1. #1901
    Quote Originally Posted by Fearsom1992 View Post
    Afflcition does not lack aoe its actually top dps on scorpion guy right now in the nighthold the problem is ( i know its beta numbers lol) that you have to notice adds before the rest of your raid n cast a seed (because seed has a donation time of 150,000 and it is a 2sec cast) by the time they realize the adds are up so u can trigger seeds x4 or x8... now soulflame wasn't working then so affi aoe is pretty crazy and so is demo.. all 3 specs are 100% viable
    I keep hearing affliction doomsaying. That isnt versatile enough.

    Hence why I'm czeching out Destro here

  2. #1902
    idc either way i like them both equal in raid testing :]

  3. #1903
    Quote Originally Posted by Fearsom1992 View Post
    idc either way i like them both equal in raid testing :]
    If Affliction is bad then hopefully Blizzard will look at some of its frankly dated mechanics. And with pvp talents the fears of making it op in pvp are lessened

  4. #1904
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    That's still a LOT less guaranteed burst than we currently have access to. We can currently store 4 Chaos Bolts of resources, plus use conflag to get them out faster. Now, we can store at most 2, with one charge of Conflag reserved to letting us cast 3.

    We probably can't really save that many charges of Rifts since Incinerate recharges a whole charge and we only have 3, meaning we can safely save only 1 charge on-demand without risking a missed reset.

    On top of that, Backdraft isn't baseline, meaning we can't reliably reduce the cast time of Chaos Bolt unless we take backdraft over Roaring Blaze/Shadowburn.

    We can potentially RNG our way to more burst with Soul Conduit, but that is not reliable.

    Also, we no longer have a CD that increases our direct damage potential (only doomguard) so we have to pray that doomguard can hit that target. Also, Doomguard costs a soul shard so that's effectively one less Chaos Bolt we can cast.
    i trust your opinion when it comes to destro as you've earned that, but with soul harvest, we can fire off 6 CBs. 6 CBs(with 2 conflag) is better than 4 with 30% increased damage in terms of raw damage. then a possible 2 rifts, a serviced pet (100% increased damage), mana tap (as horrible as it is) and channel doomfire or a possible extra CB with soul conduit (12 shards with a 20% chance each). if we set up for burst we can achieve some good burst still from whats presented. ofcourse it remains to be seen with tuning but i do think you've underestimated the overall burst. unless im missing something? (apart from the one shard cost of serviced pet)

  5. #1905
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    20,786
    • Artifact Traits have been rearranged a bit
    • Dimensional Rift Chaos Bolt now always crits and for a good amount
    • Dimensional Rift can no longer be cast on the move
    • Impish Incineration now also affects Doomguard by same amount and if you use GoSac - then all your damage is increased by 3% instead.


    Other than that did not see any changes.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2016-05-06 at 04:28 AM.

  6. #1906
    I wonder what this http://beta.wowdb.com/spells/187394-...ge#21570-21655 is supposed to be? By the rng gods! Don't let it be just a rename of channel demonfire!

  7. #1907
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    • Dimensional Rift can no longer be cast on the move
    Are you fucking kidding me ..
    made by Shyama

  8. #1908
    Quote Originally Posted by gruxxar View Post
    Are you fucking kidding me ..
    We all knew that was just a bug doomed to be fixed. Sure it would have been nice to have some sort of mobility, but I'm intrigued what Chaos Barrage is. I expect it to be nothing unfortunately.

  9. #1909
    Quote Originally Posted by Dastey View Post
    We all knew that was just a bug doomed to be fixed. Sure it would have been nice to have some sort of mobility, but I'm intrigued what Chaos Barrage is. I expect it to be nothing unfortunately.
    I thought it was just the name of one of the effects the Dimensional Rift can put out? Could be wrong.

  10. #1910
    Out artifact path just got a lot worse. Before we had a pretty clear path in terms of damage, as we could get it all (except aoe and conflag talent) in the first couple of points, now however we are forced to take a lot of utility talents in order to get to damage

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Retheran View Post
    I thought it was just the name of one of the effects the Dimensional Rift can put out? Could be wrong.
    You are probably right on this one

  11. #1911
    frostelion`s detailed review of destruction

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WDeCYMWghA

  12. #1912
    I'm gonna miss shadowburn execute so hard same goes for instant RoF

  13. #1913
    Quote Originally Posted by Dastey View Post
    Out artifact path just got a lot worse. Before we had a pretty clear path in terms of damage, as we could get it all (except aoe and conflag talent) in the first couple of points, now however we are forced to take a lot of utility talents in order to get to damage
    Indeed, now it's pretty bad with talents just messed up.
    I'd like a Straight Utility line an AOE Line and a ST dps line, would make decisions just more plain simple.

    I'm really uncomfortable at thinking about which "first major trait path" will be better, I don't want to think about micro-management my weapon for a couple days. And i'm not being sarcastic.


    Also, Dimensional Rift not being cast while moving really makes me sad..really sad. I slept this morning with grieve on my heart.

  14. #1914
    Pandaren Monk Tabrotar's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Where my books are
    Posts
    1,963
    Why are we even surprised here? It´s Blizzard all the good things which seems great for warlocks will get changed into something absolutly stupid just look at the rift changes. And still no bluepost about the changes for chaosbolt when they havend changed it for DHs. And i´m shure that won´t be the end of the road with the fucked up changes they will introduce until the pre-patch.

  15. #1915
    Quote Originally Posted by garonne View Post
    i trust your opinion when it comes to destro as you've earned that, but with soul harvest, we can fire off 6 CBs. 6 CBs(with 2 conflag) is better than 4 with 30% increased damage in terms of raw damage. then a possible 2 rifts, a serviced pet (100% increased damage), mana tap (as horrible as it is) and channel doomfire or a possible extra CB with soul conduit (12 shards with a 20% chance each). if we set up for burst we can achieve some good burst still from whats presented. ofcourse it remains to be seen with tuning but i do think you've underestimated the overall burst. unless im missing something? (apart from the one shard cost of serviced pet)
    I guess we should each clarify exactly what we mean by burst. My idea of burst potential is a semi-frequent fight mechanic like Doomfire on Archi or anomalies on Imperator, where the target needs to die ASAP and you need consistent guaranteed damage potential. (during progression like 10-20 seconds)

    Soul Harvest is a 2 second cast of doing nothing but generating 5 shards and is a 2 minute cooldown. Same with a serviced pet (that costs a shard iirc). Doomfire requires an Immolate cast. Doomguard/Infernal require a Soul Shard.

    If we set up for good burst, we can still have decent burst (with the caveat that it is somewhat predicated on good RNG. At the same time though, compared to before where this guaranteed burst came from intrinsically being Destruction _regardless_ of talent choice and without reliance of CDs, we're now in a state where we have to specifically talent for that particular situation, at the expense of our potential elsewhere.

    I don't necessarily want to make a value judgement on whether this is a good direction for specs to go as a whole (specialization by talent selection), but it is still less baseline potential.

  16. #1916
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    20,786
    OK so I tried this legendary that gives your fire spells 25% chance to generate shard... I must say, they may as well remove Incinerate, because you literally swim in shards so much that you are almost spamming Chaos Bolt...

    Like here, Helya just now:

    24 Chaos Bolt hits, 14 Shadowburn hits, 4 Incinerate hits.



    That's with Soul Conduit and 15% shard refund on CB from artifact.

    So yeah, don't worry about not having shards, that's not an option
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2016-05-06 at 07:12 PM.

  17. #1917
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    I don't necessarily want to make a value judgement on whether this is a good direction for specs to go as a whole (specialization by talent selection), but it is still less baseline potential.
    I do. I'd rather not have an aoe spec, a ST spec, and a burst spec. What I would like is for the options to enhance each aspect be horizontal tradeoffs on the talent tree vs vertical ones. I'm not at all thrilled with having to decide pre-fight what I want to be good at so that I can be crappy at everything else.

  18. #1918
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    snip
    Depends on a bunch of things, and how much we're clinging to "baseline".

    For instance a really obvious baseline is that currently a CB on live is 227%(?) spellpower, where on alpha its 360% iirc (before the 15% extra crit from the artifact trait). 3 CB's on alpha is worth more than 4 CB's on live. We also have eradication, which means if we cast 3 CB's in a row the subsequent 2 would be buffed by currently 12%. You also have channel demonfire which is another 750% spelldmg. Shadowburn no longer has the 20% requirement either so you could now potentially just spam 5 shadowburns into the target likely faster than it'd take 2 cb's to hit the target. We have a double dip of the current 4p mechanic where our artifact has a 15% chance to restore a shard and we could potentially take soul conduit instead of demonfire which could mean any potential shenanigans number of CB's or SB's in a row as a baseline thing. Backdraft is no longer limited to a single CB per conflag, and we also have conflag of chaos having that RNG chance to potentially have it be its own mini nuke.

    I think its really difficult to argue what your arguing at the moment from a mechanics or tuning standpoint. Destro's kit is looking plenty strong for both immediate and sustained burst. I also think that focusing on the baseline vs talent choices is fairly moot. You talent / spec for what the fight needs no different than today. On a fight like archie for instance, you focus your entire build around killing doomfires and infernals. Other things don't matter for us because those were our priorities, where other people focused their priorities on other parts of the fight. Not having things baseline just means classes are more specialized and focused.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    So yeah, don't worry about not having shards, that's not an option
    God I hope that thing ends up being nerfed to shit or removed.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  19. #1919
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    Depends on a bunch of things, and how much we're clinging to "baseline".

    For instance a really obvious baseline is that currently a CB on live is 227%(?) spellpower, where on alpha its 360% iirc (before the 15% extra crit from the artifact trait). 3 CB's on alpha is worth more than 4 CB's on live. We also have eradication, which means if we cast 3 CB's in a row the subsequent 2 would be buffed by currently 12%. You also have channel demonfire which is another 750% spelldmg. Shadowburn no longer has the 20% requirement either so you could now potentially just spam 5 shadowburns into the target likely faster than it'd take 2 cb's to hit the target. We have a double dip of the current 4p mechanic where our artifact has a 15% chance to restore a shard and we could potentially take soul conduit instead of demonfire which could mean any potential shenanigans number of CB's or SB's in a row as a baseline thing. Backdraft is no longer limited to a single CB per conflag, and we also have conflag of chaos having that RNG chance to potentially have it be its own mini nuke.

    I think its really difficult to argue what your arguing at the moment from a mechanics or tuning standpoint. Destro's kit is looking plenty strong for both immediate and sustained burst. I also think that focusing on the baseline vs talent choices is fairly moot. You talent / spec for what the fight needs no different than today. On a fight like archie for instance, you focus your entire build around killing doomfires and infernals. Other things don't matter for us because those were our priorities, where other people focused their priorities on other parts of the fight. Not having things baseline just means classes are more specialized and focused.
    Well not entirely, as you also need to consider that there's going to be different breakdowns of secondary stats compared to primary stats on gear, which directly impacts how much benefit each ability has from spellpower. If we have a ton more secondaries and less Int, that's less spellpower for Chaos Bolt to be buffed by directly. (All I really mean here is that spell % coeff isn't necessarily a direct comparison either.)

    My point is largely that I'm concerned about our baseline performance at such things, and not really about how much we can tune ourselves to be better at those things. There's going to be a fight where we will have to make a choice about what talents to take, and with our baseline being much worse at everything (since we're probably tuned around talent choice), those choices will be significantly tougher. Talent choices for Destruction on live right now basically just come down to "Cata or CR". We basically always take GoSac, AD, etc. (And even then, with very rare exception it's best to just take CR too.)

    On top of that, if Destruction's ability to provide on-demand burst on specific targets is tied heavily to "oh I got a shard back, now I can cast another 1000% spell power at the target to kill it", there will be an attempt where that add didn't die because the Destro lock(s) all didn't get their refund. Being able to reliably say, "yeah, I can solo this engineer on Garrosh every time, np" is a valuable commodity in a raiding situation.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    God I hope that thing ends up being nerfed to shit or removed.
    Amen. It will only inevitably cause the same tuning nightmares that CR has crushed Destro with this expac.

  20. #1920
    Aside from the part where the revised talent system is supposed to be somewhat situationally driven, is it really surprising that they're toning down Destruction's ability to be all things at all times?

    I mean, if your concern is "Destruction with no talents selected is mediocre (but actually taking talents can make it powerful)" I'm pretty sure that Blizzard's reply will be "working as intended".

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •