Legion - Outlaw Discussion

[Mafic]

That's exactly the problem with Talents. They need to make a change in gameplay. Yet Blizzard does nothing and is ignoring feedback since 4 Builds now.

From what I have seen Eoll dem Bones is a fairly fun thing, but true bearing (beeing to mandotory) and RNG make it to inconsistent, so we have a Talent that even TAKES AWAY Gameplay. Because now it an even slower and less fun spec to play where you dont have to make decisions or mange your cooldowns.

Why does Blizzard think that is okay?

Roll the Bones was made base line a while ago as it is no longer a talent. But even as a base line skill it really screws up pacing of the spec.

[Mirem]

The first tier set alone is enough to main a rogue for in Legion!

[kalaratic]

The first tier set alone is enough to main a rogue for in Legion!

well literally anything but the class gameplay is enough to main a rogue for legion it seems

[Deleted]

Roll the Bones was made base line a while ago as it is no longer a talent. But even as a base line skill it really screws up pacing of the spec.

Sry forgot to mention that I mean SnD. Witch it the spec feels slow and boring. With RdB its is fun, but to inconsistent.

[Geckoo]

I have to agree that it feels very uninspiring that the only talent choice related with roll the bones is about removing roll the bones.
- Rigged dice to play RNG on your favor.
- Changing how the roll works exactly to have a higher chance to get several buffs.
- artifact trait that always rolls a separate dice to get one of the buffs (this way it also works with SnD).

There are many ways to make it even more fun, but they leave us with black & white... heavy RNG or no RNG at all. Boring.

[Mafic]

Reducing the CD on Curse of Dreadblades looks good on paper but in reality:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svhYQpJey9Y

[Fenderxx]

Reducing the CD on Curse of Dreadblades looks good on paper but in reality:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svhYQpJey9Y

I think it will be a good CD, and should be used when you get Jolly Roger from Roll the Bones. The healing will negate the damage done, and at the end of the CD, you can re-roll for a better buff as you will be getting so many combo points. Just a thought.

[mindghosts]

"We may not be attentive to other threads on this subject. Please confine discussion in this thread to issues related to this spec only."

Alrighty then. Who wants to post my feedback here? http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20743745422

[Mafic]

I think it will be a good CD, and should be used when you get Jolly Roger from Roll the Bones. The healing will negate the damage done, and at the end of the CD, you can re-roll for a better buff as you will be getting so many combo points. Just a thought.

Eeeeeeeeww.

Jolly Roger will be amazing for PVP but for PVE having to rely on a Jolly Roger roll doesn't make me feel giddy on the inside. Anyways, in the video above the only way you lose that much HP is if combined with AR. I think AR will be saved once you have a True Bearing proc along with MFD, but that is my educated guess.

[Fenderxx]

Eeeeeeeeww.

Jolly Roger will be amazing for PVP but for PVE having to rely on a Jolly Roger roll doesn't make me feel giddy on the inside. Anyways, in the video above the only way you lose that much HP is if combined with AR. I think AR will be saved once you have a True Bearing proc along with MFD, but that is my educated guess.

If gives you an interesting choice I feel. When there is low damage going out, and you can safely go all out (maybe just pop crimson vial) then you will get the most out of your DPS by blowing the CD with True Bearing. However, if you are in progression or a healing intensive fight, then you can use the CD with Jolly Roger to get a DPS boost without killing yourself. Dead Rogues do no DPS as they say. You could also get True Bearing and Jolly Roger.

[Imotbh]

I've been testing many combination of talent in Outlaw during the afternoon and results don't seem to vary a lot. I'm under the impression that it'll end up being "take the gameplay you like the most" since numbers are pretty close anyway. Only SnD and Alacrity are really ahead of their competitors. Concerning row lvl 15 et 45, it looks like it depend on the synergy between them : I had QD giving better results with DS but GS doing better with Vigor for instance. Won't it be a nightmare to Sim? Furthermore, those 2 rows change your gameplay a little bit : sometimes, you pool NRJ for GS to fade and refresh it just before it does because you're sitting at 4CP and GS will give you the 5th one or you keep a Pistol Shot proc (with QD talent) because you're at 5CP and using it would be a waste (or not, it has to be simmed). All in all, it's pretty interesting but I fear we won't get all the answers by the time the expansion is released.

[maddnesskhaz]

If gives you an interesting choice I feel. When there is low damage going out, and you can safely go all out (maybe just pop crimson vial) then you will get the most out of your DPS by blowing the CD with True Bearing. However, if you are in progression or a healing intensive fight, then you can use the CD with Jolly Roger to get a DPS boost without killing yourself. Dead Rogues do no DPS as they say. You could also get True Bearing and Jolly Roger.

Nothing about this particularly reflects what will actually occur in progression - "do less DPS so you don't die" sounds fine in theory, until you realise that plenty of other classes can just do their DPS and not die.

Imagine if you will, Gorefiend's feast phase; a period requiring maximum DPS with fairly heavy raid damage going out. Now imagine you have one class that's losing almost half their health-bar using their maximum DPS abilities. I see a problem.

[mindghosts]

Dont give up guys...

[Soisoisoi]

Dont give up guys...

Too late. It's been like 5 builds with naff all change. Tried so much with Sub too and the only decent thing they've changed is making Shadow Nova not break CC.

[mindghosts]

Thanks for trying guys. If I'm around tomorrow, I'mma be pestering their live stream with Rogue questions/feedback.

[Narokath]

Wrote a small algorithm to determine how many buffs you'd get with RtB and with variable amounts of faces, and a variable amount of dice thrown.

https://repl.it/CLw0/8

First set of values is current RtB Chance at Buffs, Second set of values is if it took the buff of any face that rolled more than 2. The Dice and Faces can be changed.

[Fenderxx]

Nothing about this particularly reflects what will actually occur in progression - "do less DPS so you don't die" sounds fine in theory, until you realise that plenty of other classes can just do their DPS and not die.

Imagine if you will, Gorefiend's feast phase; a period requiring maximum DPS with fairly heavy raid damage going out. Now imagine you have one class that's losing almost half their health-bar using their maximum DPS abilities. I see a problem.

I understand what your saying, and I don't disagree, but it's not worth doing the "max DPS" you can if it kills you. Other classes/specs may not have to make this choice, but if our damage is tuned properly and we can (given the right situation) get that extra damage out of the spec by stacking cooldowns when safe.. that is fine with me.

[Kuroii]

Reducing the CD on Curse of Dreadblades looks good on paper but in reality:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svhYQpJey9Y

man good thing we have a vial that heals us for 30% and on a 30 sec CD!

[Narokath]

If they added one more Dice to RtB, and changed the mechanic to give the buffs whenever you roll double or more for each face. Then I probably wouldn't care as much about Jolly Roger or True Bearing being in the buff list.

You'd have these as your buff chances;

1 Buffs % 19.881687242798353
2 Buffs % 62.114197530864196
3 Buffs % 18.004115226337447

Leaps and bounds better than what it is currently.

[Turtlewithnoshell]

Am I correct in say that using curse of the dreadblades you can get off 6 finishers in that time and take 30% of your health in damage? This seems like in pvp the counter to outlaw burst would be to just swap to thems o they cant use finishers because their hp will get dunked.