[LEGION]: FROST Death Knight

[Halliax]

I think Icecap + Killing Machine Change, will make wonders to our crit scale, but I still think Mastery will be better on the last tier(more gear)...I think we gonna have a softcap on crit and haste...

[nathrizarri]

I think Icecap + Killing Machine Change, will make wonders to our crit scale, but I still think Mastery will be better on the last tier(more gear)...I think we gonna have a softcap on crit and haste...

Only reason why Crit was going down in Live was increase on Haste>>KM procs. Live Crit is still strong on AoE. Even if we preserve our current stat>damage conversion in legion with the new Frost, things would be ok.

Mastery for Legion offers nothing but flat dmg increase meanwhile Crit/Haste are rotation/gameplay changers.

Example for legion

%50 Crit.

If new KM system can provide more than %50 Crit obliterates, that is a + on crit. Keep in mind that runes have CDs and proper managed runes can provide much higher % of crit Obliterates, especially on higher crit ratings where KM will be avaible for most of the time to use.

[Halliax]

Only reason why Crit was going down in Live was increase on Haste>>KM procs. Live Crit is still strong on AoE. Even if we preserve our current stat>damage conversion in legion with the new Frost, things would be ok.

Mastery for Legion offers nothing but flat dmg increase meanwhile Crit/Haste are rotation/gameplay changers.

Example for legion

%50 Crit.

If new KM system can provide more than %50 Crit obliterates, that is a + on crit. Keep in mind that runes have CDs and proper managed runes can provide much higher % of crit Obliterates, especially on higher crit ratings where KM will be avaible for most of the time to use.

Nahh...I´m getting myself some 70% crit rate, and spam Frostschyte!! That spell looks nice!!! =D

[friedmudkipz]

Not sure how blizz is going to make BoS work with frost. I understand spec fantasy and all that, but unholy BoS worked because death coil isn't a crazy rp dump. Frost already has FS as a very high-damage rp spender, and blizz will just have to keep buffing BoS until it surpasses FS in damage per rp, or haste would have to get so crazy that you would lose runes/rp to being gcd capped without BoS. The latter seems unlikely, the former would make BoS a pretty boring choice. Not sure what else they could add to spice it up (voidform-esque progressing % damage buff?).

Crit interaction seems like an actual solution to KM ruining stat scaling though, I like it.

[Halliax]

Not sure how blizz is going to make BoS work with frost. I understand spec fantasy and all that, but unholy BoS worked because death coil isn't a crazy rp dump. Frost already has FS as a very high-damage rp spender, and blizz will just have to keep buffing BoS until it surpasses FS in damage per rp, or haste would have to get so crazy that you would lose runes/rp to being gcd capped without BoS. The latter seems unlikely, the former would make BoS a pretty boring choice. Not sure what else they could add to spice it up (voidform-esque progressing % damage buff?).

Crit interaction seems like an actual solution to KM ruining stat scaling though, I like it.

Now, talking seriously, BoS need to deal enough damage to be beat Frost Strike runic dump + Glacial Advance + Skillcap...But if the tune is done properly I can see a good game play...a Build with BoS+Gathering Storm+Avalanche with that legendary(double erw) could give us a good option of burst spec with a Mastery+Haste build or we can choose play using Icecap+Frostscythe in a Mastery+Crit heavy build...
But I´m a little worried, if blizzard tune Frostscythe crits to deal more damage on single target than Obliterate+0,45 chance rime proc, it will be a matter of time until we are spaming frostscythe....

[nathrizarri]

BoS turns your single target RP to multiple targets.

[friedmudkipz]

BoS turns your single target RP to multiple targets.

It still asymptotically approaches 200% of single target damage though right? Not really much of an aoe ability.

[nathrizarri]

It still asymptotically approaches 200% of single target damage though right? Not really much of an aoe ability.

Still an improvement. Disregard the numbers, BoS has a unique playstyle. This by itself is a reason to choose it for some.

[Baddok21]

The end result of stacking crit in Legion as Frost will be KM will feel useless.

as most of us are raiding Mythic as Unholy right now you probably have already noticed your crit rate (barring frost 4 set) is pretty much the same as a Frost DKs.

Its my only disparaging thought about legion Frost mechanics, KM has always devalued crit, but in legion with such good crit scaling (30% on OB, Fscythe with 4x crit dmg etc) Crit will devalue KM instead of KM devaluing crit.

especially now that KM Only affects OB baseline and Fscythe. why not change KM to

Killing Machine
Your next Obliterate will deal 40% addtional dmg and 60% against targets below 35% health (a small refernce to the old Execute mechanic frost had in WotLK) and Frostscythe will deal 50% additional dmg as a dot over 6 seconds.

[nathrizarri]

The end result of stacking crit in Legion as Frost will be KM will feel useless.

as most of us are raiding Mythic as Unholy right now you probably have already noticed your crit rate (barring frost 4 set) is pretty much the same as a Frost DKs.

Its my only disparaging thought about legion Frost mechanics, KM has always devalued crit, but in legion with such good crit scaling (30% on OB, Fscythe with 4x crit dmg etc) Crit will devalue KM instead of KM devaluing crit.

especially now that KM Only affects OB baseline and Fscythe. why not change KM to

Killing Machine
Your next Obliterate will deal 40% addtional dmg and 60% against targets below 35% health (a small refernce to the old Execute mechanic frost had in WotLK) and Frostscythe will deal 50% additional dmg as a dot over 6 seconds.

I think you are missing a crucial point in legion KM.

Lets just forget about Frostscythe/Ob and go to basics for a second. In order for this demonstration to work Lets assume DK can use 6 runes within a minute, 1 rune avaible each 10 second. You have 1 ability and it costs 1 rune and benefits from KM.

To be able to crit them all you need %100 crit without KM.

The moment you have 6 KM procs in minute and use a rune to consume it, you achiev %100 crit for that ability.

Now we need to look at our crit to make a conclusion, lower the crit you have to achiev this, higher it's value. Lets say with %20 crit you can have 6 KM in a minute. That is practically like having %100 crit for that ability with only %20.

This is my friend, a net scaling +. If you can have 3 procs with %10, that is still a + on crit, since scaling is the same. However if you have %30 crit and generate 9 KM procs while being able to spend only 6, Crit's scaling will go down, BUUUUUUT

You are still getting %100 crit for having 30. It is just not as epic as before.

[nathrizarri]

Build 21655


Razorice from %8 to 10:

This may influence a dual razorice build+shattering strikes talent to create more room for Frost Strike damage amplification. However dual razorice has a distinct punishment for big AP scaling abilities and non frost damage(Obliterate/Melee).

Summon Syndragosa 27000+ %200 of AP

%200 AP seems not bad, Legion will merge scaling more to AP from 2ndary stats but how well it is going to be compared to the rest of the kit? Basically a Rime HB every 5 minute. I think we need more damage from Syndra. This ability does not like dual razorice.

Crystalline Swords:

April Fool's is long gone blizzard, time to get serious, when do we get rid of this?

[Kraeth]

Quite a few buffs for Frost this build. Surprised to see a FF buff. Glacial Advance to compete with BoS, I presume. Obliteration is still complete rubbish. Well, it's the first number pass.

Thanks for everyone who participated in spamming the alpha feedback with 2h-garbage! Now we see the results.

[Halliax]

Quite a few buffs for Frost this build. Surprised to see a FF buff. Glacial Advance to compete with BoS, I presume. Obliteration is still complete rubbish. Well, it's the first number pass.

Thanks for everyone who participated in spamming the alpha feedback with 2h-garbage! Now we see the results.

But number wise, GA was better than BoS, already, as Frost Strike hit harder per runic power than BoS...I think we can wait for a BoS Buff, or we will not using it until we get GCD caped..

[Icedcoffeee]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, but why do people keep comparing FS to BoS as one-to-one dps comparisons? The whole point of BoS is that you are doing that damage while also using Rune attacks. Obviously resource management will be a factor, but I suspect any BoS build will stack all the resource regen talents.

Side note, Frost Scythe is getting toned down a bit, and Obliterate/HB is getting tuned up, suggesting they are aware of the potential Frost Scythe has. Hopefully the new secondary scaling will take care of the rest.

[Lex Icon]

i hope glacial advance will be good it looks really cool.. though since i mostly pvp i suspect obliteration will be the goto talent for me.

as for BoS i think it will mostly be worth it in PvE. seems like you can keep if up for quite some time if played correctly.

[nathrizarri]

I would like to see us doing some shadowfrost damage with abilities. With the artifact weapons and lore it is better for us to go bit darker in terms of fantasy.

[friedmudkipz]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, but why do people keep comparing FS to BoS as one-to-one dps comparisons? The whole point of BoS is that you are doing that damage while also using Rune attacks. Obviously resource management will be a factor, but I suspect any BoS build will stack all the resource regen talents.

Without ring, what does it matter that you can stack BoS and rune abilities? Unless you're hemorrhaging resources due to being GCD capped, you're just losing potential damage every time you spend RP through a BoS tick rather than an FS.

[Baddok21]

Without ring, what does it matter that you can stack BoS and rune abilities? Unless you're hemorrhaging resources due to being GCD capped, you're just losing potential damage every time you spend RP through a BoS tick rather than an FS.

to be fair single target burst or Burst phases in general have always been prevalent in raiding. The ring in WoD has simply forced a Scenario where every fight is a burst fight.

in WoD "burst is not everything, Its the only thing"

I expect without the ring we go back to actually having 3-4 burst fights a Tier not 11-13 forced burst fights

[Troejg]

I am really looking forward to playing frost in legion, i think breath of sindragosa is such a cool spell, but it feels a bit punishing to use, since you miss out on

Icy talons (30% attack speed) and Ice cap (reduced cd on pillar of frost) - I really hope breath ticks can count in those 2 talents.

Regarding artifact traits, i really hate we have so many defensive traits.
Frozen Core (Chains of Ice when hitting PoF)
Frozen Skin (10% armor)
Ice in your Veins (Deathstrike heals for 300% more when IBF)
Mirror Ball (AMS removes debuffs)

4 defensive traits?? the other class i have been considering to main is survival and then only have 2.
how about replacing 1 or 2 with a new one that increase runic power cap so you can pool more for burst or breath, or just a trait that increases runic power regeneration.

Sindragosa's fury is also really boring, how about adding a secondary effect like increasing your runic power regeneration for 15 seconds, or increasing attack speed or freezing the enemies to the core making them take increased frost damage?

Other than that i am really looking forward to play frost

[Hellborne87]

I dislike BoS currently and dread that it made it to Legion. Especially as Frost. Hope the spell is garbage so that I don't need to be bothered with it.