Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Pann]

Content drought is also laughable. And it's also a real thing.

Yup, it's real. And they have the biggest team ever™ as well. But don't worry guys it'll be better next time. Although personally I would not call that laughable, more... pathetic.

[PenguinChan]

Well, let's take a look at the Nost numbers shall we? According to Nost by word of mouth, they had 1 million total accounts made with at the end only 150k of those still active. So, roughly 85% of the playerbase, people that were playing for free mind you, quit the "vanilla feeling." So, according to all the posts, let's say the assumed numbers of 3 million people are still playing on live right now, with WotLK being the highest amount of subs around 11 million back in like 2012, I believe. So, live lost around 80% of its players on an assumed numbers basis over the course of 4 years. Nost lost 85% over the course of 12-14 months of their own posted, substantiated numbers. Going by assumed vs published numbers, Legacy would have a much higher playerbase loss over a much shorter amount of time which also shows a much smaller life expectancy.

I wouldn't call it word of mouth, especially since most private servers have a few individuals who go in with addons that record players. Surprising I know, but people have created them so they could see if servers are actually reporting accurate numbers; at least in the current player list. Some don't and continue doing so, but it's going to be a huge tarnish on a server if they fake the population.

Regardless though, you ignored the fact the active players kept growing. What matters to an MMORPG is its retention rate and growth. Ignoring one side of the coin isn't a good idea, also considering the fact you do realize retail lost more than 6 million in that time span right? Retail loses and gains a lot more than anyone realizes I think, and when they are on a downward spiral with no growth (the losses are greater than the gains) -- that's pretty bad. I'm not saying this won't happen to legacy servers though, because it will. It happens to every single MMORPG no matter how hard you try. It happens to every video game ever made -- it's a product life span.

Nostalrius gained more than it lost, something retail can't say. But this is a sample size, of free players.

[Thimagryn]

No one from the anti or pro crowds really know what the impact on retail would be, if any at all. I don't think Blizzard do either as they were never in a situation like this as far as I know. So there is no benefit in either group here trying to convince the other on their point of view.

The situations are still moderately predictable. I mean we can say we don't know what will happen if Trump really becomes president, but the potential outcome can still be discussed. For example, despite all the talk about the Wall, it's not likely going to be built. We have more than enough information to formulate that conclusion without leaving up to blind faith.

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Yup, it's real. And they have the biggest team ever™ as well. But don't worry guys it'll be better next time. Although personally I would not call that laughable, more... pathetic.

It is pathetic. And to your detriment, mocking it doesn't actually make it go away. It's still as real as it ever was despite how you choose to view it. They will continue to focus new content development on new expansions rather than prolong existing ones.

You can believe the division between Live and Legacy is not important at all. Blizzard still has concerns over it, and that's not going to change just because you choose to discredit the situation. The only real solution is if they find a way to sustain both versions without impacting their overall design and business model. That is why Pristine servers is a thing. It's not the answer to Legacy servers, but it tackles the very issues that I've illustrated - avoid splitting the player base between two types of content while retaining their current business model.

It's really as simple as that. Once you figure out what design and financial goals, then it's really not shocking at all that they would have suggested Pristine Servers or the fact that they reimplemented flying in WoD by requiring you to complete all relevant world content.

This will boil down to a skeptic's point of view - official Legacy Servers will happen but may not make everyone happy. Priority will ultimately come from fulfilling Blizzard's internal design goals and being able to be sustained financially.

[PenguinChan]

It is pathetic. And to your detriment, mocking it doesn't actually make it go away. It's still as real as it ever was despite how you choose to view it.

OT: I'm hoping this new team size equates to faster expansion cycles and more reliable content per expansion, but this is doubtful for now.

[Albimoo]

The situations are still moderately predictable. I mean we can say we don't know what will happen if Trump really becomes president, but the potential outcome can still be discussed. For example, despite all the talk about the Wall, it's not likely going to be built. We have more than enough information to formulate that conclusion without leaving up to blind faith.

I havent had time to catch up on the almost 1300 pages but what has the general consensus been? I assume outcry for blizzard to make their own vanilla server?

I from a personal standpoint dont really care, I like raiding and will continue to do so.

However that said i dont ever see blizzard releasing a classic server for one reason; there is no way that it distinctly benefits the live version of the game (which blizzard has stressed is what they really care about. There are 2 possible outcomes
1) Players not currently subbed come back to play on the vanilla server (No effect on live version)
2) Players currently playing live quit so they can play on the vanilla (negatively effects by stopping expansion sales, decreasing playbase etc...)

There is no scenario I can see in which the live version benefits. Would seem relatively counter intuitive to split their player base.

[PenguinChan]

There is no scenario I can see in which the live version benefits. Would seem relatively counter intuitive to split their player base.

Most likely Blizzard won't segregate the subscription costs if they release legacy, so you'd most likely get to play retail as well as legacy. This would make it so you also have two options to play as a retail player -- and a legacy player. Let's not forget that MMORPGs will always have content gaps and playing either retail or legacy would help fill in that gap. I'd assume legacy would be subscription only, or ride off the back of retail purchases.

Not to mention that Blizzard wouldn't be dumb enough to force people to choose one or the other.

[Pann]

It is pathetic. And to your detriment, mocking it doesn't actually make it go away. It's still as real as it ever was despite how you choose to view it.

You can believe the division between Live and Legacy is not important at all. Blizzard still has concerns over it, and that's not going to change just because you choose to discredit the situation.

Err? What? At this point I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say.

And I never said anything about the division between live and legacy let alone commented on its importance or tried to discredit the situation, whatever that may be.

[Deficineiron]

I cant ruin anything. I am just very concerned and talk about my concerns. I actually even said i think legacy realms could bring some product diversification. What i think which is wrong about the complete Nost debacle is that Nost and Kern both tried to force blizzard into their way. They tried, through hyping the community, to deal as much damage as possible to blizzard, if they are not willing to cater to the minority both are part of.

While they dont even represent the minority.. as Nost literally stole blizzards intellectual propery and Kern is nothing but a freeloader.

I dont know if Vanilla is going to happen. You dont know that as well. The only thing i know is that blizzard should not do what those people want to blackmail them to do with the actions they did. Blizzard should freely decide if they are willing to invest time and money into classic realms or even not.

I won't address kern, I think we both agree on what he is about in this.

the nost folks, I am not sure how much control THEY have at this point. They may well be following a blizzard script (pun intended) which helps them avoid future legal jeopardy while helping blizzard get through movie release and find some way to gimmick something up for the self-annointed ambassadors to show to their followers. For all I know (and I am serious) the entire ambassador schtick was suggested by blizzard to nost.

blizzard can financially ruin those guys most likely if they choose to. blizzard would obviously greatly prefer not to, but just the real possibility of it has to influence how whoever at nost they are talkiing with views the matter as well.

or, when you collide with a fortune 500 company, who typically wins (martyrdom is not a win)?

[Relapses]

I won't address kern, I think we both agree on what he is about in this.

the nost folks, I am not sure how much control THEY have at this point. They may well be following a blizzard script (pun intended) which helps them avoid future legal jeopardy while helping blizzard get through movie release and find some way to gimmick something up for the self-annointed ambassadors to show to their followers. For all I know (and I am serious) the entire ambassador schtick was suggested by blizzard to nost.

blizzard can financially ruin those guys most likely if they choose to. blizzard would obviously greatly prefer not to, but just the real possibility of it has to influence how whoever at nost they are talkiing with views the matter as well.

or, when you collide with a fortune 500 company, who typically wins (martyrdom is not a win)?

Nost could have released their source onto the net and somebody else could -- and likely would -- have hosted the server somewhere where copyright laws are taken less seriously, a la Pirate Bay. For this exact reason, I think the meetings with Blizzard Nost received were contingent upon not releasing the source. If the meetings do not result in Blizzard-sanctioned Legacy realms, I wouldn't be surprised to see the source mysteriously leaked and Nost to re-emerge.

[Thimagryn]

I havent had time to catch up on the almost 1300 pages but what has the general consensus been? I assume outcry for blizzard to make their own vanilla server?

There's two parts to the situation.

A) Blizzard came out with an official statement post-Nost shutdown that basically states their reasons to shut down the servers and their potential options to mimic a 'Vanilla experience' through Pristine servers. This indicates that Legacy isn't happening.
B) They're in talks with Kern and Nost in making Legacy happen. Kern is continually updating twitter, and it looks positive so far.

Despite any public outcry, we won't really know the outcome until we get more information. In the meantime it's pure speculation.

[Eliseus]

Is this one of those more money more problems responses?

I havent had time to catch up on the almost 1300 pages but what has the general consensus been? I assume outcry for blizzard to make their own vanilla server?

I from a personal standpoint dont really care, I like raiding and will continue to do so.

However that said i dont ever see blizzard releasing a classic server for one reason; there is no way that it distinctly benefits the live version of the game (which blizzard has stressed is what they really care about. There are 2 possible outcomes
1) Players not currently subbed come back to play on the vanilla server (No effect on live version)
2) Players currently playing live quit so they can play on the vanilla (negatively effects by stopping expansion sales, decreasing playbase etc...)

There is no scenario I can see in which the live version benefits. Would seem relatively counter intuitive to split their player base.

[Taurustar]

how many online signatures are there now for legacy?

[Zafire]

how many online signatures are there now for legacy?

253k

https://www.change.org/p/mike-morhai...raft-community

[Deleted]

Nost could have released their source onto the net and somebody else could -- and likely would -- have hosted the server somewhere where copyright laws are taken less seriously, a la Pirate Bay. For this exact reason, I think the meetings with Blizzard Nost received were contingent upon not releasing the source. If the meetings do not result in Blizzard-sanctioned Legacy realms, I wouldn't be surprised to see the source mysteriously leaked and Nost to re-emerge.

While i hope very deeply that they did not invite them for that reason, it sounds very logical.

[Surfd]

Most likely Blizzard won't segregate the subscription costs if they release legacy, so you'd most likely get to play retail as well as legacy. This would make it so you also have two options to play as a retail player -- and a legacy player. Let's not forget that MMORPGs will always have content gaps and playing either retail or legacy would help fill in that gap. I'd assume legacy would be subscription only, or ride off the back of retail purchases.

Not to mention that Blizzard wouldn't be dumb enough to force people to choose one or the other.

Completely irrelivant to the topic of splitting the playerbase however. There is no possible scenario where blizzard releases legacy / pristine servers that does not split the playerbase. It does not matter if they are included as part of the base sub, made into a seperate sub, or any other combination of those things you can think of: As soon as blizzard is supporting two distinctly different versions of WoW simultaneously, they have split the playerbase, because a person logged into the "special" version of WoW is isolated / split from everyone on the normal version.

[Struggle]

Completely irrelivant to the topic of splitting the playerbase however. There is no possible scenario where blizzard releases legacy / pristine servers that does not split the playerbase. It does not matter if they are included as part of the base sub, made into a seperate sub, or any other combination of those things you can think of: As soon as blizzard is supporting two distinctly different versions of WoW simultaneously, they have split the playerbase, because a person logged into the "special" version of WoW is isolated / split from everyone on the normal version.

Because people can't play two games at once, right?

During severe content droughts on current-live, yea you're right. The community would take a hit and legacy would grow. But that complaint isn't with legacy servers, it's with the dev team and lack of content.

Otherwise, you're wrong.

[stomination]

how many online signatures are there now for legacy?

Depends if I need to fire up my bot for it.

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Because people can't play two games at once, right?

During severe content droughts on current-live, yea you're right. The community would take a hit and legacy would grow. But that complaint isn't with legacy servers, it's with the dev team and lack of content.

Otherwise, you're wrong.

I'm more likely to play a different game all together. Why would I go from one content drought to back in the past doing content years old?

[Struggle]

I'm more likely to play a different game all together. Why would I go from one content drought to back in the past doing content years old?

I don't know, why would you? I didn't say every WoD/Legion player would go play Legacy if/when content droughts happen...

[Deleted]

Completely irrelivant to the topic of splitting the playerbase however. There is no possible scenario where blizzard releases legacy / pristine servers that does not split the playerbase. It does not matter if they are included as part of the base sub, made into a seperate sub, or any other combination of those things you can think of: As soon as blizzard is supporting two distinctly different versions of WoW simultaneously, they have split the playerbase, because a person logged into the "special" version of WoW is isolated / split from everyone on the normal version.

i think that kind of split would be ok for the game. While i want legacy server really bad, i think pristine server would be the healthier option for the community. Dont like lfr/lfd then go to pristine. No need to whine about it if there was an option.
I think streamlining like LFR and LFD are the biggest reasons why the community is pretty toxic already and feels split.

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I'm more likely to play a different game all together. Why would I go from one content drought to back in the past doing content years old?

Good question, why would you? Do you feel you are forced to?

[Armourboy]

i think that kind of split would be ok for the game. While i want legacy server really bad, i think pristine server would be the healthier option for the community. Dont like lfr/lfd then go to pristine. No need to whine about it if there was an option.
I think streamlining like LFR and LFD are the biggest reasons why the community is pretty toxic already and feels split.

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Good question, why would you? Do you feel you are forced to?

I don't think it is going to matter really. Those who want legacy servers are mainly those who want to play in the Era of Vanilla. Legacy servers have the potential to make money off of players who are completely done with your live product, pristine servers do not hit that audience.

The other group are looking for something to do during droughts. Legacy offers something a bit different but let's you keep much of the feel of WoW that players like.

Frankly I think the only thing Pristine servers will do is offer a short term burst in income from server transfers, although tbh it would probably depend in just exactly what they would do.

One thing is for sure, Pristine servers are not a replacement for those wanting legacy servers. They will still be asking for them.