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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefsquatch View Post
    It is. It's like people want to remain naive.
    To be fair these people will legit think that there is no problem every expansion
    Quote Originally Posted by RedGamer030 View Post
    I do not need to be constructive in this thread, nor provide an argument. There is nothing here to actually debate. Your reasoning is flawed and thusly you have no argument.
    ↑ Epitome of Internet Logic

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    With the recent responses to Brewmasters and Arms warriors on the front page of MMO champ is Legion in danger of being WoD 2.0? It seems to me that stripping and pruning away class defining skills and talents and not filling the void with compelling game play is leaving many with a bitter taste in their mouth.

    In short, is Blizz banking too much on legendary set bonuses, class set bonuses, and trinkets to offer dynamic game play? Or is it fundamentally better to build classes and specs that are dynamic and interesting before the introduction of set bonuses and trinkets? Thoughts?
    Very worried that they are still in Alpha with release right around the corner. Going to end up with half finished crap again

  3. #203
    Well, I personally find it cute that people harp on every little detail that they don't like instead of trying to enjoy the game and have fun. You know, the main point of a video game? Lmao, sad shit indeed.

  4. #204
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    I'm happy with fury warrior and ret pallies so far. I think disc priests will be fun too and shammies look amazing. Resto druids again look way op in PVP. Feral druids look fun too. The classes that seem to be nerfed for legion don't really bother me since I don't play them that much anyways.

  5. #205
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kakera View Post
    Well, I personally find it cute that people harp on every little detail that they don't like instead of trying to enjoy the game and have fun. You know, the main point of a video game? Lmao, sad shit indeed.
    i agree its like these people think it will affect them IRL

  6. #206
    Every other post in this thread is lamenting about it still being called alpha. Blizzard changed their naming strategy from any previous test phases, it has no meaning on the "state" of legion compared to previous test phases, get over it already, and it suddenly becoming beta will not cause a massive influx of people (albeit some for sure) - if they wanted to "hide" the (lack of) progress in Legion, inviting streamers was certainly the wrong crowd, wouldn't you agree?

    People tend to complain about all sorts of class changes for all sorts of reasons. Personally I think the Outlaw rogue with his dice mechanic looks super fun and finally a break from all super predictable static rotations. Having to adapt the play style on the fly to different buffs happening? Sounds good to me! Other players feel differently of course, but that doesn't change that your opinion isn't the only one. The internet is largely negative, because those that remain neutral or positive don't come here to complain - they just play the game.
    Last edited by Nevcairiel; 2016-05-07 at 11:41 PM.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    Your analogy fails because damage tuning didn't fix Legion Sub and simply can't.

    Legion Sub still has poor AoE.

    Still has energy issues outside of shadow dance.

    Backstab's positional requirement still a punishment.

    Shadow Dance cool down turned into a weaker version via charges

    Shadow Blades cool down devalued because SnD was removed from the spec. The spec has lots of CP generation, thus Shadow Blades is a poor major CD for Legion Sub.

    You have no control over Shadow Nova or Akari's Soul.

    SoD = Savage Roar 2.0/Hunger For Blood

    No, just no.
    That doesn't make my example a failure -- it means that there's design problems with sub. My point wasn't that tuning ALWAYS obfuscates feedback, my point was that it CAN. In some instances, the core gameplay hook is a problem (as you point out with sub in Legion). In other instances, the example I gave can be the case.

    For example, one of the issues with Demon Hunters to my understanding is Chaos Strike just has too much baked into it, to the point that almost every other ability Demon Hunters have is "situational." Tuning can easily fix that.

    Also, aren't things like energy reason and cooldown power both part of tuning? They haven't done a finalized tuning pass yet.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Letdown View Post
    That doesn't make my example a failure -- it means that there's design problems with sub. My point wasn't that tuning ALWAYS obfuscates feedback, my point was that it CAN. In some instances, the core gameplay hook is a problem (as you point out with sub in Legion). In other instances, the example I gave can be the case.

    For example, one of the issues with Demon Hunters to my understanding is Chaos Strike just has too much baked into it, to the point that almost every other ability Demon Hunters have is "situational." Tuning can easily fix that.

    Also, aren't things like energy reason and cooldown power both part of tuning? They haven't done a finalized tuning pass yet.
    You have apparently failed to read the last ten pages.

    Blizz has said they are done with 99% of mechanical changes. That is why they started damage tuning this past build.

    Thanks for reinforcing that you don't know what you are talking about. Thanks.

  9. #209
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    The official forums are going to be GLORIOUS if the classes go live as they are on alpha. Said it before, if you think this is whining, when players voice their concern while there still should be time to change some mechanincs, then youre in for a rude awakening.

    Classes feel WAY too flat/boring and barebone and its almost a guarantee that the voices for legacy servers or whatever will rise even higher after pre-patch hits.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Goeres View Post
    The official forums are going to be GLORIOUS if the classes go live as they are on alpha. Said it before, if you think this is whining, when players voice their concern while there still should be time to change some mechanincs, then youre in for a rude awakening.

    Classes feel WAY too flat/boring and barebone and its almost a guarantee that the voices for legacy servers or whatever will rise even higher after pre-patch hits.
    Haha that's cute, suggesting people who find classes flat will want to go to a time where classes were at their flattest.
    For the Alliance, and for Azeroth!

  11. #211
    Without wading thru the 11 preceding pages, i'd like to just throw this out there...

    The game is still in it's alpha stage. I am writing this as of 5/7/2016 and the finished game is supposed to come out 8/30/2016. The fact it's still classified as alpha this late into development is disconcerting, not to mention the sheer amount of play testing/feedback they have already received on stuff.

    If the classes are feeling underwhelming now...it's most likely going to be that going into launch (barring tuning and balancing, playability is gonna go live as is more or less). at this point stating "Alpha is Alpha" or if it actually gets called Beta, stating "Beta is Beta" holds zero water.

    If you made that statement back in Jan/Feb, then sure...but this late into testing? No, this is what we are getting going into Launch, be hopeful tuning and artifact abilities fill the gaps at the start of things and then they redesign things on live when the entire population gets in on all the eventual problems.
    If you are progressing through content just to obtain gear, you are doing it wrong. You, in fact, are doing it exactly backwards.
    You are the leader of the Black Harvest, go harvest some squirrels and crack some more nuts. Sir.

  12. #212
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by gcsmith View Post
    Haha that's cute, suggesting people who find classes flat will want to go to a time where classes were at their flattest.

    How adorable, its not just about your rotation and main damage spells. Its more about class fantasy and utlility than anything.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Goeres View Post
    The official forums are going to be GLORIOUS if the classes go live as they are on alpha. Said it before, if you think this is whining, when players voice their concern while there still should be time to change some mechanincs, then youre in for a rude awakening.

    Classes feel WAY too flat/boring and barebone and its almost a guarantee that the voices for legacy servers or whatever will rise even higher after pre-patch hits.
    WoD was simply a trial balloon to see how far they could go with pruning. Surprisingly they put all their chips in Legion despite knowing that the backlash of the pruning in WoD alone was pretty significant.

    Expectation of a stronger reaction to the pruning in Legion is very likely.

  14. #214
    You know its called ALPHA right? lol... people

  15. #215
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Grindfactor View Post
    You know its called ALPHA right? lol... people
    The classes feel just as flat as when the alpha started. Nothing has really changed in half a year of testing and alpha is supposedly coming to a close (soonish)

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Nethlord View Post
    Without wading thru the 11 preceding pages, i'd like to just throw this out there...

    The game is still in it's alpha stage. I am writing this as of 5/7/2016 and the finished game is supposed to come out 8/30/2016. The fact it's still classified as alpha this late into development is disconcerting, not to mention the sheer amount of play testing/feedback they have already received on stuff.

    If the classes are feeling underwhelming now...it's most likely going to be that going into launch (barring tuning and balancing, playability is gonna go live as is more or less). at this point stating "Alpha is Alpha" or if it actually gets called Beta, stating "Beta is Beta" holds zero water.

    If you made that statement back in Jan/Feb, then sure...but this late into testing? No, this is what we are getting going into Launch, be hopeful tuning and artifact abilities fill the gaps at the start of things and then they redesign things on live when the entire population gets in on all the eventual problems.
    The 'finished game' has to come out by June 30th. That's when the pre-patch goes to the PTR. There always has been 30 days of pre-patch on live before the expansion launches.

    It's effectively late beta right now.

    General – Tuning has started! A very rough pass has been made over all classes to get them into the same ballpark. Note that we have not yet finished a first tuning pass on artifacts yet; some specs are still significantly under- or over-powered with full artifacts. At this point, class mechanics are firm, but not necessarily set in stone yet.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grindfactor View Post
    You know its called ALPHA right? lol... people
    Alpha/Beta is just a name, not to mention it's silly to call it alpha this late. So "alpha" doesn't give it a free pass. Dungeon and raid testing has been happening for quite a while. The zones and halls are done. Thousands of players have been playing for many months. It's not an alpha anymore.

    Keep in mind all games goes gold to go to disc printers/packaging 1 month before release, which with wow is also when the pre-event will start. So that leaves less than 90 days essentially to finish 7.0. They aren't going to be making large mechanics changes now for 7.0, just damage tuning and bug fixing.

    Obviously wow is always very dynamic and there are constant patches/tuning, but they aren't going to do anything major this late like do away with class halls, or artifact weapons, or drastically change class mechanics. We're very much into the bug fixing and +10%, -10% damage tuning phase now. That's well into beta for all practical purposes whether Blizz wants to actually call it beta or not. As far as I'm concerned if they were naming things accurately based on dev progress, alpha was done a few months ago.

    I will say though that from Blizzard's standpoint keeping the game in "alpha" state in name this late has been really beneficial for them. It's helped keep the roars for "where's my beta key" to a minimum, and gives them an easy out on any complaints about the game state. But I think more discerning folks need to understand that it's a stretch to still use the alpha excuse now in May with an August release. That's only like 11 weeks to go before it goes to disc pressing.

  18. #218
    Deleted
    Guys, WoD is still in Alpha - this could explain why Cap / Doom Nova trinkets are still wearable by Rogous and Mages. There's a flat 30%-50% difference between best and worst performing classes on live. While the game won't ever be balanced, its hard to believe that Blizzard even tries to balance it at this point. Especially with the same people creating Legion, who also worked on WoD.

  19. #219
    Deleted
    Blizzard letting there be 50% difference in DPS made an insane mistake.

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoulSoBreezy View Post
    I think you're overreacting.
    I think he's right on the money. I don't want to play a class that's completely gimped compared to live unless I get the right gear and weapons by wasting away in front of my computer screen. The design philosophy in Legion is very worrying.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by wing5wong View Post
    Yup legion is doomed. Unfinished classes in alpha. Rip wow
    They've only got a few months to solve the problem, stop jacking off to the fact it's 'only' Alpha. Use your fucking brain.
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