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  1. #21
    Wipes on this boss are usually:

    People tunneling not dodging purple adds
    Imps not stunned or interrupted all the time
    Tanks failing and exploding

    If you have a group at range taking care of chains and bating void surges, then it's fine.. Black Holes we usually use Rogues, DKs and Warlocks to soak them, sometimes we sacrifice people when we don't have the proper comp.

    While 2 healing is fine on this boss, you have to remind yourself that advice comes from people who killed it several times and a long time ago. Personally we 4 healed it on our first kill, 3 healed after and 2 healed only when we started pushing speed kills. However, our holy paladin was handling the void surge, I was aoe stunning imps and dpsing and we all had roles to fill, so we didn't stand waiting for stuff to heal..

    Anyways, doing this fight without rogues, mages and death knights is shooting yourself in the foot.

  2. #22
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by PosPosPos View Post
    Well yeah, then and now are two different things.

    People actually needed to 3 heal the fight when 795 rings and ilvl upgrades didn't exist, and had a last phase which lasted long enough to matter(now it's like, if you get more than ~5-6 pulses on progression your dps must have unequipped their weapons and trinkets or something).

    Currently, if you can't 2 heal this encounter, it means half your raid is just stacking up the green debuff the entire time and not moving out at all, because that's literally the only source of attrition damage on this encounter pre last phase. Felshadow explosions are one shots after a certain point anyway, unless you run like 3 disc priests and get them to chain spirit shells(lol).
    I was talking about guilds currently progressing, you still dont see many of them 2 heal. I didnt say at any point it was wrong that they were 2 healing, i just think the healers could improve if they are 2 healing. If their disc is going oom cause hes not casting enough solace then you will have a bad time at last 20% where he is forced to spam shields and probably a couple of PoH, wich he isnt making 100% crit cause hes not keeping AA up.

    Our raid can 2 heal this like we do almost every other boss, but like i said we got a few derps in the group who still make common mistakes in farm content that i really dont feel like "creating" more wipes even tho its not the healers fault. Hell, this week we even wiped on this boss 6 times, because people werent focused enough the whole evening.

  3. #23
    Your comp is honestly not awful. You have 3 DKs so imps should be able to go down relatively well, you have a warrior and shaman so you can lock imps down with capacitor totem and shockwave, both classes should be able to do a strong amount of damage to the imps as well.

    Hunters should kite the void fiends away from your main group if you cannot manage to avoid hitting the voidsteps. Hitting voidsteps should pretty much be drilled into your teams mind that it is likely a wipe if this happens.

    As far as soaking black holes, you can use your death knights for this as well with I think the glyph of Anti Magic shell and some disc bubbles/Clarity of Will on them.

    The mage thing people mentioned with chains is definitely something you should be doing.

    For controlling fire, you can make it so you get very little purple fire if your shaman makes good use of grounding totem with void surge timings. He can do this alone through most of the fight, til about 20% when he starts casting it more frequently, this should make it so you really only need to deal with green fire, which if you take care of imps properly, you should only get from Fel Surge, You can literally stack everyone on one spot, every time, and if they aren't slow, keep the fire fairly well contained, and eventually move from one side of the room to the other if you do start running out of room. The fire doesn't hurt that badly, thought with 2 healing, pending on how comfortable they are with it, you may not be able to do the stacking of the fire in one spot.

    Hope y'all get it soon!

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by shinbout View Post
    I was talking about guilds currently progressing, you still dont see many of them 2 heal. I didnt say at any point it was wrong that they were 2 healing, i just think the healers could improve if they are 2 healing. If their disc is going oom cause hes not casting enough solace then you will have a bad time at last 20% where he is forced to spam shields and probably a couple of PoH, wich he isnt making 100% crit cause hes not keeping AA up.

    Our raid can 2 heal this like we do almost every other boss, but like i said we got a few derps in the group who still make common mistakes in farm content that i really dont feel like "creating" more wipes even tho its not the healers fault. Hell, this week we even wiped on this boss 6 times, because people werent focused enough the whole evening.
    The thing is, p3 doesn't even do enough damage even if the healers aren't good. There aren't enough pulses to make wipes happen.
    "My successes are my own, but my failures are due to extremist leftist liberals" - Party of Personal Responsibility

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  5. #25
    The whole 2 versus 3 healer debate is almost irrelevant to why they are wiping.

    Keep re-arranging deckchairs on the titanic though.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    The whole 2 versus 3 healer debate is almost irrelevant to why they are wiping.

    Keep re-arranging deckchairs on the titanic though.
    Everything else has already been stated, so it's not like you have a point to make anyway when everyone else is talking about small optimizations after the fact.
    "My successes are my own, but my failures are due to extremist leftist liberals" - Party of Personal Responsibility

    Prediction for the future

  7. #27
    Deleted
    I would recomend only 2 tanks, preferably another DPS warrior or Pally for the imps, and going with atleast 4 healers. Oh, and try to have your mages stand as far back as possible behind ranged group, can cheese Empowered Chains with Iceblock/Evanesce so if timed properly it does not even apply.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by SwedetasticGames View Post
    I would recomend only 2 tanks, preferably another DPS warrior or Pally for the imps, and going with atleast 4 healers. Oh, and try to have your mages stand as far back as possible behind ranged group, can cheese Empowered Chains with Iceblock/Evanesce so if timed properly it does not even apply.
    lol 4 healers, this is priceless.

    What damage is there to require such an obscene number of healers?

    Most early progression guilds didn't even run 4 heals simply because it wasn't needed, what an ill-conceived suggestion.
    "My successes are my own, but my failures are due to extremist leftist liberals" - Party of Personal Responsibility

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  9. #29
    7 frikkin melee... I can only imagine the void adds (purple) adds stay up for fucking ever causing a lot of disruption and dps loss...
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  10. #30
    Dreadlord ItsTiddles's Avatar
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    Fire is an issue? Put all the green fire in the same spot and have your monk tank clear it every once in a while. You should never have a purple debuff with a shaman in your group. He should grounding totem it every time.

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  11. #31
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by PosPosPos View Post
    Everything else has already been stated, so it's not like you have a point to make anyway when everyone else is talking about small optimizations after the fact.
    Unless people make mistakes and taking addional dmg and with 1 healer oom thats going to be pretty rough. Again i have nothing against them 2 healing if they can do it on progress, but i think theres nothing wrong with healers improving not just on this fight but future fights and analizing their logs telling them what they could do better

    Quote Originally Posted by SwedetasticGames View Post
    I would recomend only 2 tanks, preferably another DPS warrior or Pally for the imps, and going with atleast 4 healers. Oh, and try to have your mages stand as far back as possible behind ranged group, can cheese Empowered Chains with Iceblock/Evanesce so if timed properly it does not even apply.
    2 or 3 tanking is more of a preference, it just makes black hole soaking easier to 3 tank and theres nothing wrong with that tactic, i dont think getting another dps for imps is really needed either as it doesnt really seem a big problem for them. 4 healers is over the top as there isnt alot to heal on this fight until 20%, and from there you just chain cds. Even if people make mistakes (that arent 1 shot), 3 healers can cover that pretty easy, but even if it doesnt happen often on progress, if they can 2 heal it then it shouldnt stop them.

    I remember 4 healing Beastlord when most guilds 6 healed it, even if i was against it at first it worked out pretty great.
    Last edited by mmoc5829d1e13c; 2016-05-05 at 02:45 PM.

  12. #32
    Deleted
    Well thanks for all the pointers, some look very helpful actually

    We should be back on him tonight so we'll see how it goes.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    7 frikkin melee... I can only imagine the void adds (purple) adds stay up for fucking ever causing a lot of disruption and dps loss...
    And yet, at the same time, they are failing to interrupt/stun/kill the imps in a reasonable time every single attempt. I have to ask, OP, are you guys even trying to control the imps? You have DKs, you have bladestorms, you have leg sweeps, and all of your melee have short duration interrupts. There's no excuse. Obviously most of the raid thinks interrupts are somebody else's problem.

  14. #34
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by PosPosPos View Post
    lol 4 healers, this is priceless.

    What damage is there to require such an obscene number of healers?

    Most early progression guilds didn't even run 4 heals simply because it wasn't needed, what an ill-conceived suggestion.
    We did it cuz people in my guild are legendarily good at blowing up the fires one way or another. >.> Extra Healing CD's always gud.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by SwedetasticGames View Post
    We did it cuz people in my guild are legendarily good at blowing up the fires one way or another. >.> Extra Healing CD's always gud.
    ?

    Felfire annihilations either kill you or don't, having more healers doesn't help one bit unless you run like 3 disc priests and 1 hpally maintaining shields 24/7 on the raid. You are always better off having more dps if you want to deal with explosions, because most mechanics that cause those are trivialized by killing adds and the boss faster. Adding more healers only makes your life more difficult, not easier.

    Healing cds do jack shit on this fight when the last phase can be solo healed on progression these days. Also, this is nearly a one month old thread.
    "My successes are my own, but my failures are due to extremist leftist liberals" - Party of Personal Responsibility

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  16. #36
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by PosPosPos View Post
    ?

    Felfire annihilations either kill you or don't, having more healers doesn't help one bit unless you run like 3 disc priests and 1 hpally maintaining shields 24/7 on the raid. You are always better off having more dps if you want to deal with explosions, because most mechanics that cause those are trivialized by killing adds and the boss faster. Adding more healers only makes your life more difficult, not easier.

    Healing cds do jack shit on this fight when the last phase can be solo healed on progression these days. Also, this is nearly a one month old thread.
    Yeah I know it is old, did not see the notification until yesterday tho. And meh, we did it with 4 healers cuz people being ass in general. >.>

  17. #37
    Herald of the Titans Will's Avatar
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    In addition to working out the actual mechanics and strategies better, you need to have a word with your officers about individual player performance. Some of your DPS are really underperforming for their ilvl.

    Also, interrupts are sloppy. Out of all wipes that night only your two warriors made any real effort to interrupt the imps. The monks and DKs failed miserably at interrupting. Your ret pally did not do a single interrupt (not counting 3 fists of justice over the course of TWENTY SEVEN WIPES. Seriously!) He should be stunning the shit out of those imps on cooldown AND using Rebuke TOO!
    Last edited by Will; 2016-06-03 at 01:42 PM.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    Also, interrupts are sloppy. Out of all wipes that night only your two warriors made any real effort to interrupt the imps. The monks and DKs failed miserably at interrupting. Your ret pally did not do a single interrupt (not counting 3 fists of justice over the course of TWENTY SEVEN WIPES. Seriously!) He should be stunning the shit out of those imps on cooldown AND using Rebuke TOO!
    Yeah lol, happens a lot at this level of raiding. People can't be bothered to hit a spell that is free and off the GCD. If the raid environment is pretty laid back, where the raid leader doesn't get on people's cases, then this crap with people not pre-potting, not interrupting is just going to keep happening. The warriors will just have to carry the raid through this fight b/c warriors = best class.

  19. #39
    Deleted
    Thanks a lot for all the help guys, unfortunately we've gradually lost a few people (probably because of the insane burnout caused by this many xhul attempts without getting anywhere) so we're probably not going to bother trying to kill it before the pre patch.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Willus View Post
    Thanks a lot for all the help guys, unfortunately we've gradually lost a few people (probably because of the insane burnout caused by this many xhul attempts without getting anywhere) so we're probably not going to bother trying to kill it before the pre patch.
    That's unfortunate. I'd recommend maybe giving a site like Open-Raid a shot to see if you can help fill in some of your roster gaps while waiting for the patch to come through. Xhul is definitely a step up in difficulty from the bosses which precede it but it's very controllable and all of its mechanics are predictable... giving up after putting so much work into it seems like a bit of a waste.

    Good luck, regardless.

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