[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[rogueMatthias]

The "R + L= J" connection is set up so strongly now that I'm just REALLY hoping they don't try and pull a twist by making it something else all together. It's going to end up really forced.

Sometimes when writers keep adding twists for the sake of having twists, the whole thing can become an embarrassing mess... I'm looking at YOU Lost.

[Deleted]

Well, I'm what you may call an "uninitiated" who hasn't read the books. So I have no idea what that tower of joy thing is, nor why is it so important.

Can someone give me a summarization of it? And also I've been seeing that "L+R=J" stuff before, what does it mean? what's that?

L stands for Lyanna Stark (Ned's sister)
R stands for Rhaegar Targaryen (The Mad king's son, Dany and Viscerys's older brother)
J stands for Jon.

The theory is that Jon is the Son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. There are several clues in the books, small and big ones that helped the Theory shape up.
- Ned never said "you are my son" to Jon, but "you are my blood"
- Ned holds honor above all, and as stated by numerous people, it's not his style to go to war (because his brother and father died to the Madking, and his sister was kidnapped) based on honorous facts, and then fuck a tavern girl and bring back a kid.
- At a tournament R gave flowers to L instead of his wife (Ellia Martell) which would be a clue to him liking her.
- R was married so he couldn't just ask L to Marry him or whatnot, so the basic opinion is that he "kidnapped" her instead.
- The Tower of Joy is the place where Ned found his dying sister. It was protected by 3 Kinsguard (2 in the show), and Arthur Dayne was part of them (Best swordsman that ever lived). Instead of Helping R at the battle of the Trident, they were protecting that tower. Which shows that someone of the utmost importance must be within those walls: Lyanna.
- When he found his sister she was in a "pool of blood" and she mad him promise something.

Now my memory is a bit fucked up so I don't remember if there is a flashback of him actually coming out with a baby. Anyhow if it's the case, the theory is that the baby is Jon, and Ned promised to raise him like his own. The Martell/Targs kid were killed by the Lannisters so it was obvious that Ned had to hide Jon's true heritage, thus taking the blame for the kid and destroying his honor.

[Deleted]

This was a really good episode. I don´t know what happened the last few weeks, but the dialog writing was horrible. This week was much better.

The ToJ fight was well done. The Wall stuff is going as expected, I think now we see Jon use the wildlings to take the north. Arya was interesting, and good foreshadowing about Jon´s true parents.

The King´s Landing stuff still does not make sense to me. So you have the Lannisters and Tyrell´s, two of the strongest houses... and together or apart they are powerless against a militant that rose up from nowhere in a only a couple years? It just does not pass the test of believability, in both situations, either the Lannisters or the Tyrells would would just overrun the place as soon as the queen or Cersi were arrested.

But for people who question Ramsey so easily taking over control.. and how implausible the politics behind it are... the Republicans just nominated Donald Trump for President.

>Ninja knight fighting with dual swords
>Fight well done

[Derah]

L stands for Lyanna Stark (Ned's sister)
R stands for Rhaegar Targaryen (The Mad king's son, Dany and Viscerys's older brother)
J stands for Jon.

The theory is that Jon is the Son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. There are several clues in the books, small and big ones that helped the Theroy shape up.
- Ned never sayd "you are my son" to Jon, but "you are my blood"
- Ned holds honor above all, and as stated by numerous people, it's not his style to go to war (because his brother and father died to the Madking, and his sister was kidnapped) based on honorous facts, and then fuck a tavern girl and bring back a kid.
- At a tournament R gave flowers to L instead of his wife (Ellia Martell) which would be a clue to him liking her.
- R was married so he couldn't just ask L to Marry him or whatnot, so the basic opinion is that he "kidnapped" her instead.
- The Tower of Joy is the place where Ned found his dying sister. It was protected by 3 Kinsguard (2 in the show), and Arthur Dayne was part of them (Best swordsman that ever lived). Instead of Helping R at the battle of the Trident, they were protecting that tower. Which shows that someone of the utmost importance must be within those walls: Lyanna.
- When he found his sister she was in a "pool of blood" and she mad him promise something.

Now my memory is a bit fucked up so I don't remember if there is a flashback of him actually coming out with a baby. Anyhow if it's the case, the theory is that the baby is Jon, and Ned promised to raise him like his own. The Martell/Targs kid were killed by the Lannisters so it was obvious that Ned had to hide Jon's true heritage, thus taking the blame for the kid and destroying his honor.

Thanks. This was really helpful.

Now, the name "tower of joy" is it canon? or just a fan nickname? If its just a nickname, why would they call it "of joy"? Doesn't seem like much enjoyment took place there from the looks of things.

[Deleted]

Thanks. This was really helpful.

Now, the name "tower of joy" is it canon? or just a fan nickname? If its just a nickname, why would they call it "of joy"? Doesn't seem like much enjoyment took place there from the looks of things.

It's only mentionned as Tower of Joy once or twice if I recall correctly. It's canon, it was nicknamed like that by Rhaegar, probably because he was happy with Lyanna there, if it was indeed consensual (which is part of the theory)

[Deleted]

Fantastic episode !

I guess you could say that Jon...
( •_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
Killed the boy.
(⌐■_■)

[Draenox]

Ever since I read the first book I wanted to see that fight at the Tower of Joy, which Ned recalls several times. "Three against seven..." Awesome episode.

EDIT: Fixed broken memory

[Derah]

Fantastic episode !

I guess you could say that Jon...
( •_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
Killed the boy.
(⌐■_■)

What you did there, I saw it.

[dwightyo39]

Ever since I read the first book I wanted to see that fight at the Tower of Joy, which Ned recalls several times. "Two against seven..." Awesome episode

Haven't seen the episode yet, but from this forum it is 6v2. In the book it's 7v3.

[Deleted]

Ever since I read the first book I wanted to see that fight at the Tower of Joy, which Ned recalls several times. "Two against seven..." Awesome episode

You should re-read the books. It's 7 against 3. (Whent, Hightower and Dayne) against Ned, Reed and 5 Bannermen.

I understand why they gave Dayne two swords instead of a two handed one in the show. The fight was nicely executed, it made him look really insanely strong, and more appealing than a two handed sword fight.

[Draenox]

You should re-read the books. It's 7 against 3. (Whent, Hightower and Dayne) against Ned, Reed and 5 Bannermen.

I understand why they gave Dayne two swords instead of a two handed one in the show. The fight was nicely executed, it made him look really insanely strong, and more appealing than a two handed sword fight.

Ah my bad, it's been a while. Either way they really managed to portray him as I imagined, same feeling now as when I read about him - why is this guy dead, he would have been so cool to have in the current story :/

[Deleted]

Ah my bad, it's been a while. Either way they really managed to portray him as I imagined, same feeling now as when I read about him - why is this guy dead, he would have been so cool to have in the current story :/

The difference between show and books won't help our memories now!!
Well a part from his weapon, the overwhleming sense of power was nicely portrayed. He really felt like an undefeatable beast.

It's GOT, everyone dies, even the cool ones!

[Deleted]

I thought the fight was a quite anemic, nothing like the epic confrontation I envisioned from the books. Apparently if you just spin two swords in your hands you are invulnerable against six enemies.

[Dasffion]

I think you under estimate non book readers. The oath or the rules of the black are always repeated one way or the other in episodes here and there.
Let's not forget the badass way Gren died, saying the Oath fighting a Giant, people haven't forgotten that, so I doubt they forgot that Jon has served until his death and is now free.

For the rest of your quote, some dialogues have become dull, because they are not from G.Martin, but D&D. That is the risk they took by going off-book.

I really hope Umber is playing Manderly's game, way more interesting than a simple "I don't like wildlings so I'll give you a Stark to kill even tho my father fought side by side with one". We will soon know if D&D are capable of actually doing Game of thrones, or a simply playing Battle of Thrones.

Even if they hadn't repeated the oaths more than once I think most people would realize that standard oaths are until death. My wife got it and she has never read the books.

[Mhyroth]

Is it just me or does everything become so predictable a-la television/popcorn movie-style ? It seems since they abandoned the written word and went on with their interpretation and evolvement of the story the dialogue is not as intriguing or depthful anymore as the sentences/parts they used from the books.
It's really hard to explain for me the "feeling" I get, but it seems to me they're setting up a lot of different things (which are really clear even to the viewer) and just trying to "finish the story" in an easy to understand way.
With all due respect for all the hard work they've done, but things don't "feel" the same as for example S1-2.
As an example the Red Wedding. I hadn't read the books at that point and was blown away because it was so unexpected and you couldn't see it coming from a mile away. Compare that to Ramsey murdering Roose (the entire scene was way to obvious). Jon's resurrection in how the camera changed, how they showed Ghost look at the table etc, it was way to obvious (to me)...
I personally think they want to shorten the entire story this much that only the essential parts remain, but this gives as an effect that certain "set ups" and parts which give depth to the story get lost.
I still watch every sunday/monday and enjoy the show, but the "vibe" of WTF/OMG is not there for me, as opposed to the earlier seasons. Even after watching the previous seasons again I still get that "vibe" after certain scene's which doesn't happen to me after watching this season over.
I'm not here to blame or to bash anything they've done, but this is just a personal reflection of my "feeling" ever since they took that road.
My apologies since English is not my native language if the context/text is not clear, quite hard to explain a "feeling" in a language which isn't yours.

[Graeham]

I wasn't too impressed with Olly's death. It felt very much like blatant pandering to the crowd that fawns over Jon Snow without any regard for the moral complexities that are supposed to exist in the setting. Olly was very much a victim hardened by war. He saw his parents killed and eaten by the same people Jon chose to embrace. Yes, Jon did it out of necessity but Olly is just a kid. They didn't even have Jon execute him the 'Stark way' and considering that he left the Night's Watch immediately after it simply came across as petty vengeance. Here's hoping he dies for real at some point because I really, really don't want him to be placed on the Iron Throne at the end of the show.

[Deleted]

Why were there only two knights outside the ToJ? Thought there were three against Ned's merry men.

Was a bit goofy in an Anakin Episode II vs Count Dooko dual wield way but at least the choreography didn't feel like Xena: Warrior Princess.

[pateuvasiliu]

He'll die killing the Great Other. Tyrion will rule. Dany will rule in Essos.

- - - Updated - - -

Jon and Dany are gonna end up together, just wait.



Dany is the Fire and Jon is the Ice.

Jon is both fire and ice.

[Dasffion]

but at least the choreography didn't feel like Xena: Warrior Princess.

Xena spun her sword a lot...

[Deleted]

Oh look, Jon remembered he had balls. Good thing it's fucking cold up at the Wall, no time for fungus and rot to set in!