Casualization is the biggest problem wow: True or false

[grexly75]

I can see this thread going places. I think QOL changes over time have made us lazy. Boy I remember being excited to even have basic riding (60%) and it took me forever to buy it and the mount. Good times.

Yeah I remember when it cost 600 gold to buy epic riding and back then with would take weeks if not months to save that much gold up..

[Gilgameshh]

Yep.
They stopped making a MMO and made a single player RPG where you beat it in a weekend then stop playing it.
How they thought this would be a smart decision for a monthly sub MMO, I have no clue.

Thankfully, Legion looks to be fixing all these problems(except the social one, we're forever fucked on that). The social one is probably the biggest one, as all my memories from WOW since vanilla beta have been with the people I was with, and not the actual content I was doing.

Maybe in 2 or 3 more expacs Blizzard will realize how important a MMO being a social experience is again. It only took them 3 to realize that catch up mechanics and making the game take less and less time to "beat" doesn't work in a MMO. Something I realized in WOTLK FFS.

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Even if they added 3 more raid tiers, you'd only be doing the current raid tier right now anyways. You'd do catch up mechanics then have nothing to do but a single raid for ~6 months, and if you aren't a raider you'd have jack shit to do.

The problem isn't lack of content, it's catch up mechanics, making content besides the current irrelevant and making content last less than 10 hours.

You speak from my heart. I hope you're right about the removal of catch-ups in Legion because I haven't seen anything that gives me that impression from the little research I've done.

I don't think there's nearly enough content, although I absolutely agree that catch-up kills the little content we get before a new tier is released. Hell, dungeons were obsolete almost immediately in WoD. TBC/WotLK had far more dungeons/raids, so why should we expect less now? We're about to have the second expansion in a row with a 14-month long end raid. As long as we have multiple difficulties, we're never going to get the same amount of content, and I'm always going to get bored regardless of whether or not they remove the catch-up mechanics.

[ShiyoKozuki]

If anything elitism has contributed a lot more to WoW's "downfall". People demanding achievements for pugs only a week or 2 after content has been released, not accepting people for Challenge modes unless they got bis gear and CM gold achievements, demanding gear lvls that outgear the content the group will be doing, mythic guilds don't accept raiders unless they have raided mythic in the past or in the current tier.

The same thing is happening with PvP too, which is why PvP is dead af. Nobody PvPs because higher skilled players never give you a chance. If you don't have the 1800 achievement nobody in the 1800s plays with you, same thing with 2200+. The so called top players that i see on twitch constantly losing to 2200 teams, refuse to play with players that aren't 2700+ even though they lose to 2200 players on a regular basis.

How are new players supposed to progress, if the veterans simply don't give them the chance to progress?

Cross server. Gigantic player pool to choose from so you can be as picky as you want. People are too disposable because there's so many to choose from so you just kick people until you find the perfect match.

Back in the day where you only had your server to choose from, you picked someone willing to learn or stuck with whoever you were lucky enough to get, and worked as a team to get as far as you could.

Cross server ruined the entire game.

[melodramocracy]

The levels of denial in this thread are kind of hilarious.

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They put all the work into the dungeon journal but nobody bothers to actually go through it, I am guilty of this too.

It shouldn't exist in the first place.

[Deleted]

This objection is really stupid. "Everything is easy if we ignore all the parts that aren't." You are objecting not to the game being easy, but to it having any part that is easy.

Look, there are many many people who consider that finishing the content once means they're done. So then if you finish a raid on LFR or Normal, tehnically you're done. In easy mode, yes, but you're done. There is no other content, only harder mode of same content. So the content you had was easy to finish. Do you understand now?

Oh, and by the way, even if you disagree, it doesn't matter, many people think like this, so for them the content is still done once they see it in LFR or Normal from their point of view.

So again, once these people see the raids, which... are the only content we truly got this expansion alongside a crappy Hellfire, they're done. Since the social aspect is almost dead, there's nothing left to keep them here. So they leave. Some come back next patch or next expansions, but most leave for good, for they played a game that was fun but not really extraordinary in any way... in fact, quite the opposite, since they ended up in LFR so much all they saw were people zerging a boss, dieing, some trolls etc.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

True. But it does depend on YOUR meaning of casualisation. And not everything that has been made "casual" is a negative.

Positive casualisation:
- no more weaponskills
- no more annoying /trade spamming
- no more insane amount of clicking pér corpse but massloot
- mounts at level 20 (or even level 1)
- map with questing areas
- duo spec

negative casualisation:
- outdoor world is trivial and everyone wants to plow through it asap to be done with it BECAUSE it is trivial
- dungeons are trivial and everyone wants to plow through it asap to be done with it BECAUSE it is trivial
- teleportation towards a dungeon via LFX-tool
- garrions and how they were implemented suited the casual player but removed any need for the player who had more time to spend to spend that time in WoW.
- etc

So yes casualisation did make people leave. But I think if Blizzard did "OTHER" casualisationstuff instead, it would be far less of an exodus.
And I do not blame the casuals themselves. I haven't heard anyone for a teleport towards those dungeons. Sure now that they have it, they won't let go of it. But no one complained about them before.

I think this about nails it. Quality of life improvements are one thing; dumbing down content is another. Players used to rise to the challenge, but Blizzard lost faith and removed too many challenges. "Lack of Content" is really lack of fun challenges.

One reason I support having the zones level with you in Legion is that I get to play all of them without out-leveling them. They should include more outdoor content that encourages grouping and collaboration. Problem-solving. Stuff you feel good about after you've figured it out.

[apelsinjuice]

LFR and catch up mechanics makes people consume content too fast and leave the game until new content is added. Then there is more problems like nothing relevant to do besides raiding if you want to progress in gear.

[Stacie]

Although i like raiding mythic and being in the best kit i can. I would still rather it be removed and just have heroic and raid 1 day a week and be in best kit. More time to do other things in life There are more important and fun things in life than spending 9hs+ a week gaming.

[apelsinjuice]

Although i like raiding mythic and being in the best kit i can. I would still rather it be removed and just have heroic and raid 1 day a week and be in best kit. More time to do other things in life There are more important and fun things in life than spending 9hs+ a week gaming.

And that is one of the reasons why WoW drops 5 million subs between last raid and new expansions. People raid LFR 1 day a week for 1 month, get all the best LFR gear and then unsub for 13 months.

[Deleted]

I am a hardcore raider but without casuals, I wouldn't play this game. The world has to feel alive, it has to feel like its inhabited by a lot of different characters (players) - without casuals, hardcore raiders would die out of loneliness.

[Osmeric]

And that is one of the reasons why WoW drops 5 million subs between last raid and new expansions. People raid LFR 1 day a week for 1 month, get all the best LFR gear and then unsub for 13 months.

As opposed to not having LFR and unsubbing even earlier.

The problem isn't LFR, the problem is an end game designed around an activity (raiding) that most people don't really like.

[Deleted]

As opposed to not having LFR and unsubbing even earlier.

The problem isn't LFR, the problem is an end game designed around an activity (raiding) that most people don't really like.

True if lfr rewarded gear equal to normal dungeons it would solve a lot of the issues with it.

[cwowtbang]

True if lfr rewarded gear equal to normal dungeons it would solve a lot of the issues with it.

IIRC they were going to make LFR drop blue quality gear then people lost their shit about it. I think it should drop blue gear. Minimal effort, minimal reward.

[Deleted]

IIRC they were going to make LFR drop blue quality gear then people lost their shit about it. I think it should drop blue gear. Minimal effort, minimal reward.

It can drop any color so long as the ilv matches normals.

[Echocho]

Although i like raiding mythic and being in the best kit i can. I would still rather it be removed and just have heroic and raid 1 day a week and be in best kit. More time to do other things in life There are more important and fun things in life than spending 9hs+ a week gaming.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of high end raiders were among the ones that left in WOD. I've never experienced as many burnouts as in WOD due to mythic raiding.

[Osmeric]

True if lfr rewarded gear equal to normal dungeons it would solve a lot of the issues with it.

That wouldn't solve any problem with LFR. How is reducing LFR reward supposed to make anyone sub for longer?

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I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of high end raiders were among the ones that left in WOD. I've never experienced as many burnouts as in WOD due to mythic raiding.

The notion that adding a really tough raiding mode would be good for the game has hopefully been disproved in WoD.

[Jtbrig7390]

Even on this site the majority are saying its false.

That says alot...

[endersblade]

I beg to differ. I think the hyper-focusing of raiding at the expense of everything else is the biggest problem in WoW.

In other words, catering to the hardcore elite minority, not the casuals, who are the majority, is the problem. If a few elite raid teams stop playing, you're looking at maybe ~1000 people quitting WoW. No big loss. But if casuals have nothing to do to progress other than raid, you are looking at thousands or even hundreds of thousands of potentially lost subs. But for some reason, Blizzard decided those ~100 were more important.

[Jtbrig7390]

It can drop any color so long as the ilv matches normals.

Really upsets people like you that others get subpar gear doesn't it.

Next thing you know people like you want all charaters who haven't done NM+ to be branded with some idiot title.

[Deleted]

Cross server. Gigantic player pool to choose from so you can be as picky as you want. People are too disposable because there's so many to choose from so you just kick people until you find the perfect match.

Back in the day where you only had your server to choose from, you picked someone willing to learn or stuck with whoever you were lucky enough to get, and worked as a team to get as far as you could.

Cross server ruined the entire game.

How exactly do you expect me gaining reputation on my medium populated server if I play at odd hours, so I cannot even be there when the majority plays?