C'Thun bug?

[PPN]

So i was playing priest vs priest and he throws down his cthun. I was waiting all the game for it and entombed it. Few turns later he throws down twilight darkmender (twice) and it heals him both times for 10 hp...i mean WTF?

It says "if your cthun..." Ok im sorry bro, but you have no cthun.

So a bug?

[Calfredd]

The cards do read "wherever it is" and C'thun still gets buffed even if it was polymorphed.

[Rizendragon]

The cards do read "wherever it is" and C'thun still gets buffed even if it was polymorphed.

This. C'Thun decks are based on simply having the card in your deck. It's a lore type reference to how the old gods are omniscient and can control tons of shit which is the flavor of both the card and the theme of the decks.

[Zethras]

So i was playing priest vs priest and he throws down his cthun. I was waiting all the game for it and entombed it. Few turns later he throws down twilight darkmender (twice) and it heals him both times for 10 hp...i mean WTF?

It says "if your cthun..." Ok im sorry bro, but you have no cthun.

So a bug?

If bob goes to a bakery and steals a loaf of bread, it’s not HIS loaf of bread. My c’thun is still mine, it’s just in your deck. :P

[Jester Joe]

Not a bug, as far as I understand the C'Thun rules. "Your C'thun" is apparently an entity that exists outside of the card itself - even if you don't have a C'Thun in your deck at all! (Apparently it's possible to not have a C'Thun in your deck at all, buff it to 10/10 with minions, and still get the heal from a Darkmender, for instance)

I've only seen one person ever run a C'thun card without C'thun so far, and no buff came up.

The reports seem to be according to the other thread that it was a bug for the first few days that C'thun cards would proc without C'thun, but now they don't.

I'll have to test it later to get to the bottom of it I suppose myself.

But otherwise OP's situation is not a bug, it's wherever your C'thun is. Including the other players deck. Same as pointed out with the Polymorph thing, but worth mentioning if C'thun dies as a sheep, he can't be brought back through Doomcaller.

[Jester Joe]

Yeah, he doesn't pop up when a buff is played if he's not in your deck, but the "entity" still seems to exist and will activate the "10 attack or more" cards.

That is, at least as of a few days ago. :O

How though if there's no C'thun to be buffed?

And I don't mean that in a "You're wrong!" way, I just mean it's illogical for the card to work that way. Although I suppose "Wherever it is" is extremely vague, and why you would even run enough C'thun buffs to get 10 for activator without C'thun himself is beyond me.

[PPN]

This card particulalry doesnt say "wherever it is". It says "your" ....so it doesnt make sense to me.

I guess to make it more logical they would have to program 10 mins longer ....

I think its jus dumb. When you play your cthun and the opponent manages to fuck him up and play on you shouldnt also be rewarded by stupid mechanics that boost you even when you missplayed it.

But i guess that wasnt the goal with cthun decks. I might be wrong but i feel like cthun decks will totally kill the variety of decks in hs.

[Jester Joe]

It's because the "entity" (I keep calling it that, but I just made it up, it's not an official thing. ) seems to exist entirely independent of the card. It's why your C'Thun can be Emtombed, Polymorphed, Hexed - which are all, in essence, the same as not being in your deck at all - but all the effects remain. It's also why your opponent can Entomb your 20/20 C'Thun and it won't trigger their Darkmender, nor will it be 20/20 when they play it. Because the entity called "Your C'Thun" is independent of the actual card.

Edit: Another way of seeing the independence in action is that if you actually play C'Thun and he gets hit by a Aldor Peacekeeper, your Darkmender will still heal you as long as it's "normal" attack is over 10.

(However, what gets weird is that - according to the Hearthstone Gamepedia page - if your C'Thun is 8/8 normally and you play it and then put a buff such as Abusive Sergeant on it, then your Darkmender will heal you if you play it that turn. So it's not totally independent if that part is true.)

But that's the thing, even if they entomb your C'thun, it's still in the game somewhere. If it was polymorphed, it still existed in the game at some point, same with hex.

If you don't put it in your deck, it doesn't exist at all, there shouldn't be anything to buff by that logic.

[Lord Pebbleton]

Maybe the sentence "wherever he is" means that C'thun is counted just for being in your collection? And since everyone has C'thun by default...

[Raiju]

C'thun 10+ activators also still work even if you silence c'thun, which is bullshit imo.

[Jester Joe]

I went and tested it, the cards do still activate even without C'thun in the deck as long as he would be above 10.

[Raiju]

Yep. As long as the "ideal" state (as the Gamepedia page calls it) is at least 10 attack, the 10+ cards work regardless of the actual state of the C'Thun card if he happens to be in play.

Like I said, it's best if people just separate "My C'Thun" from the actual card called "C'Thun".

I understand WHY it happens, I'm saying it shouldn't - it goes against all card text.

[Rennadrel]

So long as he is in the game for the player in some capacity, as in he was placed in the deck to begin with. As far as I can tell, he wouldn't be considered dead either.

[Taalyn]

Yeah here's proof. EDIT: Apparently Innkeeper doesn't show up in screenshots but I assure you I didn't have C'Thun in my deck

[Jester Joe]

Yeah here's proof. EDIT: Apparently Innkeeper doesn't show up in screenshots but I assure you I didn't have C'Thun in my deck

[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/dbjcxy.png[IMG]

[IMG]http://i63.tinypic.com/f19shu.png[IMG]

If people still doubt it, I can do a recording but eh, seems unneeded.

[Jester Joe]

Nah, I think we've explained and demonstrated enough.

It's unintuitive as hell at first, but frankly makes little difference in anything. The only issue I could see is someone thinking that they've prevented a battlecry by debuffing a C'Thun card, but that's just something to learn.

And I'm not sure how high the amount of people will be running C'thun buffs without C'thun himself. Aside from maybe like, just to run Twin Emperors or something...hell if I know.

[Taalyn]

I've seen Disciples of C'Thun in non-C'Thun decks but that's just because of the Battlecry.

[Calfredd]

Well the C'thun minions are great for their cost so even without C'thun, they're pretty decent like the 4/2 with divine shield.

[Vurdah]

Not a bug, as far as I understand the C'Thun rules. "Your C'thun" is apparently an entity that exists outside of the card itself - even if you don't have a C'Thun in your deck at all! (Apparently it's possible to not have a C'Thun in your deck at all, buff it to 10/10 with minions, and still get the heal from a Darkmender, for instance)

Given that, the only interaction that's a little unintuitive is the fact that a Doomcaller won't return the card to your deck if C'Thun was transformed in some way rather than being killed. Your "C'Thun Entity" still exists, but since the card did not die, it doesn't fulfill the requirements to be returned to your deck.

Can confirm. I just played a C'Thun-less C'Thun deck and was able to get the +5 hp from Klaxxi Amber-weaver for C'Thun having 10 attack/health.

[Mahourai]

I've seen Disciples of C'Thun in non-C'Thun decks but that's just because of the Battlecry.

This is really bizarre because outside of the C'thun interaction, Disciple is worse than Argent Horserider.