(Spoilers) Anyone play the Horde Broken Shore yet?

[rda]

The fact that people are arguing over this so vehemently means Blizzard wrote it pretty well. You guys are having the same argument that the in game characters are having. The thing is, you're having it despite also having full knowledge of what happened to the other faction, which is something the characters don't have. This sounds awesome. As someone who plays both sides, I'm pumped.

Not really.

I will say that what seems to have happened on the Broken Shore suits the Horde well, they were erratic untrustworthy cowards and what we can see in the scenarios is a good illustration to that. So, yes, I am satisfied in that respect, in that Blizzard writers somehow managed to get the tone right this time.

But is that great writing? Nah. Am I thrilled discussing what happened? Not very, the *only* thing I am interested in discussing regarding this is that the events demonstrate yet again that the Horde are untrustworthy and have no honor. That's the extent of my interest. I don't care about who the Alliance chased, I don't really care about who died even, etc. You are saying that we are having the same argument that the characters in the game are having, but I don't really think this is the case.

Nothing pumping, frankly. I know Anduin will be a spineless idiot once again. Or, worse, some blue is going to notice the noise and is going to helpfully fill in the blanks that there are in the story in a manner that shows that the Alliance party who stayed were just idiots and the Horde party that fled were the wisemen. It happened several times in the past, it can happen again here. But until that happens, there's some satisfaction in that what seems to have happened suits the Horde well, that's all.

[Deleted]

While I perfectly agree, that code of honor is the raison d'etre of the orcs. Lok'tar ogar and all.

The Orcs aren't leading this assault.

[Ersula]

you don't understand how lore works either. The player-controlled heroes are a tiny part of the horde / alliance.

(i should start charging for these posts, half the time i am explaining obvious things to ignorant yet aggressive people.)

watch the videos before you comment. You are embarrassing yourself, rda.

[rda]

watch the videos before you comment. You are embarrassing yourself, rda.

I watched the videos.

What part of what I am saying you disagree with?

Here's my phrase to which you replied - "The player-controlled heroes are a tiny part of the horde / alliance." Go ahead.

[boyzma]

You need to be able to be in alpha and play both sides to see the truth. It's apparent this isn't available to everyone and they are jumping to conclussions and I really wonder why are getting so hysterical about a game. Both sides....both...not one...but both....get the hell out of there when it's hopeless. Then there's the cut scenes which NO ONE at this point knows what happens. They could all gather at McDonalds for burgers afterwards for all we know. The alliance isn't to blame and the Horde isn't to blame...so take off the blinders and see the truth. It's great to be passionate about a game but sometimes you really should go outside and take a walk or something, it's not real...it's a game.

[Deleted]

I will say that what seems to have happened on the Broken Shore suits the Horde well, they were erratic untrustworthy cowards and what we can see in the scenarios is a good illustration to that. So, yes, I am satisfied in that respect, in that Blizzard writers somehow managed to get the tone right this time.

When someone uses a biased subjective opinion on valid military tactics. The Horde withdrawal, after learning that they couldn't win against unwinnable odds and even getting their own leader fatally wounded, is neither erratic nor untrustworthy nor coward.

It's not erratic because a withdrawal is the organized retreat of a field army. It does seems that Sylvanas is praised by the Horde for her commands and successful retreat from the Broken Shore, so it doesn't look like a rout.

It's not untrustworthy because the Alliance and the Horde attacked the Broken Shore as two independent commands. The Horde is not responsible for the Alliance's decisions or survival.

It's not coward because it's completely stupid to throw leadership and entire armies into the grind because "honor". Both forces acted stupidly on the Broken Shore, keeping to press on without further scouting.

Nothing pumping, frankly. I know Anduin will be a spineless idiot once again. Or, worse, some blue is going to notice the noise and is going to helpfully fill in the blanks that there are in the story in a manner that shows that the Alliance party who stayed were just idiots and the Horde party that fled were the wisemen. It happened several times in the past, it can happen again here. But until that happens, there's some satisfaction in that what seems to have happened suits the Horde well, that's all.

And then you show your complete bias. "Anduin is bad because he doesn't attack the awful Horde". The only good Horde is a dead Horde, am I right? Then why call them "untrustworthy" and "cowards" if you don't want the Horde to exist in the first place?

[greeeed]

When someone uses a biased subjective opinion on valid military tactics. The Horde withdrawal, after learning that they couldn't win against unwinnable odds and even getting their own leader fatally wounded, is neither erratic nor untrustworthy nor coward.

It's not erratic because a withdrawal is the organized retreat of a field army. It does seems that Sylvanas is praised by the Horde for her commands and successful retreat from the Broken Shore, so it doesn't look like a rout.

It's not untrustworthy because the Alliance and the Horde attacked the Broken Shore as two independent commands. The Horde is not responsible for the Alliance's decisions or survival.

It's not coward because it's completely stupid to throw leadership and entire armies into the grind because "honor". Both forces acted stupidly on the Broken Shore, keeping to press on without further scouting.



And then you show your complete bias. "Anduin is bad because he doesn't attack the awful Horde". The only good Horde is a dead Horde, am I right? Then why call them "untrustworthy" and "cowards" if you don't want the Horde to exist in the first place?

-It's like two different county attack common enemy who want to kill both of them.
-So, Country X and Y attack the enemy at same time to protect their home land and everything they hold dear.
-Enemy was far stronger then their wilds dream.
-Country X fight till the end to complete their side of operation.
-Country Y who was supposed to attack enemy side, But because they can't win, they decided run away while Country "X" still fighting to save as much they can of their army.


Is it smart move Yes.
Is it di*k move? 120% Yes.

Which is Forsaken specially since they don't have any positive emotion.

They will watch alliance soldiers (and other horde races) die without doing anything if they could get profit from it.

[Deleted]

-It's like two different county attack common enemy who want to kill both of them.
-So, Country X and Y attack the enemy at same time to protect their home land and everything they hold dear.
-Enemy was far stronger then their wilds dream.
-Country X fight till the end to complete their side of operation.
-Country Y who was supposed to attack enemy side, But because they can't win, they decided run away while Country "X" still fighting to save as much they can of their army.


Is it smart move Yes.
Is it di*k move? 120% Yes.

Which is Forsaken specially since they don't have any positive emotion.

They will watch alliance soldiers (and other horde races) die without doing anything if they could get profit from it.

Except that both armies failed their operations because bad field scouting. The Alliance reached the main gate and the Horde reached the flanking position before they were overwhelmed by the teleporting demons. Focus on "overwhelmed".

[greeeed]

Except that both armies failed their operations because bad field scouting. The Alliance reached the main gate and the Horde reached the flanking position before they were overwhelmed by the teleporting demons. Focus on "overwhelmed".

One tried to protect all good in world against might and overwhelming enemy no matter what.
Other decided to abandon the operation and run away the second they received low casualty.

They could at-least send signal to let them know that they decided to abandon the battle, but no, they leave the battlefield they second they though they will lose.

She did save most of the horde army, at cost of using alliance army as a bait. And then wonder why they don't trust her.

[Deleted]

One tried to protect all good in world against might and overwhelming enemy no matter what.
Other decided to abandon the operation and run away the second they received low casualty.

They could at-least send signal to let them know that they decided to abandon the battle, but no, they leave the battlefield they second they though they will lose.

She did save most of the horde army, at cost of using alliance army as a bait. And then wonder why they don't trust her.

Source? Because that's not what happens during the scenario and we still don't know the cinematics. All that we know is the Alliance and the Horde were facing the exact same unwinnable odds, pressed by countless demons. It's even possible that all that the Alliance sees is the Horde "fleeing" from the ledge without even seeing that they were forced by the demons to retreat.

[Grosbill]

I wonder if rda wants the Gilneans out of the alliance...

Because they were definitely untrustworthy, cowardly and erratic.

They also told the rest of the Alliance to get lost when the scourge attacked

[Azahel]

It changes nothing. Read the thread that I linked.

No shit they would've been wiped out if they didn't retreat. The Alliance were in the same position. The Alliance stayed, the Horde fled. Blood and Honor, I guess.

Your "probably" is laughable, by the way. This was a relatively small force. And again, the Alliance were in the same position, they *were* wiped out and somehow this doesn't mean "doom of the Alliance and eventually Azeroth to the Legion". Wild exaggerations like your "probably" are just another thing cowards say.

So much for "Victory or Death"
They did deserve Garrosh after all, he did flee from his fight with Varian after getting beaten on the 1x1 by him on Ashenvale.

[rda]

And then you show your complete bias. "Anduin is bad because he doesn't attack the awful Horde". The only good Horde is a dead Horde, am I right? Then why call them "untrustworthy" and "cowards" if you don't want the Horde to exist in the first place?

Here's what Anduin's dialog should have been:

Jaina: <tells that the Horde flew from the battlefield>
Anduin: Tell me exactly what happened.
<Anduin listens to Jaina, Genn, whoever else was on the Shore - they tell him what the Horde did>
<Anduin thinks for some time>
Anduin: This is difficult. We can't fight the Horde now with the Legion at our doors. But it is clear that we can't rely on them. At best, they might suddenly decide mid-way through a fight that they are better off retreating and go home even if that leaves us exposed. At worst, they might do this in order to harm us. From now on we stop treating the Horde as an ally, they aren't an ally, not even a temporary one. We are treating them as a passive threat. When we are making plans, we are making them in the way that even if the Horde want to harm us, their ability to do so is limited. And when and if the Legion is over, we are going against the Horde.

Jaina and Genn nod, we have a king with an actual brain and willpower and not a spineless stupid pussy to be ashamed of.

[Zharikov]

No, you are not, you are putting words into my mouth.

Here's what Anduin's dialog should have been:

Jaina: <tells that the Horde flew from the battlefield>
Anduin: Tell me exactly what happened.
<Anduin listens to Jaina, Genn, whoever else was on the Shore - they tell him what the Horde did>
<Anduin thinks for some time>
Anduin: This is difficult. We can't fight the Horde now with the Legion at our doors. But it is clear that we can't rely on them. At best, they might suddenly decide mid-way through a fight that they are better off retreating and go home even if that leaves us exposed. At worst, they might do this in order to harm us. From now on we stop treating the Horde as an ally, they aren't an ally, not even a temporary one. We are treating them as a passive threat. When we are making plans, we are making them in the way that even if the Horde want to harm us, their ability to do so is limited. And when and if the Legion is over, we are going against the Horde.

Jaina and Genn nod, we have a king with an actual brain and willpower.

all i heard from that is you hate the horde and want them dead. you said it yourself, against the horde.

[rda]

all i heard from that is you hate the horde and want them dead. you said it yourself, against the horde.

I guess you can't read then. Yes, I am against the Horde. No, I am not saying that we should kill them all, it's way more complex.

- - - Updated - - -

By the way, here's a little nugget for the guys who keep saying "watch the video", pretending it shows that the Horde are bunnies and not cowards:

Open the video on the front page and scroll to 14:44.

Observe Sylvanas saying: "Broken Shore was just the beginning. The Alliance will retaliate. Given the opportunity, they will strike when we are weak."

She knows who's been naughty. She knows the Horde fled like cowards.

[Zharikov]

I guess you can't read then. Yes, I am against the Horde. No, I am not saying that we should kill them all, it's way more complex.

- - - Updated - - -

By the way, here's a little nugget for the guys who keep saying "watch the video", pretending it shows that the Horde are bunnies and not cowards:

Open the video on the front page and scroll to 14:44.

Observe Sylvanas saying: "Broken Shore was just the beginning. The Alliance will retaliate. Given the opportunity, they will strike when we are weak."

She knows who's been naughty. She knows the Horde fled like cowards.

clearly just shows the alliance are bloodthirsty and not to be trusted. genn proves that when he attacks when the horde are bringing their attack force to the broken isles to fight against the legion, thereby sabotaging the anti-legion effort and compromising the safety of the world for his own personal vendetta. deplorable.

[rda]

clearly just shows the alliance are bloodthirsty and not to be trusted. genn proves that when he attacks when the horde are bringing their attack force to the broken isles to fight against the legion, thereby sabotaging the anti-legion effort and compromising the safety of the world for his own personal vendetta. deplorable.

ROFL. Clearly.

I get that you think you are so smooth you will call a black white and then throw a pile of nonsense so big, everyone will just stand around breathless not knowing what to say. I hate to break it to you, but this is not the case. What you wrote is just a pile of nonsense.

[Zharikov]

ROFL. Clearly.

I get that you think you are so smooth you will call a black white and then throw a pile of nonsense so big, everyone will just stand around breathless not knowing what to say. I hate to break it to you, but this is not the case. What you wrote is just a pile of nonsense.

whoa there buddy no need to bring race into this now. also, all you need to do is watch the stormheim intros man. genn doesnt even deny that he just saw an opportunity to attack the horde and took it.

[rda]

whoa there buddy no need to bring race into this now. also, all you need to do is watch the stormheim intros man. genn doesnt even deny that he just saw an opportunity to attack the horde and took it.

(Race? Cute.)

This happened after Broken Shore. The Horde demonstrated that they are untrustworthy cowards, and by far not everyone in the Alliance agrees with the spineless idiot on the throne who has no reaction to that. Yes, we aren't allies, we won't hold your back. Don't act surprised, it was you who made it that way. Unlike you, we are saying openly that we aren't your allies, so stay clear.

[Zharikov]

(Race? Cute.)

This happened after Broken Shore. The Horde demonstrated that they are untrustworthy cowards, and by far not everyone in the Alliance agrees with the spineless idiot on the throne who has no reaction to that. Yes, we aren't allies, we won't hold your back. Don't act surprised, it was you who made it that way. Unlike you, we are saying openly that we aren't your allies, so stay clear.

whoa buddy whats with all this we talk here, you're not an npc in the game silly you aren't deciding whether genn decides to betray azeroth or not (which he is, tsk tsk.)