Casualization is the biggest problem wow: True or false

[Deleted]

I think the biggest reason people leave the game is: not enough content.
About 10 years ago we had less content than now, but in those days it was different for several reasons:
- the whole MMO genre was relatively new, not so much alternatives
- about all the players were begginers, so less contet was enough to keep them occupied
- because some of the old mechanics (and because all the new players) progression was way slower, noone would rush through leveling, questing and dungeon gearing in a week
- there was less info about everything on youtube, forums and wow sites (mmo, wowhead, thottbot << one of the oldest)

Sum:
We have more contet, more laternatives, better graphics, but this is not enough.
WoW needs a much more or faster content or a new alternative deep endgame. Something that would be on pair with raiding and battlegrounds, and would be interesting for a wide audience. Garrisons are not in pair with raiding, nor pet battles. These are just small features and wont keep millions of players in front of WoW.

Esay fix. Make wow challengin again. Ban dataming and PTR for public. Restric game from addons. Why you think so many players now went to private servers with vannila. I raided high end raiding until end of MoP and we cleared everything then i join vannila and i got killed by boars in Durotar becouse i pulled to many of them. No it isnt justt about players are more experience. Vannila was simply harder in every way.

[Omega10]

Elite players that are rude and unfriendly is why high end WOW fell out of favor. The elite players did such a good job of pushing others away from it that Blizzard has to either casualize or die.

[Drefan]

Elite players that are rude and unfriendly is why high end WOW fell out of favor. The elite players did such a good job of pushing others away from it that Blizzard has to either casualize or die.

Or is this your own opinion? I'm sure it is.

[cwowtbang]

Ban dataming and PTR for public.

I agree with this, as much as I love wowhead and mmochamp, the datamining have taken away the discovery/surprise factor of the game. PTR testing in raids I think needs to be reined in. While I appreciate testers' hard work they are essentially working without pay from Blizz and I think that knowing how to clear a raid before its even released is a detriment to the game as a whole. Blizz either needs to hire these folks that do the testing or step the game up on the internal test team. They have the money, no excuses.

[Drefan]

I agree with this, as much as I love wowhead and mmochamp, the datamining have taken away the discovery/surprise factor of the game. PTR testing in raids I think needs to be reined in. While I appreciate testers' hard work they are essentially working without pay from Blizz and I think that knowing how to clear a raid before its even released is a detriment to the game as a whole. Blizz either needs to hire these folks that do the testing or step the game up on the internal test team. They have the money, no excuses.

Yeah, It's so easy to figure out boss fights these days.
You've all the data you need and you've a very good idea how to work around every boss ability. And this is before you even step in to the raid.

[TCGamer]

Esay fix. Make wow challengin again. Ban dataming and PTR for public. Restric game from addons. Why you think so many players now went to private servers with vannila. I raided high end raiding until end of MoP and we cleared everything then i join vannila and i got killed by boars in Durotar becouse i pulled to many of them. No it isnt justt about players are more experience. Vannila was simply harder in every way.

There is challenging content it WoW. There is easy content in WoW.

Win/win.

However, I do agree with no PTR & no data mining. That's another reason why things are completed so quickly. Many guilds have the bosses beaten on the PTR before they even come to live, and they blow through them all on live after beating their heads against it on the PTR.

[Kithelle]

Is casualization single handedly the biggest reason for people leaving world of warcraft in unprecedented numbers?

True or false.

False...definitely

Simply put...the biggest reasons for people leaving is that WoD was a very lazy and poorly developed expansion.

[cwowtbang]

Yeah, It's so easy to figure out boss fights these days.
You've all the data you need and you've a very good idea how to work around every boss ability. And this is before you even step in to the raid.

They put all the work into the dungeon journal but nobody bothers to actually go through it, I am guilty of this too.

[Deleted]

There is challenging content it WoW. There is easy content in WoW.

Win/win.

However, I do agree with no PTR & no data mining. That's another reason why things are completed so quickly. Many guilds have the bosses beaten on the PTR before they even come to live, and they blow through them all on live after beating their heads against it on the PTR.

Only thing what is challening is mythic raiding. Rest even heroic hfc is pugable and rest of the raids are absolote anyway. This is huge problem of wow. Vannila hit sweat spot when comes to difficulty and it draw in lot of players. Current game targets lowest 5% and top 5% of playerbase while rest 90% of players are out of content. Ÿes it is craty but back in vannila even casuals enyojed hard game and challenge. Where is this type of content? Gone. Everyting is super easy or super hard there is no middle ground anymore.

[Stormspark]

No. The main issue is lack of content. Blizzard delivered only 1 small content update for WOD. Less than half of what Cataclysm had. Less than 1/4 of what WOTLK had.

[Deleted]

No. The main issue is lack of content. Blizzard delivered only 1 small content update for WOD. Less than half of what Cataclysm had. Less than 1/4 of what WOTLK had.

This is probably a lie. for 12 months after ICC fired we had only ICC to do and later on we got 1 boss Raid in form of Hallion. Nah Wotlk didn't have much more content. Simply things like Naxx 25 were relevant up to ICC patch but in WoD the ilvl difference is so big that you move a patch and gear gets 50-80 more ilvl. So a patch in WoD invalidates all previous gear and any will to do older content.

[PenguinChan]

Casualization brought you Classic, TBC, WotLK, etc. Making things cater to more individuals does not mean it is terrible nor bad, it's the level or removal of depth that makes it bad. There is nothing wrong with trying to make your base game appealing and approachable for everyone, because that's how you get money for your business. But Blizzard went a step further and took out mechanics and other things that made it more complex, like their other games. This is when you take 'casualization' too far, when you start stripping out mechanics for the sake of the casual -- you're doing it wrong. The casual individuals will just go along with the extra mechanics and possibly not even excel at them, but the great players will who maybe are casual.

It's simplification for no obvious reason that is bad, not making a game casual on the front end.

[C J]

Personally I think they could add more casual content to the game, content being casual doesn't mean the game is any worse, it's just a matter of what the content itself is, if it's just dumbed down dungeons, quests, and raids, yes, it'll ruin the game.

But I think if they'd add more like "casual minigame" type content to the game, something that can have a small impact, yet, be entertaining and have replay-ability to it, while not needing long term investments, it could overall improve the game.

All just my opinion on it all :P

[Osmeric]

No. The main issue is lack of content. Blizzard delivered only 1 small content update for WOD. Less than half of what Cataclysm had. Less than 1/4 of what WOTLK had.

There were other issues.

Normal mode was tuned up from where Flex was in SoO, fumbling the ostensible "Friends and Family" target for that raid mode.

Heroic 5 mans were initially almost worthless. Rewards in world content were also poorly designed. Content with poor reward is nearly as bad as no content at all, so this amplified the perception that content was missing.

LFR's rewards were degraded to the point they were also pointless to run.

Ashran stomped all over other PvP venues as a gear source.

You can see many changes in Legion that are intended to avoid the incompetent reward design of WoD.

[Vineri]

Not really going to be an "acceptable" sample set, since the people who agree use these forums and will vote freely, while the people who moved on (because they hated casualisation!) -- will never see your poll, or get a chance to vote.

Biased results.

[Deleted]

There were other issues.

Normal mode was tuned up from where Flex was in SoO, fumbling the ostensible "Friends and Family" target for that raid mode.

Heroic 5 mans were initially almost worthless. Rewards in world content were also poorly designed. Content with poor reward is nearly as bad as no content at all, so this amplified the perception that content was missing.

LFR's rewards were degraded to the point they were also pointless to run.

Ashran stomped all over other PvP venues as a gear source.

You can see many changes in Legion that are intended to avoid the incompetent reward design of WoD.

LFR gear nerf was nod to community as they forced blizzard with constant whine about it to make a bad LFR gear.
Heroics 5 mans were a must at start of WoD to get gear for Highmaul so i wouldn't discount them...
Ashran was ok and still is ok, the only problem is balance, once one faction starts to steamroll other it is not changing for hours.

[Deleted]

No, it's a combination of reasons. This is one, but there's also the social aspect, the end goals being removed, little to no content over time and the non-raiders not getting content along the expansion.

Essentially the problem is:
-everything is quite easy to do and achieve (no, the majority of people won't give a shit about mythic raids, they'll raid LFR, maybe normal and they're done) SO
-people finish the content quite easy YET
-since there's no true majestic end goals like mythic raiders seeing more bosses (Sinestra style) or some super duper mount or something people kind of feel like they've finished the game AND
-since the social aspect of the game is mostly dead nowadays due to stuff like LFD, LFR, cross-server stuff but also due to people rushing leveling so people leveling barely ever meet anyone it means that people have nothing to do from the game and nobody to keep them playing. Essentially, in previous expansions, even when there was less content people would keep playing to have fun with friends. Now things bundled up, there's both little content and the social aspect has eroded.

[Gilgameshh]

Blizzard catered to this for 10 years:

"I don't have time to do this"
"I don't have time to do that"
"That's too much work"
"I want that too"

Which in return gave us WOD. An expansion with nothing to do.

I want to write a long, drawn out post about how "casualization" and entitlement have absolutely ruined the game for millions of people... but I'll just second what you said. Good enough.

[Osmeric]

Essentially the problem is:
-everything is quite easy to do and achieve (no, the majority of people won't give a shit about mythic raids, they'll raid LFR, maybe normal and they're done) SO

This objection is really stupid. "Everything is easy if we ignore all the parts that aren't." You are objecting not to the game being easy, but to it having any part that is easy.

[ShiyoKozuki]

No, it's a combination of reasons. This is one, but there's also the social aspect, the end goals being removed, little to no content over time and the non-raiders not getting content along the expansion.

Essentially the problem is:
-everything is quite easy to do and achieve (no, the majority of people won't give a shit about mythic raids, they'll raid LFR, maybe normal and they're done) SO
-people finish the content quite easy YET
-since there's no true majestic end goals like mythic raiders seeing more bosses (Sinestra style) or some super duper mount or something people kind of feel like they've finished the game AND
-since the social aspect of the game is mostly dead nowadays due to stuff like LFD, LFR, cross-server stuff but also due to people rushing leveling so people leveling barely ever meet anyone it means that people have nothing to do from the game and nobody to keep them playing. Essentially, in previous expansions, even when there was less content people would keep playing to have fun with friends. Now things bundled up, there's both little content and the social aspect has eroded.

Yep.
They stopped making a MMO and made a single player RPG where you beat it in a weekend then stop playing it.
How they thought this would be a smart decision for a monthly sub MMO, I have no clue.

Thankfully, Legion looks to be fixing all these problems(except the social one, we're forever fucked on that). The social one is probably the biggest one, as all my memories from WOW since vanilla beta have been with the people I was with, and not the actual content I was doing.

Maybe in 2 or 3 more expacs Blizzard will realize how important a MMO being a social experience is again. It only took them 3 to realize that catch up mechanics and making the game take less and less time to "beat" doesn't work in a MMO. Something I realized in WOTLK FFS.

- - - Updated - - -

No. The main issue is lack of content. Blizzard delivered only 1 small content update for WOD. Less than half of what Cataclysm had. Less than 1/4 of what WOTLK had.

Even if they added 3 more raid tiers, you'd only be doing the current raid tier right now anyways. You'd do catch up mechanics then have nothing to do but a single raid for ~6 months, and if you aren't a raider you'd have jack shit to do.

The problem isn't lack of content, it's catch up mechanics, making content besides the current irrelevant and making content last less than 10 hours.