1. #12661
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    Look everyone knows that dual wielding is stupid and ridiculous. But, it looks badass, its a staple trope of visual media.

    The show has made no remarks about Dawn so far, and short of stopping the scene altogether to have a conversation about how cool his sword is, the people in the show wouldn't get it anyway, so they make him look badass another way, by dual wielding.

    Don't read too much into it guys, we know the TOJ scene wouldn't be anything like what we hoped it would be.
    That is a good explanation (contrary to the others). The important part is not that Dayne isn't wielding Dawn, or even that one KG is missing. The important part is that Dayne wiped the floor with Ned's allies. He still overpowered them completly. Dawn, Dual wielding, or toothpick it doesn't matter.

    As you stated, book readers should be prepared to be disappointed. In books fight are never the same as TV ones, because it isn't the same transcript material. What works in books doesn't always work on TV and vice versa.

  2. #12662
    New Kid Zaelsino's Avatar
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    I feel like Rickon is doomed. They're going to play up either Jon or Sansa (probably Sansa) as House Stark's figurehead and lawful inheritor, this kid we haven't seen in five seasons is probably only back to die before the big battle (remember the two burning crosses?) and make the fight more personal.

  3. #12663
    Pit Lord Ghâzh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArgonaZe View Post
    As you stated, book readers should be prepared to be disappointed. In books fight are never the same as TV ones, because it isn't the same transcript material. What works in books doesn't always work on TV and vice versa.
    It's an interesting topic that would warrant it's own thread to be honest. Are hollywood cliche's necessary or do they do it just because they've got used to it or they don't know better?

    I think the scene would have worked just as well with Dayne using single longsword (or even greatsword). You could've had him do basically the same swinging style fight with lots of brandishing and moving around, just with single sword instead of two of them. It would have looked just as cool to a casual viewer but would've also pleased the sword fight purists.

  4. #12664
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelsino View Post
    I feel like Rickon is doomed. They're going to play up either Jon or Sansa (probably Sansa) as House Stark's figurehead and lawful inheritor, this kid we haven't seen in five seasons is probably only back to die before the big battle (remember the two burning crosses?) and make the fight more personal.
    I'd agree that Rickon is going to die, but I think it will be as a casualty of a battle and not executed by Ramsey. I think the Umbers are playing Ramsey, and I doubt that head was Shaggydog. The Umbers are basically fanatical to the Starks, and Littlejon goes so far as to say so and to not bend the knee or swear loyalty to Ramsey. He drops a head on the table that should be way too small to be Shaggydog. Rob's wolf was 2 years younger and it's head completely fit over Rob's head.
    But I think by the end Rickon will die no matter how it plays out. Even if the dupe goes perfectly and Ramsey and the Karstarks end up dead, Rickon will end up dying.

  5. #12665
    I'd like to take this moment to remind everybody crying about the pro's and con's of dual-wielding that it's a fantasy show. That's right, folks. Dragons and zombies and tits and magic and shit. And dual-wielding.

  6. #12666
    Well I loved the episode and thought the Tower of Joy scene was great! I did mention to someone as I watched it that I was pretty sure Dayne used a greatsword but its not a big deal. Some of you guys are just so picky.


    Even after reading spoilers I was not expecting Shaggydog to be dead .
    Last edited by eschatological; 2016-05-09 at 04:17 PM.

  7. #12667
    Titan Grimbold21's Avatar
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    Oh look, it's Shaggydog's head. Guess that rules out the GNC.

    Yeaaa, i bet Rickon/Osha are the bodies we see flayed/burning on the battlefield in the season 6 trailer.

  8. #12668
    Quote Originally Posted by Derah View Post
    Well, I'm what you may call an "uninitiated" who hasn't read the books. So I have no idea what that tower of joy thing is, nor why is it so important.

    Can someone give me a summarization of it? And also I've been seeing that "L+R=J" stuff before, what does it mean? what's that?
    Someone probably already answered this. but here it is in short anyways.

    Fat king in season 1, king Robert Baratheon, became kind after winning the war against the targaryens,
    He basically started that war, not to become king, but because he was in love with, and engaged to, Eddard (Ned) Starks' Sister, Lyanna
    And Raegar (spelling) Targaryen had kidnapped her. and taken her to his Tower of Joy (or w/e)

    While Robert was about fighting the war he sent Eddard, the Reeds kids father, and 3 other guys (more in the books) to go get her back.
    they fought a group from the kingsguard, all but 2 from eddards company died.
    and when he rushed into the room where lyanna was, he found her near dead in a pool of blood.


    The Fan-theory here, is that Lyanna actually loved Raeghar, and that they ran away together, and, that they had a child togheter, that she had just given birth to when Eddard came to "rescue" her. The kid is John.
    I've no idea what to write here.

  9. #12669
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gib Lover View Post
    Not strong enough, tall enough. It's a height issue not a strength issue. Also, the poster I was responding to himself called it a disadvantageous fighting style.
    So back to my point, if the Kingsguard had an assignment of such importance that it was more important than being with the king or prince, he should have been taking it more seriously.
    You can suspend disbelief and not apply real world logic only to an extent, like dragons, magic, etc. It's hard to suspend disbelief in a scenario that could happen in the real world like a swordfight.

    Edit: the "like an adult" bit was a joke. Daniel Tosh has a joke about potheads, "Grow up and do coke like an adult."
    If you are tall enough to have one sword in the right hand, why would you need to be taller to grab another one in your left hand?
    Serious question I know nothing in sword fights. I thought strenght would be necessary more than height (or at least a good balance of both)

    You are basing your facts on a assomption. Nowhere does the show imply that Dayne wasn't fighting seriously, or even using a subpar fighting style. Yes I know you are answering to someone that said he might be doing that. But both of them are assomptions not facts.

    There is a zombie, Dragons, a 100 year old woman that looks like a hot babe, water that can give or take back eyesight, people that change faces no ones bats an eye. But the second someone dual wields two longswords it's the end of the world.

    "It's hard to suspend disbelief in a scenario that could happen in the real world like a swordfight". Well GOT is not in the real world, it doesn't even pretend to be in the real world. It's not because we have similarities that it means it could happen in our world.
    It's not because they fight with the same weapons as us that they obey to the same "rules" as us. We are in a fantasy world.

    You have to turn off the part of your brain that says "It looks like it could happen here therefore it should obey our laws" because you'll have a bad time watching a fantasy show (or even sci-fi)

    I understand that it can piss of sword fighting purists and all that, but you are forgetting that the show is made for entertainement not reality. They are therefore not looking for accuracy but visual class.
    And as a non fighting purist, I already stated previously that I like the sword fight. Dayne was epic and only had a few minutes of screentime. And yes I am a book reader disappointed that he wasn't just like in the books, but I got used to that with time. The show is different (and the books will have the sword fights you look for)
    Last edited by mmoce2f72405d7; 2016-05-09 at 03:23 PM.

  10. #12670
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghâzh View Post
    It's an interesting topic that would warrant it's own thread to be honest. Are hollywood cliche's necessary or do they do it just because they've got used to it or they don't know better?

    I think the scene would have worked just as well with Dayne using single longsword (or even greatsword). You could've had him do basically the same swinging style fight with lots of brandishing and moving around, just with single sword instead of two of them. It would have looked just as cool to a casual viewer but would've also pleased the sword fight purists.
    I've no doubt it would have looked pleasing, but it doesn't have the "wow factor" of wielding 2 swords, I mean who else have we seen in GoT who wields 2 swords? Daario is the only one I can think of off the top of my head, (though I can't remember whether its more of a sword and dagger combo) and he's a badass as well. It's something that makes him distinct, instead of being "generic bad guy #362".

    I said in my first post that Dawn hadn't really been mentioned, but neither has Arthur Dayne to think about it. If you said to a show watcher, "holy shit Arthur Dayne is in this episode", they would have no clue who you are talking about, so they need something to set him apart, to make him look cooler than you average bad guy knight in armour, and dual wielding does that, especially in a show like GoT which generally has sword fighting realism nailed down.

    and unfortunately "sword fighting purists" aren't generally a demographic that these TV shows aim at, because they are a very niche group.

  11. #12671
    Titan Grimbold21's Avatar
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    Anyway, ep3 is done.



    Onwards!

    Guess that (almost) confirms the season spoilers that were posted here. Littlefinger will bring the Vale's armies down on the Boltons.

  12. #12672
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absintheminded View Post
    I'd like to take this moment to remind everybody crying about the pro's and con's of dual-wielding that it's a fantasy show. That's right, folks. Dragons and zombies and tits and magic and shit. And dual-wielding.
    It's a fantasy show with a set rules that so far haven't explain why swords and sword fighting would suddenly work unrealistically.

    There's no better way of breaking immersion in a fantasy -anything- than starting to explain things with the phrase "because magic".

  13. #12673
    Quote Originally Posted by Absintheminded View Post
    I'd like to take this moment to remind everybody crying about the pro's and con's of dual-wielding that it's a fantasy show. That's right, folks. Dragons and zombies and tits and magic and shit. And dual-wielding.
    This idiotic argument is posted way too often in fantasy forums.

    Just because the series has magic doesn't mean the laws of physics suddenly stop working. Clegane's going to be stronger than Tyrion because he's fucking huge and size means strength. It's not anime. Yes, magic exists. Doesn't mean realism is suddenly thrown out of the window, else we'd see Daenerys doing a huracarana on Khal Whatshisface.

  14. #12674
    It felt so short. Not too satisfied with this episode.

  15. #12675
    Quote Originally Posted by ArgonaZe View Post
    If you are tall enough to have one sword in the right hand, why would you need to be taller to grab another one in your left hand?
    Serious question I know nothing in sword fights. I thought strenght would be necessary more than height (or at least a good balance of both)

    You are basing your facts on a assomption. Nowhere does the show imply that Dayne wasn't fighting seriously, or even using a subpar fighting style. Yes I know you are answering to someone that said he might be doing that. But both of them are assomptions not facts.

    There is a zombie, Dragons, a 100 year old woman that looks like a hot babe, water that can give or take back eyesight, people that change faces no ones bats an eye. But the second someone dual wields two longswords it's the end of the world.

    "It's hard to suspend disbelief in a scenario that could happen in the real world like a swordfight". Well GOT is not in the real world, it doesn't even pretend to be in the real world. It's not because we have similarities that it means it could happen in our world.
    It's not because they fight with the same weapons as us that they obey to the same "rules" as us. We are in a fantasy world.

    You have to turn off the part of your brain that says "It looks like it could happen here therefore it should obey our laws" because you'll have a bad time watching a fantasy show (or even sci-fi)

    I understand that it can piss of sword fighting purists and all that, but you are forgetting that the show is made for entertainement not reality. They are therefore not looking for accuracy but visual class.
    And as a non fighting purist, I already stated previously that I like the sword fight. Dayne was epic and only had a few minutes of screentime. And yes I am a book reader disappointed that he wasn't just like in the books, but I got used to that with time. The show is different (and the books will have the sword fights you look for)
    You have points that I agree with and points I disagree with. I think at this point it's time to agree to disagree. I feel the scene was very lackluster and the duel wielding did nothing to help it, you feel the opposite. No reason to go back and forth on it farther.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    It felt so short. Not too satisfied with this episode.
    It did seem to fly by. I thought there was still a ton of time left and I checked the remaining time and it was at 5min.

  16. #12676
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold21 View Post
    Oh look, it's Shaggydog's head. Guess that rules out the GNC.

    Yeaaa, i bet Rickon/Osha are the bodies we see flayed/burning on the battlefield in the season 6 trailer.
    That is a safe bet yes. Ramsay killing them to piss off Jon that is marching on Winterfell.
    But that would be shit for one reason. That means that after destroying the Dorne plot, D&D have decided to destroy the Manderly/Umber plot aswell...

    Wait and See but that shit scares me. Season 7 might just be stupid spank and tank with no intelligent plots.

  17. #12677
    Pit Lord Ghâzh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    I've no doubt it would have looked pleasing, but it doesn't have the "wow factor" of wielding 2 swords, I mean who else have we seen in GoT who wields 2 swords? Daario is the only one I can think of off the top of my head, (though I can't remember whether its more of a sword and dagger combo) and he's a badass as well. It's something that makes him distinct, instead of being "generic bad guy #362".
    Well I have to disagree with you on that one. I think it would have looked equally impressive with single sword. Just the fact that the guy fought off 6 guys at once is exceptional. Now if it was done realistically it would have felt even more impressive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    and unfortunately "sword fighting purists" aren't generally a demographic that these TV shows aim at, because they are a very niche group.
    And the reason why we can't have nice things. Pleasing the general public.

  18. #12678
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    Quote Originally Posted by pateuvasiliu View Post
    This idiotic argument is posted way too often in fantasy forums.

    Just because the series has magic doesn't mean the laws of physics suddenly stop working. Clegane's going to be stronger than Tyrion because he's fucking huge and size means strength. It's not anime. Yes, magic exists. Doesn't mean realism is suddenly thrown out of the window, else we'd see Daenerys doing a huracarana on Khal Whatshisface.
    That argument isn't stupid it depends on how it is twisted.
    Of course Gregor would shit on Tyrion, but who says that in their world the average man doesn't lift much more than us? Therefore making Gregor twice as strong as he would be in our world. And therefore the Average man can lift two longswords like daggers.
    Or it can be twisted like this. Who said that their steel is like our steel? What if their weapons are much lighter than ours (For example in Tolkien universe Elfe weapons were light as feathers), thus making it possible to use multiple weapons in an easy way.

    And your Dany example: Let's say the average man in Martin Universe is stronger than the average man in our world. That doesn't mean that the roles are reversed, and that she can roflstomple Khal. Because the Khal will also be stronger.. The only thing that could be modified is the gap of strenght between us and them. Do you see what I mean?

    "Realism" as you stated is based on "our laws". The show isn't realist it's fantasy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghâzh View Post
    And the reason why we can't have nice things. Pleasing the general public.
    Well they bring more money than targeting Niche groups.

  19. #12679
    Anyone else feel like the show is in a slow crawl right now? I feel like I'm not getting enough conflict payoffs anymore each episode. It's starting to feel like DBZ where 3 episodes are just Goku and Vegeta talking shit to each other.

  20. #12680
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    Anyone else feel like the show is in a slow crawl right now? I feel like I'm not getting enough conflict payoffs anymore each episode. It's starting to feel like DBZ where 3 episodes are just Goku and Vegeta talking shit to each other.
    In a way yes, but then you realize there are like 10 concurrent storylines. So every episode, they jump from storyline to storyline and it feels like a crawl, but those individual stories are progressing with some exceptions. For example, the Bolton storyline has progressed extremely fast in my opinion in these 3 episodes. The Arya storyline on the other hand, she was just blind on the streets 90% of her screentime this season and then they crammed a training montage at the last second and now her eyesight is back.

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