Socializing, server communities, friendships

[ShiyoKozuki]

I think these are the #3 main defining and important features of an MMO. As we have gone further into expansions, we have lost more and more of these things.

My most fond memories are all related to the people I was with when I was playing. From vanilla, to TBC, to wotlk, to CAT, etc. It was always the people I was with, and never the actual content. I'm sure many others feel this way too.

My friends have always what have given me a reason to keep playing, or coming back. Their company is what I enjoy the most, and makes even the most boring mundane tasks fun. Just messing around talking to friends while doing stuff is great.

Why don't we do something to fix this In Legion?

My proposal:

Doing instanced content with a group/raid with x number of people on your server(say 80-90%?) gives you double drops from everything.

Ok, let's say that screws over the randoms in the group. Then make it 100% of the group/raid from same server gives double loot.

This GREATLY encourages you and gives you a HUGE incentive to group up with your server and try to make friends on YOUR server only. In return, this will help make the community a better place because you don't want to be that ninja or rude person - you're literally screwing yourself out of double the amount of loot if you're blacklisted from groups.

A smaller player pool makes for a better player base because you see the same people many many times with a small player pool, compared to one of millions where everyone might as well be an NPC to you because you don't know anyone and rarely encounter them multiple times.

Why do so many people make their best friends in school? Because they're forced to see these same people over, and over, and over and eventually learn things about each other. Someone familiar to you causes you to be more social and lets the shy/social barriers go down more easily if you're used to seeing them around.

Yeah, this will suck for dying servers, but it's in Blizzards best interest to also group small servers together into 1 big normal sized server so they have a community too.

This will really allow players with limited time to get loot, wihle allowing those who want to get more loot and have friendships and community again the option to do so. This change promotes and encourages both play styles while not taking anything away from either of them. It's a win/win situation.

TLDR: Group small servers together so that their player base is the size of a normal larger server, give double the drops per boss to groups that do content with 90-100% of the group from the same server.

[Relapses]

Simply merging dead/dying realms and cutting the total number of WoW servers in half would do a greater justice towards creating a community than further upping the ante by offering gear rewards on top of it.

[Baine]

People would find ways to exploit that. Being on the same server should maybe increase drop rates but not to have more drops per bosses considering many use personal loot.

[ShiyoKozuki]

People would find ways to exploit that. Being on the same server should maybe increase drop rates but not to have more drops per bosses considering many use personal loot.

I honestly don't care, this is a bullshit excuse.

"wE should never do anything good because people might exploit it!"

[Zantos]

You can NOT force socializing. I mean, look at the game now. You have a chance to make new friends and meet people from all over thanks to CRZ and the ground finder. You can have great conversations. The thing is, no one wants to. Most are content just wondering through a dungeon, not saying a word. The problem is also the fact that for most of it, you really Can't talk. You're too busy dpsing to really take time to speak.

Just because you see the same people repeatedly, it doesn't mean you'll 1) interact with them or 2) even try to talk to them. So what exactly is it you think the effect of increased loot from being in a party from the same realm would accomplish? You have to, again, Want to talk in order for any of this to work. Most of the time, they don't want to.

[Deleted]

I don't think it would change much... even in vanilla people formed cliques. I know my server had every raiding member on the realm in a custom chat channel and we only ran with that through most of cata... hell it might still be there i left that server for a raid realm.

Right now the community is really to fractured for this to work unless you added linear progression again. You need everyone to be around the same skill level for that to work well.

[ShiyoKozuki]

There's no negatives for rewarding people for playing with people on the same server/guild. Who cares if it's a failure(as in no one does it) as long as it exists for people who WANT to do it?

There's zero incentives to ever play with or as a guild outside of mythic raiding, that's a problem.

- - - Updated - - -

You can NOT force socializing. I mean, look at the game now. You have a chance to make new friends and meet people from all over thanks to CRZ and the ground finder. You can have great conversations. The thing is, no one wants to. Most are content just wondering through a dungeon, not saying a word. The problem is also the fact that for most of it, you really Can't talk. You're too busy dpsing to really take time to speak.

Just because you see the same people repeatedly, it doesn't mean you'll 1) interact with them or 2) even try to talk to them. So what exactly is it you think the effect of increased loot from being in a party from the same realm would accomplish? You have to, again, Want to talk in order for any of this to work. Most of the time, they don't want to.

Who cares?
If the option exists, it hurts no one by existing. There's no reason not to do it for people who want to do it.

People should be rewarded for wanting to play with other people and not randoms.

These "b-b-b-b-b-b-ut it wont be good or useful!" responses need to stop. It's good because it's there for people who want it, and doesn't harm people who don't want it.

You'll be greatly encouraged to use it because you get literally double the chance at loot, but you can still play with LFG/randoms to your hearts content and see and experience all the gear/content.

Win/win situation. Stop this.

[Deleted]

I think, if you are looking for friends, a computer game is not the best place to go.

We conservative guys think it is way more better to find friends in your local pub. Or its way more better to socialize in something i call "social media". As like Twitter, Facebook or Google. All those services that want you to share all of your infos what you do currently.

A computer game is meant to play a game, and not to build a group of friends. Also, ask yourself what you define as friend. Is it really just people who want to kill pixel bosses? Is a friend someone, who you play computer games together with just for a alliance of purpose?

I believe, if you want real friends, and not just some lootmongers from a WoW raid, you should go outside sometimes. Forget about all those virtual worlds. Meet real people.

[ShiyoKozuki]

I think, if you are looking for friends, a computer game is not the best place to go.

We conservative guys think it is way more better to find friends in your local pub. Or its way more better to socialize in something i call "social media". As like Twitter, Facebook or Google. All those services that want you to share all of your infos what you do currently.

A computer game is meant to play a game, and not to build a group of friends. Also, ask yourself what you define as friend. Is it really just people who want to kill pixel bosses? Is a friend someone, who you play computer games together with just for a alliance of purpose?

I believe, if you want real friends, and not just some lootmongers from a WoW raid, you should go outside sometimes. Forget about all those virtual worlds. Meet real people.

https://youtu.be/jbqKd4TLbgI?t=1299
Listen to this part of the video to see why guilds and friends and community are the top3 important things in an MMO.

[Rheckameohs]

Instead of increasing drop rates, Blizzard should simply give you a buff for grouping with people from your realm instead of randoms. I bet you money people will start forming premades for dungeons after that.

Also, just because you don't have to spam trade chat and LFG to form groups, you can still, you know, talk to people. Server communities are still a thing, and you can still make friends.

[Seefer]

Simply merging dead/dying realms and cutting the total number of WoW servers in half would do a greater justice towards creating a community than further upping the ante by offering gear rewards on top of it.

Doesn't rightly matter if they have cross realm everything

[ShiyoKozuki]

Instead of increasing drop rates, Blizzard should simply give you a buff for grouping with people from your realm instead of randoms. I bet you money people will start forming premades for dungeons after that.

Also, just because you don't have to spam trade chat and LFG to form groups, you can still, you know, talk to people. Server communities are still a thing, and you can still make friends.

You can.
You don't have to.
Humans take the path of least resistance, always, and forever.

[Gilgameshh]

I would only be happy with the complete removal of CRZ grouping.

I like that you're thinking of an idea to fix the situation, but unfortunately the problems of CRZ won't stop until CRZ is gone (and it never will be unless they add pristine servers). The only hope people like us have is the pristine servers in the future, but that certainly won't help us in Legion unless they're well underway with creating them. My guess is that if they're added, it won't be until the expansion following Legion. That's a little too late for a lot of people, so I hope I'm wrong.

[Zantos]

Who cares?

You. Obviously. Are you even here for a discussion of any sort? So far you've been snarky with everyone who you have bothered to reply too.

If the option exists, it hurts no one by existing. There's no reason not to do it for people who want to do it.

People should be rewarded for wanting to play with other people and not randoms.

These "b-b-b-b-b-b-ut it wont be good or useful!" responses need to stop. It's good because it's there for people who want it, and doesn't harm people who don't want it.

You'll be greatly encouraged to use it because you get literally double the chance at loot, but you can still play with LFG/randoms to your hearts content and see and experience all the gear/content.

Win/win situation. Stop this.

People are rewarded for playing with randoms for a simple reason, they need them in the queue so they can actually do the content. You think there are enough people on your own server doing Scholomnace at a low level to fill a group? Or diremaul? What about hellfire dungeons? That is the problem. There probably isn't enough people, let alone tanks or healers, just on your realm alone.

I am not even saying it won't be useful. Why don't you pay attention to what I AM saying. You Can Not Force Social Interaction To Happen. You're talking to a guy who will literally make jokes and puns and strike up random conversations in five mans while I am tanking. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't However, If they don't want to socialize, They Wont.

Its not a problem with wanting to use the system. Its a problem with getting people to Actually talk!!! It's not a win/win situation. Your idea does LITERALLY Nothing to cause social interaction to actually occur.

SO, I ask again, What exactly is the goal of this? How is this suddenly going to actually get them to talk and socialize.

[Gilgameshh]

Instead of increasing drop rates, Blizzard should simply give you a buff for grouping with people from your realm instead of randoms. I bet you money people will start forming premades for dungeons after that.

Also, just because you don't have to spam trade chat and LFG to form groups, you can still, you know, talk to people. Server communities are still a thing, and you can still make friends.

I don't like this idea because it should never come to trivialized content. It's an interesting thought, but I don't think it's reasonable.

Server communities are hardly a thing anymore and people are complaining about it nonstop (rightly so). How's your realm forum looking? If mine didn't exist, I don't think anyone would notice. Sign of the times.

[Zantos]

Instead of increasing drop rates, Blizzard should simply give you a buff for grouping with people from your realm instead of randoms. I bet you money people will start forming premades for dungeons after that.

That is all fine and dandy, but it still doesn't cause people to socialize.

Also, just because you don't have to spam trade chat and LFG to form groups, you can still, you know, talk to people. Server communities are still a thing, and you can still make friends.

Exactly, they just don't because they don't want to. This idea, any incentive to group up within your own realm really, wont suddenly create a want or a reason to socialize with people on your own realm.

[Deleted]

https://youtu.be/jbqKd4TLbgI?t=1299
Listen to this part of the video to see why guilds and friends and community are the top3 important things in an MMO.

As much as i have learned to respect Asmongold, as much i disagree with his bias. Its just his paradigm to say that guild groups or premade grouping is a prerequisite to play a MMO.

There is no O for organized in MMORPG. It even could be about just sharing a living world, and having a chat, while grouping up could be limited to matchmaking only.

If i may give you a tip: Dont consume videos on youtube. Reflect them. Question them. See them from different points of view. The big problem about all those video consumers is that they come to forums just to repeat the demands of the video authors.

Thats the reason there are so many "remove LFR" threads.. because youtube streamers like Preach or Asmongold told them LFR sucks and is bad for the game.

Noone needs to be "forced" to become social. Thats not what a game should be about. A game should be about to give gameplay to those who play it. And if we take a look onto those who play MMORPGs, you will discover that more than half of its players are solo- and matchmade players.

[Gilgameshh]

There is no O for organized in MMORPG. It even could be about just sharing a living world, and having a chat, while grouping up could be limited to matchmaking only.

...

Thats the reason there are so many "remove LFR" threads.. because youtube streamers like Preach or Asmongold told them LFR sucks and is bad for the game.

You're right, there's no O for organized groups, but it's just understood because that's how the game was designed for the first several years. That's when it became successful. Do you think it's coincidence that the decline of organized groups coincides with the decline of WoW's player base? I'm not saying it's even close to the only reason, but I'm certain it contributed to it because I'm one of the people who has quit due to designs changes like that.

As for your assumption that the threads only exist because of people like Asmongold, that's not true at all. I've advocated for the removal of LFR (as well as other topics they discuss) long before I knew Asmongold or Preach even existed. People just don't like the way the game is designed today, and while I respect those who do enjoy it, it's extremely disappointing for those of us who long for designs similar to what we used to have.

[Icaras]

I disagree. (that "Socializing, server communities, friendships" are the three main things for an MMORPG)

1) The RPG of the MMORPG. Having a characters that I can power up via both leveling up and via the acquisition of better gear, while also having a storyline to follow, even better if it's a hero journey where I get acknowledged by the game the further in I go.

2) The MMO of the MMORPG. Note how there's no "F" in there for forced? I like that the games are both massive and multiplayer online, because it gives a world to explore (But structure via dungeons, quests and zones) but also has other players. Players that I CAN interact with but don't HAVE TO interact with. It's cool to see somebody running around and think "
Wow that's actually a real person doing that quest!". It's not so cool to sit in a zone and think "Ugh...i have to find somebody to play, but I only have an hour.....".

3_ The G of MMORPG. For Game, as in the GAME itself. It has to be a good game, or else why even play it? IMHO, if social interaction and friends are your main aim...aren't you better off just using facebook or finding a themed forum, hitting upa dating website/app, or using IRC...or even doing the real life thing?

[Deleted]

You're right, there's no O for organized groups, but it's just understood because that's how the game was designed for the first several years. That's when it became successful. Do you think it's coincidence that the decline of organized groups coincides with the decline of WoW's player base?

That argument has been debunked over and over. Have you ever heard something about product lifecylces? WoW is in its decline of the lifecycle, while there is no proof that a design decision actually negatively influenced the decline. As long you are not able to prove a causal link between a change you dislike and the sub development, every idea that "casualization" negative influenced the subs are just speculation.

People just don't like the way the game is designed today, and while I respect those who do enjoy it, it's extremely disappointing for those of us who long for designs similar to what we used to have.

Have you thought about the consquence of removing LFR yet? In special, as blizzard needs LFR as a justification to create raid content nowadays?

If blizzard removes LFR, they also had no incentive anymore to create large raids anymore. At the end, raids would become niche gameplay for a few, with the difference that nowadays raids are that expensive to design that raiders would get one raid per expac at the end, which wont even tell any major lore anymore. Raids are only a very large part of the design process nowadays because there is LFR which shows that content to millions of players. And if i talk about millions, i mean 70-80% of all players of WoW, as shown in the last raid participation statistics available from the WoW armory data. LFR is the most successfull implementation of raids up to now.

If you remove LFR, you would remove blizzards justification for raid content in total. Mythic raids are being paid by those who play LFR.