Current playerbase can't handle Timewalking dungeons level of difficulty?

[Tabrotar]

You can do Ick & Krick with one dps and the healer. Had to do this after our tank left midfight and the other 2 dps where already dead. Other than PoS the magicweaver(?) with her 80% life spell are troublesome if nobody interupts them.

[Jerakal]

Last time I did a Timewalking Dungeon it was pitiably easy. Are people really having trouble?

[Granyala]

Had to do this after our tank left midfight and the other 2 dps where already dead. Other than PoS the magicweaver(?) with her 80% life spell are troublesome if nobody interupts them.

To be precise: the only trouble I had was:

- people being stupid and charging after Garfrost instead of hiding behind Saronite to reset stacks (I just let them morons die)
- trash on the ramp that summons undead Vrykul in groups that do not CC/Interrupt. Mainly problematic due to the CD on dispels and VERY hard ticking DoTs.
- Tyrannus bugged knockback ability that can almost oneshot tanks, esp in conjunction with the tank being iceblocked.

The latter 2 need adjustment by Blizzard. The first is player error, disregarding core mechanics should result in death.

[Socialhealer]

You can do Ick & Krick with one dps and the healer. Had to do this after our tank left midfight and the other 2 dps where already dead. Other than PoS the magicweaver(?) with her 80% life spell are troublesome if nobody interupts them.

had that, whole group died except me the tank, i ressed the hunter as he was the best player, we continued to 2man it np, i guess the poison nova just woke him up.

quite fun as a blood dk where groups die like that, another example is loken, the noobs are yelling in chat, DK RESS THE HEALER, bitch please if you can't do the fight, don't tell me what to do, now you get to watch me solo the boss as i don't need no healing, usually they are very happy to just have the run over with though and i kindly ress them i guess they are used to wiping in most groups.

[Granyala]

I always warn people that P-Nova is dangerous... yet they never believe me.

[Socialhealer]

I always warn people that P-Nova is dangerous... yet they never believe me.

only hits for like 50k? 80k? can't remember xD

[Dristereau]

Most of them are pretty easy. I did Nexus on my DK and pretty much chain pulled most things. Only stopped when I was running of runes/life.

Pit of Saron is a different story however. I feel in there we are tuned for doing ilvl 200 Release Dungeons (Nexus, HoL, Gun'drak, Utgarde Pinnacle) with this being for 232. Anyways I have to take that slowly. Did it the other day as Prot Paladin. Smooth run apart from a quick death on an early trash pack (Patrol jumped in and I splatted). Eventually got to Scourgelord Tyrannus and had about 5 wipes on him, mainly due to me getting one shot or leaving me with 1% and then a quick anything (33k HP, hitting around 32-35k). Ended up having to kite him from around 90% onwards but it died.

Anyways, decided to leave some feedback on the forums about it, after reading a similar US Official Forums post, suggesting either an indication (so you can use AM/CDs) or a damage reduction (So Tanks don't get 1 Hit KO'd). Anyways, got downvoted, told to L2P and that the ability is 'fine' with how hard it hits with no warning and criticized for posting from my Bank Alt. Official Forums are great

[Byggie]

Poorly balanced =/= impossible to heal, or even hard to heal.

I understand your mentality there mate, everything can be easily done by YOU is well balanced. OK. (I'm also not going to question what you are telling us here is true or not. I believe you. I've been a server top druid healer for 3 years, I still find pug timewalker dungeons are harder than mythic 5-men. But OK, probably because I'm a worse player than you and your friends, who, just started playing MMO. It is very possible.)

Back to what I was saying earlier:

Poorly balanced = weird damage pattern and unpredictable damage spikes. These are the two most important things any experienced healers will pay attention to. We can heal them just fine, but they should not exist. I'm not even going to start with the dispell CD they added in MoP is incompatible with some old boss mechanics in legacy instances. Not that it's going to kill my players, but they are not good gameplay design.

Hope my clarification makes it easier for you to understand

[Granyala]

I still find pug timewalker dungeons are harder than mythic 5-men.

I'd estimate PoS is about as hard to heal as M 5mans in 680ish gear.
Naturally M 5mans will be piss easy by comparison if you go in with 720+.

Poorly balanced = weird damage pattern and unpredictable damage spikes. These are the two most important things any experienced healers will pay attention to.

Agreed.
The above is what makes healing TW frustrating at times.

[Byggie]

I'd estimate PoS is about as hard to heal as M 5mans in 680ish gear.
Naturally M 5mans will be piss easy by comparison if you go in with 720+.


Agreed.
The above is what makes healing TW frustrating at times.

Ture True.

Yeah maybe I should take that back, considering I'm completely overgeared

[Orangetai420]

Let me express my polite, but extreme, skepticism at your claim there.

I doubt most of the player population could achieve the dps numbers needed for mythic even on a practice dummy with no other mechanics to worry about.

If you made them do it right now, no practice - then yes, I agree. The game isn't inherently difficult, there is just very little incentive to learn how to play properly. Raiding is not hard, like at all. The only difficult parts of raiding are the logistics and finding competent people - it's not that learning how to play is a challenge, it's that:
a.) there isn't an accessible challenge as you level/gear up - it's all at the very end game, such that the only players that are faced with a real challenge have to dedicate a block of time/weekly schedule to see this content.
b.) related to point a, most players faceroll through the game and either never see a reason to improve or even worse, they become egotistical and actually think they are good.
c.) players are entitled and think their $15 a month gives them the right to see everything, the entitlement is so strong that these players would cry on a forum or blame others before stopping to think that maybe they just never learned how to play.

EDIT: proving grounds are the exception to point a. If you don't cheese it, endless 30 is a nice challenge. Also, I hope my tone does not come off as passive aggressive as this is not my intent.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

The biggest problem is that player's can't overgear Timewalking dungeons. It's the same thing that happens at the beginning of every xpac . Players bitch and moan the dungeons are too hard, not because they actually are, but because they can't zerg/AoE faceroll the entire instance in one pull. The problem isn't dungeons are hard it's that players get use to and spend 95% of their time in dungeons vastly overgearing them so that's what they are accustom to.

I think you're on to something here.

- - - Updated - - -

Much like the item squish and leveling experience post-talent-tree removal, Blizzard put no effort into balancing Timewalking dungeons.

It just baffles me how this big company can't sit one guy aside to make sure it isn't total bullshit.

Instead they create a PTR session and call it a day.

Currently the main problem are old mechanics that were not removed/tweaked. For Pit of Saron it feels as if you're doing Heroic with the minimum i-lvl for Normal version.

I honestly have few problems when I'm the one tanking. I suspect most players who tanked these back in the day will say the same (and have, throughout this thread). If you know how to manage the pulls, when to expect damage, when to use your CDs and how the fights work (run out for explosion, kite the fixate, hide behind ice to drop stacks, don't fight under falling ice, don't face off with empowered boss...), it all feels very familiar and in your comfort zone.

All the problems I've seen were with tanks who didn't know it well and parties who couldn't be bothered to discuss what needed to happen.

The last thing I want is for Blizz to dumb down more content and make it faceroll easy. Too much of that already.

[Surfd]

Much like the item squish and leveling experience post-talent-tree removal, Blizzard put no effort into balancing Timewalking dungeons.

It just baffles me how this big company can't sit one guy aside to make sure it isn't total bullshit.

Instead they create a PTR session and call it a day.

Currently the main problem are old mechanics that were not removed/tweaked. For Pit of Saron it feels as if you're doing Heroic with the minimum i-lvl for Normal version.

Except that from everything I can tell, barring a very small number of outiliers, there is nothing that needs to be "fixed" with the balancing of any timewaling dungeon. No mechanics need to be fixed, and only a few things (such as dispells now having cooldowns) have any real effect on the difficulty of the instances.

They are balanced as they are supposed to be, as a reflection of how they were when they were current content. If you want them tweaked in such a way that they are now "balanced" for "current expantion gear wow", then that would sort of defeat the entire purpose of timewalking as it is intended, now wouldnt it? Not to mention that you would have to continually re-tune them every time a change was made to current character abilities, which is like twice an expantion cycle usually, which would be just stupid.

They also DID account for differences between Launch heroics and ICC heroics when doing the scaling too, since the scaling point for Pit is higher then the scaling point for the other dungeons.

Another thing to consider is that Wrath was still largely a Stam Stacking expantion, and the bosses / content for Pit is likely scaled with that in mind, so when a tank goes into Pit in current gear, rocking his DPS cleave trinkets because he thinks topping the meters is fun, and then bitches about getting oneshot by Tyrannus, he has only himself to blame.

[Breccia]

Another thing to consider is that Wrath was still largely a Stam Stacking expantion, and the bosses / content for Pit is likely scaled with that in mind, so when a tank goes into Pit in current gear, rocking his DPS cleave trinkets because he thinks topping the meters is fun, and then bitches about getting oneshot by Tyrannus, he has only himself to blame.

HAH. I approve. I take TW seriously (more so with strangers) and even in the Pit, I'm okay (not stellar but I haven't died yet). I wouldn't dream of gearing DPS as a tank in one of those, and if I did, you deserve to laugh at my frozen-ass corpse.

[Iskariott]

The pit caused much frustration for me also. No single dps knows the mechanics. they often die and we wipe because of the lack of dps. it is terrible. it is however fun running TW with my girlfriend who is healer. you take in the needed amount of care and get through safly.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

My only real regret for PoS is players don't know the shortcuts we used to take. The trash on that hill is still tougher than the bosses, imho, but these days I sigh and tank it. Used to be we all knew to mount up and ride before Ick's body even hit the ground. The one time I've tried that in TW, needless to say there were clueless stragglers (can't really blame them if they didn't play back then) who hesitated then tried to follow as the trash was spawning. It got very messy rofl.

[Granyala]

Another thing to consider is that Wrath was still largely a Stam Stacking expantion, and the bosses / content for Pit is likely scaled with that in mind, so when a tank goes into Pit in current gear, rocking his DPS cleave trinkets because he thinks topping the meters is fun, and then bitches about getting oneshot by Tyrannus, he has only himself to blame.

I didn't. Yet still got one shot because the random healer can't keep me at 100% HP all the time.

Any other "witty" comments?

[Deleted]

Ive just been kicked from the grp for using Misdirect on a tank in Mana tombs timewalk. Just putted up MD and the tank sayd in chat "kick that huntard"

Oh the skills and brain nowadays. Its actually not getting worse, been like this forever!

- - - Updated - - -

The biggest problem is that player's can't overgear Timewalking dungeons. It's the same thing that happens at the beginning of every xpac . Players bitch and moan the dungeons are too hard, not because they actually are, but because they can't zerg/AoE faceroll the entire instance in one pull. The problem isn't dungeons are hard it's that players get use to and spend 95% of their time in dungeons vastly overgearing them so that's what they are accustom to.

This 100%.

But, you can overgear timewalk Just get all the legendaries and OP trinkets, weps etc etc.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I seriously haven't had any problems with them. I haven;t healed any, but I've tanks and DPSed.

[Punisher069]

This 100%.

But, you can overgear timewalk Just get all the legendaries and OP trinkets, weps etc etc.

Bust out the warglaives for coolness and ridiculous haste.