arena/world situations, you won't get enough value out of the spells you steal to make up for the 15 second cooldown
    Last edited by Dizzeeyooo; 2016-05-04 at 12:14 PM.

  6. #5006
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    dps have zero trash buffs, zero raid buffs
    healers have very limited trash buffs, zero raid buffs

    not really seeing the humongous amount of dispelable spells that would have to all be on one target at the same time to make Kleptomania worth taking with a 15 second cooldown
    Well in a ideal world you could grip into smokebomb and use it to dispel everything on him and burst the healer down. I am not a rbg player myself but these kind of plays could be possible in rated battlegrounds I guess.

  7. #5007
    Deleted
    What's a trash buff? Obelisk Kai has a point. I also had in mind that this would be very powerful in battlegrounds that people are spammed with stealable buffs making it almost worthless wasting your time trying to get them all.

  8. #5008
    I have a question for those who have Alpha access here : can you, and if yes, how do you start the second artifact quest ? I can't seem to be able to, and I would like to test Arcane spec with optimized gear rather than upscaled 680 crappy gear.

    Thanks

  9. #5009
    Quote Originally Posted by tobindax View Post
    What's a trash buff? Obelisk Kai has a point. I also had in mind that this would be very powerful in battlegrounds that people are spammed with stealable buffs making it almost worthless wasting your time trying to get them all.
    A trash buff is something you have on yourself or a party member solely to make another person possibly waste a global cooldown dispelling something unnecessary instead of a more valuable buff that you don't want lost. I don't know how applicable it is now that generic dispels wipe everything, but a mage would be much better off if an enemy mage only happened to steal something like Power Word: Fortitude instead of the Hot Streak you're about to use.

  10. #5010
    High Overlord AngelovV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Araitik View Post
    I have a question for those who have Alpha access here : can you, and if yes, how do you start the second artifact quest ? I can't seem to be able to, and I would like to test Arcane spec with optimized gear rather than upscaled 680 crappy gear.

    Thanks
    I asked the same question a couple of weeks ago. Seems that you need to unlock the 3-rd relic slot to be able to pursue another artifact and in order to do that you should complete a specific garrison campaign.

    Edit: Latest news is that you should switch to Arcane spec and the quest will appear, will try it myself when back at home.
    Last edited by AngelovV; 2016-05-04 at 03:26 PM.

  11. #5011
    Personally looking from a PvE perspective, the largest issue I see for the class is the 75 talent tier. Every raider is going to take Ice Floes, therefore it fails to deliver any choice. Please note a gimmick achieve like Socrethar's will have Ring of Frost used.

    Would love to see some movement on it.
    Last edited by gallamann; 2016-05-04 at 03:40 PM.

  12. #5012
    Quote Originally Posted by gallamann View Post
    Personally looking from a PvE perspective, the largest issue I see for the class is the 75 talent tier. Every raider is going to take Ice Floes, therefore it fails to deliver any choice. Please note a gimmick achieve like Socrethar's will have Ring of Frost used.

    Would love to see some movement on it.
    Honest question: What would compete with Ice Floes? I think they're in this situation where if they move it onto any other tier, it's immedietly shouldering out the other options. So the best option is to move it to its own tier and forget about it until later. They obviously noted how good it is, evidenced by how they tried to have it compete with major DPS talents in the beginning. But that didn't work out - so what do they do? It is better than other movement options they've tired (Blazing Speed) so it's not as simple as offering other movement options.

  13. #5013
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarm View Post
    A trash buff is something you have on yourself or a party member solely to make another person possibly waste a global cooldown dispelling something unnecessary instead of a more valuable buff that you don't want lost. I don't know how applicable it is now that generic dispels wipe everything, but a mage would be much better off if an enemy mage only happened to steal something like Power Word: Fortitude instead of the Hot Streak you're about to use.
    It's a gray area because you can't say Power Word: Fortitude is necessarily trash.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Frost1129 View Post
    Honest question: What would compete with Ice Floes? I think they're in this situation where if they move it onto any other tier, it's immedietly shouldering out the other options. So the best option is to move it to its own tier and forget about it until later. They obviously noted how good it is, evidenced by how they tried to have it compete with major DPS talents in the beginning. But that didn't work out - so what do they do? It is better than other movement options they've tired (Blazing Speed) so it's not as simple as offering other movement options.
    The design might be affected by overall statistics. The spell is definitely used a lot by high end raiders but it's very hard to use at the start of learning the class so it's definitely not overused. It would likely need other new powerful movement spells together on the same row, or a nerf (it still can give 5 effective charges if used very carefully, though it's not easy), or to be a global spell.
    Last edited by mmocdc260e8e2a; 2016-05-04 at 04:17 PM.

  14. #5014
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by gallamann View Post
    Personally looking from a PvE perspective, the largest issue I see for the class is the 75 talent tier. Every raider is going to take Ice Floes, therefore it fails to deliver any choice. Please note a gimmick achieve like Socrethar's will have Ring of Frost used.

    Would love to see some movement on it.
    The two other talents might be better choices for questing - same goes for Fire Starter with low-crit lvlup gear. I'm ok with the lvlup/QoL talents, especially with this new retalenting system that has no limitations (reagents). Obviously we don't pick them for raiding, but otherwise they are ok. Until Blizzard offer us interesting and balanced specs/rotations (AoE/cleave/ST), I don't really care about talent choices. Who told us that all of our talents must have an important effect on our rotations/performance? Some definiately don't have to. In the situations where they count, we pick the "to go" one, but during chillout/questing we can pick the ones with fancy animations or better QoL - so I cannot see the problem behind "useless options".

  15. #5015
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost1129 View Post
    Honest question: What would compete with Ice Floes? I think they're in this situation where if they move it onto any other tier, it's immedietly shouldering out the other options. So the best option is to move it to its own tier and forget about it until later. They obviously noted how good it is, evidenced by how they tried to have it compete with major DPS talents in the beginning. But that didn't work out - so what do they do? It is better than other movement options they've tired (Blazing Speed) so it's not as simple as offering other movement options.
    It is a good question. Blizzard created this situation, one would hope they have the ability to create a much better tier.

    My take is people are afraid to advocate change for this tier simply because that could potentially eliminate the clearly superior talent.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovassy View Post
    The two other talents might be better choices for questing - same goes for Fire Starter with low-crit lvlup gear. I'm ok with the lvlup/QoL talents, especially with this new retalenting system that has no limitations (reagents). Obviously we don't pick them for raiding, but otherwise they are ok. Until Blizzard offer us interesting and balanced specs/rotations (AoE/cleave/ST), I don't really care about talent choices. Who told us that all of our talents must have an important effect on our rotations/performance? Some definiately don't have to. In the situations where they count, we pick the "to go" one, but during chillout/questing we can pick the ones with fancy animations or better QoL - so I cannot see the problem behind "useless options".
    If you feel our AoE/ST/Cleave is not up to snuff, then would not a talent tier be the logical choice to provide an answer?

  16. #5016
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost1129 View Post
    Honest question: What would compete with Ice Floes? I think they're in this situation where if they move it onto any other tier, it's immedietly shouldering out the other options. So the best option is to move it to its own tier and forget about it until later. They obviously noted how good it is, evidenced by how they tried to have it compete with major DPS talents in the beginning. But that didn't work out - so what do they do? It is better than other movement options they've tired (Blazing Speed) so it's not as simple as offering other movement options.
    Almost nothing. That's why it should be baseline, and the whole 75 row scrapped and reimagined from scratch, because nobody uses that crap in anything not PvP, bar some extreme cases. Just like the current T45.

  17. #5017
    Quote Originally Posted by AngelovV View Post
    I asked the same question a couple of weeks ago. Seems that you need to unlock the 3-rd relic slot to be able to pursue another artifact and in order to do that you should complete a specific garrison campaign.

    Edit: Latest news is that you should switch to Arcane spec and the quest will appear, will try it myself when back at home.
    Simply respec to Arcane doesn't work for me. I've run across the Mage hall 3 times trying to find a quest : none to be found. But I didn't unlock the Fire 3rd gem yet. Btw is it even possible to unlock it ?

  18. #5018
    High Overlord AngelovV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Araitik View Post
    Simply respec to Arcane doesn't work for me. I've run across the Mage hall 3 times trying to find a quest : none to be found. But I didn't unlock the Fire 3rd gem yet. Btw is it even possible to unlock it ?
    Tried respecing and yeah, doesn't work. About the 3-rd socket... I think it is a lot of work to unlock you should collect all books from the legendary quest and 2 of them are dungeon and raid drops. And I don't even know if this is the only quest you are supposed to finish.

  19. #5019
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by gallamann View Post
    If you feel our AoE/ST/Cleave is not up to snuff, then would not a talent tier be the logical choice to provide an answer?
    I wrote: "Who told us that all of our talents must have an important effect on our rotations/performance?" and not that all talents could turn useless. 1-2 or maybe 3 talent tiers must be enough to fine tune AoE/cleave/ST.

  20. #5020
    Quote Originally Posted by Tirilka View Post
    Almost nothing. That's why it should be baseline, and the whole 75 row scrapped and reimagined from scratch, because nobody uses that crap in anything not PvP, bar some extreme cases. Just like the current T45.
    They can't just give it baseline, because then they're giving us both mobility and extra cc.

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