Bernie Supporters.... Trump or Hillary

[Felya]

There's really no reason to vote anymore. You're either voting in someone who keeps secrets and lies all the time or someone who acts like he came from the Youtube comment section. Either way you're not doing this country a favor by voting for either of them. If people thought Obama was bad they're going to wish for Obama to come back for another 4 years when one of these morons become president. Obama right now is looking like the Bill Clinton of this generation. Everyone is going to be saying how they wish Obama was president again.

Jesus Christ we are truly screwed.

Then use your vote to actually vote against the establishment, by not thinking the only option is Trump or Hillary. I bet Trump supporters will actually align far closer with Garry Johnson's policy, than Trump's... So, vote for Johnson... Bernie supporters and probebly a large portion of Hillary supporters, will most likely be aligned closer to Jill Stein's policy... So, vote Jill Stein...

Not voting is the laxative for our political shit storm...

[McFuu]

Just wanted to quote and say thanks for making this point. They do in fact agree on some major issues, issues the establishment cronies never talk about because they want the status quo preserved.

I agree.
Sanders and Trump were never that far apart. They just carried their campaigns differently to this point.

Although some of the things they agree on turn me away from both. I get the distinct feeling they would dismantle trade agreements. Recent loses of the carrier plant being a big talking point, making it more expensive to import than produce in America over night might take products out of our market place. It's not as if over night carrier would just reopen it's plant.

Best bet would be add incentives to op in America, and then gradually remove reasons to import. Trump is a little closer on this idea, reducing corporate tax, but it's also a huge reduction he has proposed, I don't know how much that would take out the tax base.

[breadisfunny]

I never said to vote for Hilary either.

vote for lolth.

[Pangean]

Yet another nonsense poll cooked up by the media elite, changing the numbers around based on how they feel about Trump vs Hillary.

That's nothing but a load of bullshit. I'm sure a lot of money went towards making it.

It's just yet another example of the media and political elite being totally out of touch with the voters.

Well it's a good thing you provided lots of evidence of how it is wrong. Otherwise people might think it was a meaningless rant.

[Daerio]

Well it's a good thing you provided lots of evidence of how it is wrong. Otherwise people might think it was a meaningless rant.

Although we remain convinced that Hillary Clinton is very vulnerable and would probably lose to most other Republicans, Donald Trump's historic unpopularity with wide swaths of the electorate - women, millennials, independents and Latinos - make him the initial November underdog.

As a result, we are shifting 13 ratings on our Electoral Vote scorecard, almost all of them favoring Democrats.Our assessments are based on publicly available polling, data on demographic change and private discussions with a large number of pollsters in both parties.

No evidence was provided, none can be refuted.

It's like the shit cycle meme. From one pollster to another. They just fucking talk to each other and decide how everyone's going to vote. Lulzy.

It reminds me of this yahoo garbage I just watched:

https://www.yahoo.com/katiecouric/wi...150804077.html

"Nobody predicted Trump to be the nominee. Not a single pundit or senator... yada yada..."

"I know Hillary's going to rally those voters, because I watched her do it in New York!"

That's the echo chamber you're listening to, not people who are voting. The same echo chamber that anointed Clinton president before the primaries began.

[Felya]

That's not really true. Trump has divisive rhetoric, and certainly his stance on immigration is completely opposite of Sanders' position on that topic, but they also agree on some major topics.

This isn't true according to their listed policy. I'll show you...

Specifically, they agree about trade agreements harming American workers

Trump's policy doesn't actually target trade agreements, outside rhetoric. His actual policy would make it easier for corporations to deal with China:

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positio...a-trade-reform

Strengthen our negotiating position by lowering our corporate tax rate to keep American companies and jobs here at home, attacking our debt and deficit so China cannot use financial blackmail against us, and bolstering the U.S. military presence in the East and South China Seas to discourage Chinese adventurism.

Lowering taxes on corporations and giving China exactly what they asked for:

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2...nt_8481111.htm

And increasing military...

they agree on closing ridiculous tax loopholes like carried interest

Also, not true. Trump does not plan to close loopholes, but make taxes on corporations so low, that the loopholes are made "redundant":

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/tax-reform

Reducing or eliminating corporate loopholes that cater to special interests, as well as deductions made unnecessary or redundant by the new lower tax rate on corporations and business income. We will also phase in a reasonable cap on the deductibility of business interest expenses.

they agree on getting special interest money out of politics

Also not true. Trump is the special interest that has been funneling money into politics. Trump's only justification I being a candidate is his money being used to run for president. His win would mean special interest shouldn't bother paying lobbying, but should just run for president. His site lists absolutely nothing about special interest in government... Most likely because that's him...

they agree on the nomination process of their respective parties being 'rigged'

This is preying on people's misunderstanding of what the parties are. They are rigged, that's the point of having a party you belong to. They state the party policy. They state who will run for their party. They funnel money to their candidates. But, the most glaring issue... It's so rigged against Trump, that he won the nomination...

and they agree that the American military shouldn't be the world's police force.

Also not true. As you can see above, he plans to expand US military in China to protect American corporate interest in China. His YouTube page contains a video of him saying "bomb the shit out of them and give their oil to Exxon". Bernie does not support nuke expension to every country that wants them. Trump expands some areas of US military in other countries, while supporting the cause of our military expansion, by supporting nukes all over the world.

Trump's rhetoric will turn away most Sanders' supporters, but there will be a few who will look past it to see the positions that Trump and Sanders agree on.

It's the other way around. If you look at their policy, they are complete antithesis of each other. There is no way that someone supporting actual policy of Bernie, would find anything in common with Trump's listed policy. The only thing that makes them similar is blind adherents to rhetoric...

[Pangean]

No evidence was provided, none can be refuted.

It's like the shit cycle meme. From one pollster to another. They just fucking talk to each other and decide how everyone's going to vote. Lulzy.

It reminds me of this yahoo garbage I just watched:

https://www.yahoo.com/katiecouric/wi...150804077.html

"Nobody predicted Trump to be the nominee. Not a single pundit or senator... yada yada..."

"I know Hillary's going to rally those voters, because I watched her do it in New York!"

That's the echo chamber you're listening to, not people who are voting. The same echo chamber that anointed Clinton president before the primaries began.

I do love what you decided not to quote (in bold).

"As a result, we are shifting 13 ratings on our Electoral Vote scorecard, almost all of them favoring Democrats. Our assessments are based on publicly available polling, data on demographic change and private discussions with a large number of pollsters in both parties. Much could change, but undecided voters begin more hostile to Trump than Clinton."

And what can you refute? The current polls and demographic changes. They list state by state what they believe is the likely current direction of the state. Produce current polls that show that to be wrong. I understand you are disturbed that somehow, someone has produced a document showing the troubles Trump has but to say you can't refute if indeed wrong is simply laziness on your part.

[Felya]

Yet another nonsense poll cooked up by the media elite, changing the numbers around based on how they feel about Trump vs Hillary.

That's nothing but a load of bullshit. I'm sure a lot of money went towards making it.

It's just yet another example of the media and political elite being totally out of touch with the voters.

Yes, the media and political elite are out of touch with the voters, because according to you, they misrepresent a reality show celebrity, who has been funneling money to government for decades. If anything, Trump's popularity should tell you that people want the media and political elites in government, as long as he calls them losers while running.

[Daerio]

Yes, the media and political elite are out of touch with the voters, because according to you, they misrepresent a reality show celebrity, who has been funneling money to government for decades. If anything, Trump's popularity should tell you that people want the media and political elites in government, as long as he calls them losers while running.

They mis-represent reality regularly, which is the problem. They're attempting to invent the polls instead of taking the polls.

I'm looking outside at the rain. You're pointing at the sun on your TV.

[Pony Soldier]

Then use your vote to actually vote against the establishment, by not thinking the only option is Trump or Hillary. I bet Trump supporters will actually align far closer with Garry Johnson's policy, than Trump's... So, vote for Johnson... Bernie supporters and probebly a large portion of Hillary supporters, will most likely be aligned closer to Jill Stein's policy... So, vote Jill Stein...

Not voting is the laxative for our political shit storm...

Yeah but see what's the point? It's obvious it's going to come down to these two shitheads so what is my one vote towards either of those other two people (which I have never heard of) going to matter if it's obvious that they're not going to become president? It's like fighting a house fire with a cup of water. Just like with Bernie Sanders, I was going to actually for the first time go out and get registered to vote for him but what was my one vote going to do seeing how he got blown out of the water by Hillary? It would've been a waste. For the first time I was actually interested in a politician but of course he loses because he's not corrupt enough, not enough banks are supporting him.

That's why I don't bother with voting because most of the time it's a waste of time and energy because it all comes down to who has the most money and who is the better lier? Pick your poison.

[Felya]

Electing Trump this year would send both parties back to the drawing board, and maybe get some real candidates next season.

This makes no sense... Trump winning makes him the blue print to winning elections. Bush ended his presidency on an economic collapse. Other than blaming Obama, how did that change republican policy? By creating the tea party, that's even worse than Bush? If Trumo wins, it means wealth is enouph justification to be an American president. As in, oligarchy... As in, Paris Hilton 2020... Make America hot again...

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They mis-represent reality regularly, which is the problem. They're attempting to invent the polls instead of taking the polls.

According to Trump, who threatened to sue Ted Cruz for showing a video of Trump lying? The same Trump who suggested changing liable laws to protect his lies from journalists?

I'm looking outside at the rain. You're pointing at the sun on your TV.

That's not rain... The guy in the apartment above you is pissing out his window... Stick your hand out and smell it... Once you get more substance than just looking, you'll realize it's piss...

[Daerio]

This makes no sense... Trump winning makes him the blue print to winning elections. Bush ended his presidency on an economic collapse. Other than blaming Obama, how did that change republican policy? By creating the tea party, that's even worse than Bush? If Trumo wins, it means wealth is enouph justification to be an American president. As in, oligarchy... As in, Paris Hilton 2020... Make America hot again...

It already means wealth is enough justification to be president, just look at Clinton. The difference is, everyone in the world can see that Trump and Sanders weren't hand-picked by the elite this cycle - they both DO represent actual change, whereas none of the other candidates EVER have.

Comparing this to previous elections - talking about Bush, Obama - is meaningless. People voted for Obama because they wanted change, but he never delivered. They don't want 16 years of his do-nothingness to be carried out by Clinton. Even the people voting for her are somehow hoping she'll do "something" for them, if only stave off the crazy Republicans.

We'll see what happens. In the meantime, pollsters absolutely don't know shit, and they do not speak for the voting public they're attempting to represent. See reality for proof.

[-aiko-]

I don't plan on voting (yeah yeah I'm horrible etc) but if I had to pick I'd pick Trump. Pretty much only because I think his tax and healthcare plans make sense. I'm also not a Bernie supporter, though, so I don't know if I'm supposed to vote

[Felya]

Yeah but see what's the point? It's obvious it's going to come down to these two shitheads so what is my one vote towards either of those other two people (which I have never heard of) going to matter if it's obvious that they're not going to become president? It's like fighting a house fire with a cup of water. Just like with Bernie Sanders, I was going to actually for the first time go out and get registered to vote for him but what was my one vote going to do seeing how he got blown out of the water by Hillary? It would've been a waste. For the first time I was actually interested in a politician but of course he loses because he's not corrupt enough, not enough banks are supporting him.

Point? How about voting for someone who actually represents you. How about not bowing to the establishment, by letting them do what ever they want. If every person who feels as you do, voted for third party, there would be no 2 party system. Your one vote has far greater representation if you vote 3rd party. On top of that, if said party received just 5% of popular vote, they get federal funding in next election.

That's why I don't bother with voting because most of the time it's a waste of time and energy because it all comes down to who has the most money and who is the better lier? Pick your poison.

That's only showing how lazy you are and how ingrained the idea of two party system is with you. The above reply means the very establishment you are against, has you behave exactly as they want. Vote for us or nothing at all... Just respond with, 'yes, master', as you sit on your couch scratching your balls instead of voting...

[Daerio]

That's only showing how lazy you are and how ingrained the idea of two party system is with you. The above reply means the very establishment you are against, has you behave exactly as they want. Vote for us or nothing at all... Just respond with, 'yes, master', as you sit on your couch scratching your balls instead of voting...

You're voting for Hillary and talking about how to fight the establishment?

Amusing.

[Seefer]

I'd still vote for Bernie on the "other" option.

[Deleted]

That's only showing how lazy you are and how ingrained the idea of two party system is with you. The above reply means the very establishment you are against, has you behave exactly as they want. Vote for us or nothing at all... Just respond with, 'yes, master', as you sit on your couch scratching your balls instead of voting...

Have you even wondered where this social stigma comes from? that not voting means you're horrible or lazy? because as i see it you voting for someone who you do NOT support means saying "yes, master" to the establishment. Voting by its very nature is a choice and not voting is an option, if there is no candidate that represents your values and interests but you still go to vote then YOU are the pawn of the establishment, because they scared you with the boogieman.

Also regarding your earlier post, maybe an explosion is what the people need, that's what saved the frog.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I am also not American but ur wrong.

Hillary is establishment, therefore if u vote Hillary she will keep the status quo. nothing will change. The 1% will be protected.

Trump is the most non-establishment candidate across both parties. He wants to reform everything. So if u want change then vote Trump.

Bernie supporters like Bernie cos he also wants to change everything... just like Trump.

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Exactly.

Its amazin g how many idiots there are who think Bernie is close to Hillary... thats just not true at all. Bernie is closer to Trump by far.

About the only thing Trump has claimed he's wanted to change about establishment economics is to force businesses to bring jobs back from China and stop using illegal labor. Both of which Trump himself does, but that's another story. Those two things are not actually wtihin Trump's power to do. The rest is vague vacuous nonsense that people think are profound statements. Bernie has a pretty thorough plan laid out, but he lost popularity because he actually decided to explain how he's going to do things, where Trump just says "WE'RE GONNA WIN AND WE'RE GONNA CHANGE THINGS, MURICA!"

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I don't plan on voting (yeah yeah I'm horrible etc) but if I had to pick I'd pick Trump. Pretty much only because I think his tax and healthcare plans make sense. I'm also not a Bernie supporter, though, so I don't know if I'm supposed to vote

He wants to dramatically reduce taxes (and thus revenue from taxes) while having a lot of programs he wants to implement that will cost a lot of money.

I'm not really certain how reducing revenue and increasing spending "makes sense". But then again deficit spending was the policy of Reagan and Bush.

[Felya]

It already means wealth is enough justification to be president, just look at Clinton. The difference is, everyone in the world can see that Trump and Sanders weren't hand-picked by the elite this cycle - they both DO represent actual change, whereas none of the other candidates EVER have.

Clintons depend on donations, just like all politicians, excluding Perrot and Trump. Clinton's status in politics is due to their work in politics. Trump's status in politics is nothing, but wealth. Fact is, he values his name alone at 20 times the worth of Clinton's total wealth. Trump's only change is his style of rhetoric and incongruent policy. His healthcare plan, is pretty much every republicans plan from Harritage. His tax code is pretty much the same as establishment GOP.

Comparing this to previous elections - talking about Bush, Obama - is meaningless. People voted for Obama because they wanted change, but he never delivered. They don't want 16 years of his do-nothingness to be carried out by Clinton. Even the people voting for her are somehow hoping she'll do "something" for them, if only stave off the crazy Republicans.

This is only true if you ignore what happened after Bush. Obama beat Hillary, at a time when the economy was collapsing, while GOP convention didn't even mention Wall Street. You know what else happened during the month of GOP convention? Three banks failed...

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=78545

Obama cut TARP in half, reinstated Glass-Steagal, be it with 1% allowance and has presided over nearly tripling the Dow from it's collapse.

We'll see what happens. In the meantime, pollsters absolutely don't know shit, and they do not speak for the voting public they're attempting to represent. See reality for proof.

The only reality I see proving, is Trump supporters are voting for celebrity, not policy...

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You're voting for Hillary and talking about how to fight the establishment?

Amusing.

Quote me ever saying anyone should vote for Hillary. Just once in my 20000+ posts, find one time I said anyone should vote for Hillary. In this thread alone, I have repeatedly told Hillary supporters to vote Jill Stein. The only person I have endorsed by saying I will vote for them, is Spider Jerousalem... Just like what you support in Trump, your idea that I am voting for Hillary is contrary to reality...

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Have you even wondered where this social stigma comes from? that not voting means you're horrible or lazy? because as i see it you voting for someone who you do NOT support means saying "yes, master" to the establishment. Voting by its very nature is a choice and not voting is an option, if there is no candidate that represents your values and interests but you still go to vote then YOU are the pawn of the establishment, because they scared you with the boogieman.

You are not helping the idea that there are only 2 choices. As I have said numerous times, Bernie supporters will find more in common in Jill Stein, than Hillary. Conservative voters will find more in common with Garry Johnson, than Trump. You can even write in your choice if not available. That's actually doing something... Not doing nothing in protest... Look at me, I am protesting the establishment while playing WoW instead of voting... That will show them...

Also regarding your earlier post, maybe an explosion is what the people need, that's what saved the frog.

An explosion saves the frog, only if you believe in frog Jesus.

[Linri]

I vote for President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho

A porn star and five-time ultimate smackdown wrestling champion!!!! A great man, a great american. He will serve up a can of whoop ass if you cross him. He will stomp your ass if you don't!