Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Relapses]

You can go on and keep believing this but I will address each part. If you don't think leveling is important, then we simply disagree. It is ok that you disagree with me.

But if you think people left WoD because of lack of content and garrisons, you are missing the big picture. WoD brought people back in giving them the perception that this would be somewhat akin to TBC. It wasn't. In that the people were not interacting with the world. Is that the fault of garrisons? In a way I can say yes but I think you are missing the point. The point is that all these players came back hoping that WoW would be more like old wow. For the reasons of garrisons and a ton of other reasons (LFG, phasing, fast leveling, no world interactions) it wasn't. Content is not just putting in more raids, more coding, more gear etc. Content is what you make of it. Vanilla content was not limited to AQ, MC or Naxx. The world was the content. You blaming content lulls is really a red herring. It isn't the lulls that caused people to leave, it is the game itself.

You're using a preconceived notion that most of the players who came back for WoD came back because they thought it'd be more like the older versions of WoW then you're turning around and using that same presumptive logic to say clearly players would like Legacy realms for the same reason. I'll agree with you that the lack of content is likely what caused a large amount of players to stop playing in WoD but I can't subscribe to the idea that nostalgia was the reason for WoD's initial burst of popularity. The actual reasons are up for debate -- I'd wager Blizzard internally knows more about this subject than anybody on this forum can claim -- but it doesn't do either side of this argument any favors when presumptive reasoning is used as a foundation for an opinion.

[Eapoe]

You really don't get it. Vanilla is happening. Sorry to disappoint you. Go on and pick another crusade then trying to ruin things that other people want.

It's free to happen whenever it happens, I just hope that if it doesn't happen when you want it (after Kern talks to Blizzard) that you aren't set up for a giant disappointment. Lot of people are just proposing ideas as to why it might not or trying to point out technical reasons it won't happen as quickly as you want it to.

[Deleted]

You really don't get it. Vanilla is happening. Sorry to disappoint you. Go on and pick another crusade then trying to ruin things that other people want.

I cant ruin anything. I am just very concerned and talk about my concerns. I actually even said i think legacy realms could bring some product diversification. What i think which is wrong about the complete Nost debacle is that Nost and Kern both tried to force blizzard into their way. They tried, through hyping the community, to deal as much damage as possible to blizzard, if they are not willing to cater to the minority both are part of.

While they dont even represent the minority.. as Nost literally stole blizzards intellectual propery and Kern is nothing but a freeloader.

I dont know if Vanilla is going to happen. You dont know that as well. The only thing i know is that blizzard should not do what those people want to blackmail them to do with the actions they did. Blizzard should freely decide if they are willing to invest time and money into classic realms or even not.

[Sabever]

So what I'm getting for this is make Legion actually scale to level 160 that takes players roughly 11 days of played time (played, not actual), and then make getting 3 legendaries a requirement for even seeing the first raid, followed up by grinding out rep with 5 factions before being able to step foot into the next one, and then make everyone get BiS gear from the previous raid necessary to see the last raid implemented, which would only be released 5-6 months before the next xpac is released? Oh, I also forgot, make mobs hit really hard so you have to sit and eat after each one is killed. I mean, this would be slowed content that forces people into the world to "meet" each other, right?

As much as I see the sarcasm, what you typed would actually improve the game. In fact, there are at least a dozen youtubers who are advocating something very similar to what you say. Sure, your idea is a bit satirical but I don't think your realize what things actually DO bring players together. One youtuber even pointed out that the things he wanted 6 years ago like LFG and LFR and flying ruined the game and how wrong he was. Now, these players have had an enlightening. Other players (like yourself) might too.

[AeneasBK]

Oh, I also forgot, make mobs hit really hard so you have to sit and eat after each one is killed. I mean, this would be slowed content that forces people into the world to "meet" each other, right?

I mean, sarcasm aside, an environment in which going 1v1 on mobs means you have to eat/drink or bandage every 4th mob greatly encourages "buddying up" when playing. So if you don't *want* to play with others, you can still play, but if you want to get stuff done quickly, you have the option of asking people for groups.

You still get things done quicker when you buddy up on retail. But the difference between having a buddy or going solo is a lot smaller than it used to be. Which is great for the people who mostly enjoy playing solo, no arguments there. But to pretend making it more "difficult/tedious/time consuming/take your pic cba to argue that one" doesn't encourage people to play in groups is daft.

[Sabever]

I cant ruin anything. I am just very concerned and talk about my concerns. I actually even said i think legacy realms could bring some product diversification. What i think which is wrong about the complete Nost debacle is that Nost and Kern both tried to force blizzard into their way. They tried, through hyping the community, to deal as much damage as possible to blizzard, if they are not willing to cater to the minority both are part of.

While they dont even represent the minority.. as Nost literally stole blizzards intellectual propery and Kern is nothing but a freeloader.

I dont know if Vanilla is going to happen. You dont know that as well. The only thing i know is that blizzard should not do what those people want to blackmail them to do with the actions they did. Blizzard should freely decide if they are willing to invest time and money into classic realms or even not.

They did no such thing. The community hyped it. That rock you crawled under with the world blackmail on it looks cozy.

[AeneasBK]

but I can't subscribe to the idea that nostalgia was the reason for WoD's initial burst of popularity.

Myself and certainly a lot of people I talked to before it launched were excited at a return to nostalgic lore figures from warcraft 2 and that "era" of Warcrafts history, I don't know that any of us were expecting a return to the TBC or earlier style of the game. Just the story.

[Deleted]

They did no such thing. The community hyped it. That rock you crawled under with the world blackmail on it looks cozy.

There actually is such thing. Also i dont think a thread like this should be a echo chamber where the ambassadors of legacy celebrate their arrogance. It should be controversial discussions about what could happen and what blizzard probably could do, without any rose tinted goggles which see both Kern and Nostralgius as the heros and Che Guevaras of Classic-WoW.

They are no heroes. Nost are criminals, Kern is a freeloader, who is riding on the classic-nostalgia-wave to get his name known.

[Relapses]

Myself and certainly a lot of people I talked to before it launched were excited at a return to nostalgic lore figures from warcraft 2 and that "era" of Warcrafts history, I don't know that any of us were expecting a return to the TBC or earlier style of the game. Just the story.

I can agree on the lore aspect but I still think it's kind of silly to think that all of the some-odd 6 million people who subbed then subsequently quit WoD did so simply because it wasn't Vanilla/TBC.

[Goondicker]

You're using a preconceived notion that most of the players who came back for WoD came back because they thought it'd be more like the older versions of WoW

I think that's exactly what it was.

That's why I was excited for it. Everyone wanted TBC 2.0 and they got WoD.

[Deleted]

Everyone wanted TBC 2.0 and they got WoD.

Did everyone? How do you know?

[Goondicker]

There actually is such thing. Also i dont think a thread like this should be a echo chamber where the ambassadors of legacy celebrate their arrogance. It should be about controversial discussion about what could happen and what blizzard probably could do, without any rose tinted goggles which see both Kern and Nostralgius as the heros and Che Guevaras of Classic-WoW.

They are no heroes. Nost are criminals, Kern is a freeloader, who is riding on the classic-nostalgia-wave to get his name known.

How many times will the rose-tinted goggles argument be used? It's not valid. Many people actually do want to play an mmo like the old WoW.

I'm not sure why some, like yourself, are so vehemently trying to keep others from getting a version of the game they want to play. What do you gain from their loss?

- - - Updated - - -

Did everyone? How do you know?

Do we really have to link another picture of the sub drops? It's obvious that the majority of those who subbed for WoD did not like it.

[Deleted]

How many times will the rose-tinted goggles argument be used? It's not valid. Many people actually do want to play an mmo like the old WoW.

How many people?

I'm not sure why some, like yourself, are so vehemently trying to keep others from getting a version of the game they want to play. What do you gain from their loss?

I dont think it should happen as Kern and Nost want it to. Criminals and freeloaders trying to force blizzard to do what they want. They wont protect their IP if they did.

I never said Legacy realms should not happen. But blizzard should be able to decide that completely based on their interest to do that. And not because Nost and Kern forced them.

Do we really have to link another picture of the sub drops? It's obvious that the majority of those who subbed for WoD did not like it.

Sure. But you dont know why they didnt like it. You just know about yourself and your friends probably. You say, the people wanted TBC 2.0, while you dont know if they want it.

[Eapoe]

As much as I see the sarcasm, what you typed would actually improve the game. In fact, there are at least a dozen youtubers who are advocating something very similar to what you say. Sure, your idea is a bit satirical but I don't think your realize what things actually DO bring players together. One youtuber even pointed out that the things he wanted 6 years ago like LFG and LFR and flying ruined the game and how wrong he was. Now, these players have had an enlightening. Other players (like yourself) might too.

Ah, but see, here's the problem that a lot of people fail to realize...that is the style of a Korean MMO, a long grindfest in an attempt to drag out content and give the feeling that since you are constantly working towards the goal instead of consuming the goal, that you are in fact doing something meaningful. That was also the style of vanilla WoW. The issue with this way of thinking is that this is not the way most casual players feel anymore. A lot of players these days want things they can consume at their pace, whether it's playing for 10 minutes a day or 12 hours. Blizzard is trying to capture that audience, and while admittedly this alienated the die hard fans of the older genre, it has worked for them to some degree. Last reported numbers per Blizzard was 5.5 million active accounts, last "ripped" numbers showed active wins somewhere in the 1-3 million range. Going by numbers people have posted for the cause of Legacy, that means there are still 750k-275k more players playing retail than Legacy. If MMORPG's are the failing model everyone states then there are still more players looking for how Blizzard is doing it than other games.
Keep in mind the state of newly released MMORPG's like Rift or SWToR, games that started highly populated and fell quickly but still have some success. If people that are going to quote the old way is better of adventure and exploration and the experience of leveling, one should also consider the amount of fall off these games had after players did just that and also measure the current playerbase of said games to WoW.

- - - Updated - - -

I can agree on the lore aspect but I still think it's kind of silly to think that all of the some-odd 6 million people who subbed then subsequently quit WoD did so simply because it wasn't Vanilla/TBC.

It wasn't because people didn't get TBC 2, it's because Blizzard withheld flight for so long, didn't you know this from the other thread going?

[Goondicker]

How many people?

This is a silly question.

But, to humor you, I'd estimate that it's a much higher number than those who want to play Garrisoncraft.

[Deleted]

This is a silly question.

But, to humor you, I'd estimate that it's a much higher number than those who want to play Garrisoncraft.

Thats no silly question as you dont know the answer. Still your act as if you know it.

[Pann]

You really don't get it. Vanilla is happening. Sorry to disappoint you. Go on and pick another crusade then trying to ruin things that other people want.

I think you are going to end up being disappointed if you believe that Blizzard are going to implement Vanilla realms. At present they are playing for time and unless something major happens I cannot see them changing their minds.

[Goondicker]

Thats no silly question as you dont know the answer. Still your act as if you know it.

It's not something that is even remotely possible to answer. If by some act of magic it could be provided, you would still refute it.

Again, your question is silly, to put it nicely.

[Deleted]

It's not something that is even remotely possible to answer. If by some act of magic it could be provided, you would still refute it.

Just dont argument with numbers you dont know anything about. It's very easy. Argument with things you actually know about.

[Relapses]

Do we really have to link another picture of the sub drops? It's obvious that the majority of those who subbed for WoD did not like it.

Again, you cannot prove that "everyone" wanted TBC 2.0. You certainly cannot prove that everybody who quit did so solely because WoD wasn't TBC 2.0. You can reason that the lack of content is what drove people away and I'd agree on that -- but without access to data which specifically indicates the exact reason people left the game, all anybody can do is guess as to why those players actually quit.

How many times will the rose-tinted goggles argument be used? It's not valid. Many people actually do want to play an mmo like the old WoW.

I'm not sure why some, like yourself, are so vehemently trying to keep others from getting a version of the game they want to play. What do you gain from their loss?

Legacy and retail would not be able to co-exist without one affecting the other. If Blizzard were a company with infinite resources and the ability to maintain and preserve Legacy realms at the same level as its retail counterpart, I'm sure we'd already have them. But since they're not, we have to presume that based off of whatever market research they've done, they've found the potential revenue influx bringing back Legacy realms does not offset the development costs necessary for their upkeep. (To that end, this is almost verbatim what Blizzard said in their official response on the subject.) "Just hire the Nost devs and let them do it," is another common response when this is mentioned, but you're comparing apples to oranges since what Nost developed and what Blizzard would release are two entirely separate entities.