Black Slaveowners during the Civil War

[Daelak]

See. Here is a reasonable post that makes sense that isn't snarky or angry.

Why can't you post like this all the time?

I do, I just know bullshit when I see it.

[Narwal]

To be fair, the notion of there being some grand narrative, can just as easily be a deflection from whatever truth there might be in that narrative. I doubt that slavery is some nonfactor, just because there was black slaveowners as well (still need an answer if this actually isn't taught or accepted as fact).

It doesn't change that slavery was bad. However, it does go against the narrative that whites are bad and blacks are victims. When you see someone today who says they deserve reparations because they are black and thus must have problems because their family was a slave, may be wrong, their ancestors may be one of the slavers. This is a very strong counter point to use against someone when they blame you (for being white and thus clearly a slave owner) for their plight (when they have no clue what their family ancestry is, nor do they understand how they got into their currrent situation regardless).

[sarahtasher]

actually a lot of us are interested in real history not just the history the left wants us to learn as they attempt to revises or ignore the rest because it doesn't fit their narrative
I'm sure if many on the left had the chance and felt like they could get away with it they would teach that Lincoln was a democrat and the KKK was started by republicans

I really don't know what kind of book you read.

[BuckSparkles]

actually a lot of us are interested in real history not just the history the left wants us to learn as they attempt to revises or ignore the rest because it doesn't fit their narrative
I'm sure if many on the left had the chance and felt like they could get away with it they would teach that Lincoln was a democrat and the KKK was started by republicans

What I don't like is people desecrating civil war monuments and what not.

A: The past is the past.

B: Erasing history is never a good thing. It was an ugly part of the USA. But it also shows that we as a nation progressed and freed slaves. A troubled time that we overcame and advanced forward. Memorials of the past are there to remind us of important moments in history that have had a significant impact on our country today.

[Wildtree]

I wonder why the real truth about slavery isn't taught in schools or shown in movies?

Not sure which school you've gone or go to..
Slavery (globally) is very well taught.
That's why I am confused how so many claim that "you don't hear about this"..
Maybe one doesn't hear about it, because it is established history knowledge that lies within the common knowledge range.
If someone doesn't know it, they're either ignorant, didn't pay attention in school, or are simply stupid. One of those three options applies.

[alexw]

Ironically, the enslaved populations mostly became equal because they outnumbered the slaveowners so massively. In the US that didn't happen because the slaves were a small percentage of the total population (maybe 15%). I'd actually argue that today that the remnants of slavery are mostly in existence where we're ok with leaving the poor in a cycle of poverty where working 60 hours a week is barely enough to keep someone alive and they have no chance to get ahead. That's true whether the poor are black or white though, and I'm in favor of trying to fix that problem by raising minimum wage and implementing more basic worker rights than we have today. I'm not in favor of focusing on one race or the other.

There is still very significant racial bias in the US. Its not codified in law as it used to be but it exists nonetheless. Its just that its invisible as opposed to the overt type of racism it used to be, so most people, you included, don't see it and don't think its there. And I'm not saying this just out of belief, there is endless streams of academic evidence that this is so (read the articles if you don't believe me) -

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/at-...ias-does-exist
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/at-...ur-way-of-life

Of course people don't like to think about these things. It makes them uncomfortable. It makes them question their own actions and beliefs. So given its invisible and doesn't inconvenience them it gets swept under the rug.

[Vyxn]

If you were interested in "real" history you'd realize the political parties switched ideals a long fucking time ago. They shared a name, nothing more.

can you please show us these documents, platforms, or agendas that had them switch

[Breccia]

About one percent of American slave owners were black. It was still one of the dumbest things this country has ever done.

[Dug]

can you please show us these documents, platforms, or agendas that had them switch

Google is your friend, I'm not going to hold your hand. If you want to keep spouting that ignorant bullshit of "B-but the democrats back in civil war days!!" go right ahead. I forgot who I was replying to anyways so I'm done discussing with someone who spreads misinformation on the daily.

[BuckSparkles]

Real things that are happening as a result of the guilt narrative:



4. I'm someone who's pretty proud of American history, I think we've been a great country for a long time. We're not perfect, but I think there's been way too much focus on our imperfections recently, witch hunts to find which founding fathers owned slaves, etc. I'm worried that we've lost our sense of who we are and why we've been special.

Unfortunately, we have a group of folks that don't think the USA is special, that we don't deserve to be ahead, and we should lower ourselves to other nations.

Hell, some people even suffer from guilt that the USA is such an amazing county.

- - - Updated - - -

About one percent of American slave owners were black. It was still one of the dumbest things this country has ever done.

What country is free from mistakes?

[zenkai]

Real things that are happening as a result of the guilt narrative:

1. The president and other politicians are pushing to close the wage gap and arguing it's the result of employer discrimination. It's not, it's a result of choices women make. There's an argument that they feel forced to make these choices but it's more complex. They prefer to blame the employers.

2. I've worked in several large corporation where being a woman or a minority was enough to get ahead, even if they were bad at their jobs. I had to work with a lot of incompetent people who were unable to be held accountable for their incompetence, it's a huge pain in the ass.

3. As a minority you have a much easier time getting into an elite college.

4. I'm someone who's pretty proud of American history, I think we've been a great country for a long time. We're not perfect, but I think there's been way too much focus on our imperfections recently, witch hunts to find which founding fathers owned slaves, etc. I'm worried that we've lost our sense of who we are and why we've been special.

I have experienced the same.

[alexw]

It's hard to heal the wounds of the past with people constantly bringing it back up as a reason to stay angry

One of the reasons conflicts like Israel-Palestine, or clash of civilisations type conversations keep occurring is that people just keep dredging the past up to rattle the present

There's enough challenges in the world today - like actual slavery in Asia in 2016 bigger than slavery ever was in the USA - for us to not require using the past as an excuse to not get along in the present

Bingo! You are doing exactly what I am saying people, including you, are doing. Its a past wound, so lets forget about it.

The problem with that narrative is that there is a heck of a lot racial discrimination still going on but its just not out in the open as it used to be. People are not angry because of slavery 150 years ago, they are angry because significant racial discrimination exists today. With big data we can look at this and have, and what's more we have found that these angry people are right.

You can read some of it here -
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/at-...ur-way-of-life

I am sure I can find endless more streams of it too if you'd like.

[Reeve]

Google is your friend, I'm not going to hold your hand. If you want to keep spouting that ignorant bullshit of "B-but the democrats back in civil war days!!" go right ahead. I forgot who I was replying to anyways so I'm done discussing with someone who spreads misinformation on the daily.

No one will ever go out and research something that doesn't confirm their bias.

"Google is your friend" and "Go do some research" doesn't change anyone's opinions and just pisses people off more.

[zenkai]

Unfortunately, we have a group of folks that don't think the USA is special, that we don't deserve to be ahead, and we should lower ourselves to other nations.

Hell, some people even suffer from guilt that the USA is such an amazing county.

- - - Updated - - -



What country is free from mistakes?

They shouldn't worry much, our government is doing a great job of making sure it's no longer an amazing country, a long with with college brats and their safe zones.

[BuckSparkles]

Bingo! You are doing exactly what I am saying people, including you, are doing. Its a past wound, so lets forget about it.

The problem with that narrative is that there is a heck of a lot racial discrimination still going on but its just not out in the open as it used to be. People are not angry because of slavery 150 years ago, they are angry because significant racial discrimination exists today. With big data we can look at this and have, and what's more we have found that these angry people are right.

You can read some of it here -
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/at-...ur-way-of-life

This is a serious question.

Do you think any of the things in the article that was listed was due to a troubling culture that exists in black communities?

Because I think part of the problem is a glorification of unproductive lifestyles and people, and a seemingly anti-educational mindset.

A black kid who studies hard and is respectful is seen as "acting white" by his peers, and is treated poorly.

Somehow, that culture needs to change. They need new figures to look up to, and new lifestyles to embrace.

[Reeve]

They shouldn't worry much, our government is doing a great job of making sure it's no longer an amazing country, a long with with college brats and their safe zones.

Right, because "safe zones" are such a big problem, right?

I've lived in this country all my 32 years, and I've never once actually encountered a "safe space." For something that doesn't really affect life at all, people seem to spend a lot of time freaking out about it.

[BuckSparkles]

They shouldn't worry much, our government is doing a great job of making sure it's no longer an amazing country, a long with with college brats and their safe zones.

A sad truth.

People are worried about Trump taking power. I am more worried about 15-20 years when the safe space generation starts taking government jobs.

What a joke we will truly be then. Hopefully those fragile children will grow up....

[Deleted]

Bingo! You are doing exactly what I am saying people, including you, are doing. Its a past wound, so lets forget about it.

The problem with that narrative is that there is a heck of a lot racial discrimination still going on but its just not out in the open as it used to be. People are not angry because of slavery 150 years ago, they are angry because significant racial discrimination exists today. With big data we can look at this and have, and what's more we have found that these angry people are right.

You can read some of it here -
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/at-...ur-way-of-life

I am sure I can find endless more streams of it too if you'd like.

I'm not denying slavery and racism happened, of course they did

My ancestors were victims too, it would be in my interest to claim foul and ask for reparations, but I don't because I'm not looking for handouts

But really, it's not relevant to our lives, there's less discrimination now than ever (in the west), we need to solve current issues (which hilariously no one has mentioned still, despite me pointing it out several times: slavery is at an all time high! Just not in the USA)

Also, isn't it also unfair to blame currently alive people who never owned slaves or had anything to do with slavery?

I mean we don't blame people from Rome today for their ancestors having a bunch of German (or indeed North African) slaves, right

[Dug]

No one will ever go out and research something that doesn't confirm their bias.

"Google is your friend" and "Go do some research" doesn't change anyone's opinions and just pisses people off more.

Vynx is not a user who's up for debate no matter the evidence you throw in their face. Not going to bother, it's common knowledge the parties switched platforms a time ago. Modern democrats are on every level different than their civil war counterparts.

[Daelak]

This is a serious question.

Do you think any of the things in the article that was listed was due to a troubling culture that exists in black communities?

Because I think part of the problem is a glorification of unproductive lifestyles and people, and a seemingly anti-educational mindset.

A black kid who studies hard and is respectful is seen as "acting white" by his peers, and is treated poorly.

Somehow, that culture needs to change. They need new figures to look up to, and new lifestyles to embrace.

And your thinking on that subject is wrong. The only semblance of sense your opinion is making is the wholesale resentment of inner city blacks that have been stuck in deliberately segregated intergenerational poverty of law enforcement, education, politicians, basically anything that has to do with the system in which has kept them from living a life with dignity.