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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Melsiren View Post
    And the spinning begins.

    Ignore cannon all you want, in the end of the day you're wrong because Blizzard said you're wrong.
    That quote is from 2012. She literally has Mind Control in Heroes of the Storm, which is more recent.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Pajamasalads View Post
    That quote is from 2012. She literally has Mind Control in Heroes of the Storm, which is more recent.
    Oh and before anyone says Heroes of the Storm isn't Canon, I just have to say "Lunara." Who's being Added to Legion from heroes of the storm.
    I'm glad to have multiple personalities, if i didn't i would be talking to myself, and that's just insane.

  3. #103
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pajamasalads View Post
    That quote is from 2012. She literally has Mind Control in Heroes of the Storm, which is more recent.
    Top fucking kek, it doesn't mean she mind controls her people, it means she can mind control, every banshee can however. That logic is literally, Genn has a gun in heros of the storm, so he shoots his people.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Top fucking kek, it doesn't mean she mind controls her people, it means she can mind control, every banshee can however. That logic is literally, Genn has a gun in heros of the storm, so he shoots his people.
    And Mind Controlling people is bad... that's kind of the point I've been making. She uses Mind Control or the Threat of death all the time, which makes her evil.
    I'm glad to have multiple personalities, if i didn't i would be talking to myself, and that's just insane.

  5. #105
    Mechagnome
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    If she were a guy, 'he' would have died in WotLK or become an instance boss in Cata.

  6. #106
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borigrad View Post
    And Mind Controlling people is bad... that's kind of the point I've been making. She uses Mind Control or the Threat of death all the time, which makes her evil.
    The last time she mind controlled someone was back in warcraft three and it was to breal garthios away from dreadlord control. If threat of death makes you evil than every fucking character in the game is evil and your argument goes beyond the levels of stupid.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The reason people hate sylvanas is because she has mastered hurting alliance feelings all for the goal of fueling her world engine with their tears
    Last edited by Friendlyimmolation; 2016-05-09 at 12:27 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    The last time she mind controlled someone was back in warcraft three and it was to breal garthios away from dreadlord control. If threat of death makes you evil than every fucking character in the game is evil and your argument goes beyond the levels of stupid.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The reason people hate sylvanas is because she has mastered hurting alliance feelings all for the goal of fueling her world engine with their tears
    Yeah now she just tortures people and experiments on them. So much better, i'd rather she Mind Controlled them.
    I'm glad to have multiple personalities, if i didn't i would be talking to myself, and that's just insane.

  8. #108
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borigrad View Post
    Yeah now she just tortures people and experiments on them. So much better, i'd rather she Mind Controlled them.
    Well then it's a damn shame she's in a more positive horde light than ever, maybe If you write enough letters the forsaken will feel bad?
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Well then it's a damn shame she's in a more positive horde light than ever, maybe If you write enough letters the forsaken will feel bad?
    According to who, a lot of people dislike Sylvanas and a lot of people are upset she's Warchief, a lot of horde players. Sylvanas sucks. She's in the spotlight, doesn't make it positive, I play horde, I'd kill her myself if given the chance.
    I'm glad to have multiple personalities, if i didn't i would be talking to myself, and that's just insane.

  10. #110
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borigrad View Post
    According to who, a lot of people dislike Sylvanas and a lot of people are upset she's Warchief, a lot of horde players. Sylvanas sucks. She's in the spotlight, doesn't make it positive, I play horde, I'd kill her myself if given the chance.
    You obviously havent played beta/alpha at all. And i'm sure it would be amusing for nathanos/sylvanas to kill your character
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    You obviously havent played beta/alpha at all. And i'm sure it would be amusing for nathanos/sylvanas to kill your character
    I already know Sylvanas will never die cause of Plot Armor as thick Kaldor Draigo's. But you are correct, I haven't played in the Alpha, I am also trying to avoid spoilers. Regardless a brief reprise in personality, doesn't really change years of evil and cruelty.
    I'm glad to have multiple personalities, if i didn't i would be talking to myself, and that's just insane.

  12. #112
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borigrad View Post
    I already know Sylvanas will never die cause of Plot Armor as thick Kaldor Draigo's. But you are correct, I haven't played in the Alpha, I am also trying to avoid spoilers. Regardless a brief reprise in personality, doesn't really change years of evil and cruelty.
    Hrm, I won't spoil anything than.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Hrm, I won't spoil anything than.
    Unfortunately 4 months is a long time to wait.
    I'm glad to have multiple personalities, if i didn't i would be talking to myself, and that's just insane.

  14. #114
    I like how everyone has continued to bring up the "Edge of Night" but continued to forget the entire plot of the short story. The beginning of the story details how Sylvanas feels about her people, describing them as, "arrows in her quiver," and while the end of the story definitely does describe her understanding that there is either the inevitable void of WoW-Hell awaiting her or the decrepit leadership of the Forsaken and thus her, "bulwark against the inevitable," there's a very key point to the plot being overlooked. It's called cherry-picking when you quote something like that. For those of you who don't want to go bother to dig up the entire quote, here:



    A quote from "Edge of Night" concerning her life as the Ranger-General of Quel'thalas:
    "They merely need to delay them as we fortify the Sunwell's defense," she answered, her tone measured.

    "They will die!"

    "They are arrows in the quiver," Sylvanas said. "They must be spent if we are to win this.""



    "The army of undead that surrounded and protected the Dark Lady was still hers, body and soul. But they were no longer arrows in her quiver, not anymore. They were a bulwark against the infinite. They were to be used wisely, and no fool orc would squander them while she still walked the world of the living."

    The entire point of "Edge of Night" was detailing the transition for Sylvanas from the single-minded goal of seeking Arthas' death in direct response to the atrocities committed on her soul to the tell-tale leader of the Forsaken that is 100% dedicated to the cause of actually preserving what they have and strengthening their foothold. That's the plot of the short story.


    Furthermore, if you actually read the short story, it details how Garrosh Hellscream (while Sylvanas is still in Icecrown Citadel about to commit suicide) begins the attack on Gilneas. He is sending the Forsaken to their deaths in troves, proclaiming that they will build a bridge with their corpses if need be.

    "Of course I see!" Garrosh answered. "The door is wedged open; now it must be kicked down. This is what your kind is good for." Now the warchief looked directly at the master apothecary, his cool eyes fixated on the pale yellow light that filled the latter's eye sockets. "You're already corpses, nearly impossible to kill. You flood the chokepoint, you open the way for the rest of the Horde to come through, fresh and eager. Rushing over a bridge of broken bodies if we have to. This is how fortifications are breached. How wars are won."



    Garrosh Hellscream ordered the attack on Gilneas, it was not within Sylvanas' right as a member of the Horde to deny him the conquest that he sought. Simple as that. It is the exact same as when Garrosh ordered Lor'themar Theron to continue sending more Blood Elves to Pandaria for archaeological searches for the Divine Bell, even though they were essentially being served up as corpses. However, unlike the Forsaken, the Blood Elves had another card to play and were basically seeing their way out of the Horde because of that in direct response. In direct response to her people being served up as meat-shields and building a body-bridge, Sylvanas did the one thing that was best suited to victory at the lowest possible cost: using her Plague.

    As well, for the most part of the Silverpine Quests and even the Hillsbrad quests, there is one particular detail that people seem to forget from the Agony Abounds quest text:

    "You have no doubt heard about the incident that transpired at the Wrath Gate in Northrend, yes? Due to those unfortunate events we are strictly forbidden from using the strain of life-shattering blight that we finally perfected. Now we have rules and regulations and other nonsense!

    They've given us some neutered version of the perfected blight and expect us to weaponize it.

    If I'm to get this crap functional I'll need several bags full of ferocious doomweed. You'll find it all over Silverpine."



    All in all, Sylvanas Windrunner is not a Lawful Good character. She is not the knight in shining armor that people tend to associate with great fantasy leaders and what have you. She is not the type of character to allow someone else to draw the lines of her sandbox for her. She gets her hands dirty. She doesn't play nice. She basically does what she thinks is best for the overall success of [the mission].

    Sylvanas has changed a great deal from Warcraft 3 and she has definitely done some things that are not so good and some things that are just fine. She has been betrayed [Putress] just the same as other factions have been betrayed by Legion operatives, Twilight Cultists, and what have you. However, to say that the character is an innately evil or outright chaotic character is off-base and against the source material.

    There's no reason to like Sylvanas if you don't want to like her. However, just because you don't like her, doesn't suddenly mean that the source material and the lore support a reason for everyone to dislike her.

    Edit: In case it was overlooked in the quest text of Agony Abounds, they were GIVEN a "neutered version of the perfected blight and EXPECTED to weaponize it." The problem of using the blight inherently stems from Sylvanas refusing to continue down the path of fighting with one hand tied behind her back. The Horde was allowing the use of the blight under their own terms, so long as the Forsaken played by the outlines. It's not a moral issue for the Horde, it was more of a control issue due to the way that it went out of control within the hands of Putress. Keep in mind that Garrosh did not even tell Sylvanas that he was against her bringing more Forsaken into the world, merely disgusted by the fact and curious to know what separated her from her age-old hatred.
    Last edited by Rhymor; 2016-05-09 at 01:33 AM.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borigrad View Post
    "they are given the same ultimatum that other Forsaken are offered: join the Dark Lady or return to the grave."

    Except join the Forsaken, after forcing them to Kill their friends. Yeah it's not Mind Control, it's worse, it's Guilt and manipulation.
    The Forsaken aren't nice people and this ain't news, doesn't change the fact that "Mind Control" is an inappropriate term. On the end of the day, those guys get simply raised to undeath and attack whatever they attack by themselves. The moment they begin to think straight, they're free to choose what to do with their undeath or simply go back to the grave and say goodbye to the world of the living once and for all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  16. #116
    Legendary! Dellis0991's Avatar
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    I don't like her for the reason she is playing around with powers that could turn her into a threat for all life on Azeroth and add to the already growing list of problems we face.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Dankrave View Post
    What's the point of this argument. There will always be t̶h̶e̶ ̶L̶i̶c̶h̶ ̶K̶i̶n̶g̶ Sylvannas fanboys.
    But if you want relatively objective reasons:
    She plays her own game.
    She cannot be trusted.
    She considers Horde as a tool, not as a family.

    Plus, many dislike her cuz she is sort of fanservice for lonely nolifers.
    Pretty much hit the nail on the head. I can't stand the character or her fandom.
    With Lich Queen as Warcheif-I'll never touch my horde toons in Legion (or possibly beyond if she stays in control).

  18. #118
    Holy shit there were actually people here arguing against the Sylvanas fanboys?

    Goddamn that's a refreshing change.

    Although a word to the wise, they will never give even an inch. They are so sure in their hilariously biased interpretation of the facts that everybody is just out to smear their waifu.

  19. #119
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    Holy shit there were actually people here arguing against the Sylvanas fanboys?

    Goddamn that's a refreshing change.

    Although a word to the wise, they will never give even an inch. They are so sure in their hilariously biased interpretation of the facts that everybody is just out to smear their waifu.
    Where have you been? They always argue? Bring up shit that is relevant or isn't claims of mind control? That's a different story. Inb4 circlejerk.
    Last edited by Friendlyimmolation; 2016-05-09 at 02:38 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Where have you been? They always argue? Bring up shit that is relevant or isn't claims of mind control? That's a different story. Inb4 circlejerk.
    She's a shitty commander and has lost every major conflict she's ever commanded. No ones else refuted the fact she tortures and experiments on people, also how is Mind Control irrelevant, she mind controls people, which is what i've always said, you people twisted it into she mind controls the Forsaken, cause you couldn't actually win on that argument.

    The Sylvanas' defenders focused heavily on the mind control cause it's the only thing you can even somewhat refute and still can't refute the fact she does it sometimes. What about the fact she tortures people, her own allies (KOltira.) Experiments on people, uses the plague as a weapon of war, wanted to murder her own sister and revive her, against her will.

    As far as losing every major conflict, Broken Shore (we know she loses, that isn't really a spoiler.) Killing Arthas, she gloated instead of getting the job done allowing Kel'thuzad to save him. She manages to sack Lordaeran with the help of much more experienced commanders (and mind control.) In Cata she's doing so bad attacking Gilneas she has to resort to the plague (Chemical Warfare, even Garrosh considered this Cruel.) She also dies (but plot armor.) In MoP she didn't lead any conflicts deferring to the Regent Lord Lor'themar who has proven far more successful. So she succeeded at one Sacking of a ruined city, torn to shreds already by Arthas, with the help of a Human Commander, Nathrezim and Mind Control. She's even so bad at organizing a resistance, she told Arthas how to break down the gates guarding Silvermoon.
    Last edited by Borigrad; 2016-05-09 at 02:57 AM.
    I'm glad to have multiple personalities, if i didn't i would be talking to myself, and that's just insane.

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