1. #24841
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyster View Post
    Basically. I can understand it getting heated from either side. It happens in all arguments ever. This guy just brought stuff to a new level though. I don't even consider this kind of mentality to be for or against this idea, just straight up crazy person stating he would DDoS because his feelings were hurt. WTF dude, this is the internet. Get over it. Stop acting like all wrong doings are only one way. If Blizzard did give us a Legacy server should they be worried about people like him? Interesting thought to consider.
    Well it isn't exactly a 'new level', very early on in this thread we had people telling us to go kill ourselves and so on when they disagreed with the Nost stuff. Thankfully those posters were banned and that stuff stopped fairly quickly. But I'd rather avoid things getting to such pointless levels again and advocating for DDOSing is crossing a line imo.

    I realize that this is a game we are all passionate about in one way or another. While I may not like or agree with Legacy servers I do understand if Blizz wishes to go that route at some point. All I can try to do is present my arguments/opinions of why I am against it. I may egg people on and be quite annoying in my posts but I'm trying not to cross lines to take it personal or wish DDOSing or harm on others.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabever View Post
    On the WoW forums the sentiment is definitely in favor of Legacy Realms. Twitch and twitter seem to be in favor. MMO-champ seems to be 50/50. I have got to say that I think it is almost a guarentee. I have heard some preliminary information on the polls and it seems amazing the % of people willing to pay and sub.
    Always take polls with a grain of salt though. People can always vote that they'd pay to sub but when it comes around to it those might be some of the people that don't even play at all or only pay for a month and leave. I hate using the Runescape example but they had a poll setup for people interested in those types of realms and the amount of votes/positive feedback they got was impressive. However when it came time to collect money and see how many of those people were actually playing it was like 10% of the voted amount of people.

    Sure I do think there is a playerbase willing to pay and sub to the game for the long haul. But is it enough people to make it viable? Is it enough people for Blizzard to compromise the design where they want to keep the game moving forward with new expansions and content? It is easy to fault WoW (and I am one of those people) for having huge content droughts though. There is no good excuse for having a content lull lasting over a year when the goal is to get new content in the hands of people.

    Maybe in Legion if there is another lull it would be a good time to look at Legacy because Blizz just cannot deliver on content, who knows. I think it is a can of worms that Blizzard might want to avoid until they are no longer making new content for the game whenever that might be.

    My opinion is still that I don't think there are enough people that would pay to play the game long term, I feel many would try it and not make it out of the first month just like what happens in many MMOs that have been popping up over the past few years. After the initial rush of people showing up to try it, would it be healthy enough to have been worth the time/investment? I don't see it and I think even if it does well it opens up that can of worms about people wanting other expansions, or bug fixes, or new content and so on.

  2. #24842
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Sabever View Post
    So calling someone a Che (ad hominem) on a twitter account run by someone with the same avatar as you is "arguments". I call it name calling and personal attacks.
    It is not ad hominem if i call someone the "Che Guevara of Legacy realms", as i dont use it as argument to debunk the idea of legacy realms. It was more about Kerns personal role in that topic, which had nothing to do with the topic itself. Completely off any discussion, as Mr. Kern only tends to discuss to people who share his opinions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabever View Post
    I have heard some preliminary information on the polls and it seems amazing the % of people willing to pay and sub.
    You actually mean polls from Mr. Kern for his followers? I dont really think that those polls are usefull, as the people who vote on this polls are Mr. Kerns followers, which advocate the idea of Legacy realms.

    I would like unbiased polls, as like in this forum. Where we just had a poll about Warcraft 4 > legacy > pristine, while Warcraft 4 won up to now. Seems its not that many people on these forums.

  3. #24843
    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    Seasons are the only way to go in Legacy Server. reset them every 5-7 months. Make some achievements to go with it, maybe some transmog.

    Just like Diablo Seasons, it will keep it fresh for those that want to play it, and draw veterans whenever they get bored. I understand the work Blizzard would have to do to impletement something like this, but I think it's worth it.

    It satisfies all desires. Removes wall cap, gives incentive, and levels the playing field every year. Gives rise to many different aspect of the game.
    The concept of seasons for Legacy Servers sounds good, but in feasibility it doesn't work. Gearing up in classic WoW took a very long time. 40 people in each raid with each boss dropping only a few pieces of loot. Factor in leveling and raid ready time, it simply would not be possible to clear through AQ 40, let alone naxx in 7 months. The gear just would not be there for that to happen. If changes were to be made to allow for this to happen, it no longer exists as a legacy server if you're needing to make changes to make seasons work.

    For seasons to work it would need to be a much longer timeline, not saying it's a bad, but with how people want legacy servers to be as close to Classic WoW as it possibly can, I don't see them working in a span of time any shorter than at least a year.

  4. #24844
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gondorian View Post
    The concept of seasons for Legacy Servers sounds good, but in feasibility it doesn't work. Gearing up in classic WoW took a very long time. 40 people in each raid with each boss dropping only a few pieces of loot. Factor in leveling and raid ready time, it simply would not be possible to clear through AQ 40, let alone naxx in 7 months. The gear just would not be there for that to happen. If changes were to be made to allow for this to happen, it no longer exists as a legacy server if you're needing to make changes to make seasons work.

    For seasons to work it would need to be a much longer timeline, not saying it's a bad, but with how people want legacy servers to be as close to Classic WoW as it possibly can, I don't see them working in a span of time any shorter than at least a year.
    The beauty of the thought experiment is that, "what if the classic bosses dropped a proportionally larger number of items dependent on the time frame."

    IE: Standard server, historically traditional drops. Seasonal server, higher drop rate to simulate the reduction in opportunities/weeks that you'd be raiding that specific tier.

    Just a thought, throwing out ideas. More ideas on the table helps with projects like this.
    Once we gathered friends together, drank a ton of Mountain Dew and beer, and role played with paper, pencils, and books.
    Now I log onto MMOs with the same people and we only talk about how hard we PWNed that: Noob, boss, etc.
    I hate modern gaming....

  5. #24845
    Quote Originally Posted by Gavan View Post
    The beauty of the thought experiment is that, "what if the classic bosses dropped a proportionally larger number of items dependent on the time frame."

    IE: Standard server, historically traditional drops. Seasonal server, higher drop rate to simulate the reduction in opportunities/weeks that you'd be raiding that specific tier.

    Just a thought, throwing out ideas. More ideas on the table helps with projects like this.
    Oh yeah, I definitely think that would be a possibility, but the issue is that for the Anti-Legacy people, that it would split the user base so much what's the point? Either way it would be cool, but the novelty would fade a way a little bit with no changes. The thing about Diablo is that there are usually changes each season, or at least every other that change the way people build their characters. It's cool, but it would likely need some ongoing development to be interesting for more than 2 seasons.

    Personally, I'd love the idea of added iterations to legacy servers for stuff like this. Seasonal with small modifications to each season to make it interesting, and the normal server. Definitely a way to liven the game up. Maybe each season could be a different expansion? There are definitely many routes, it's just a matter if it's worth the development costs in blizzard's eyes.

  6. #24846
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gondorian View Post
    Oh yeah, I definitely think that would be a possibility, but the issue is that for the Anti-Legacy people, that it would split the user base so much what's the point? Either way it would be cool, but the novelty would fade a way a little bit with no changes. The thing about Diablo is that there are usually changes each season, or at least every other that change the way people build their characters. It's cool, but it would likely need some ongoing development to be interesting for more than 2 seasons.

    Personally, I'd love the idea of added iterations to legacy servers for stuff like this. Seasonal with small modifications to each season to make it interesting, and the normal server. Definitely a way to liven the game up. Maybe each season could be a different expansion? There are definitely many routes, it's just a matter if it's worth the development costs in blizzard's eyes.
    I stand by my belief that there is no longer a community or customer base to split anymore. There is a strong correlation and slowly growing set of data showing that a larger portion of the pro-legacy crowd is no longer playing on the official live servers and many haven't/won't pre-order(ed) Legion.

    This would be a returning customer base, not a drain from the existing one. One exception being content droughts, which subs would be saved in this case, rather than folks un-subbing til the next expac/patch.
    Once we gathered friends together, drank a ton of Mountain Dew and beer, and role played with paper, pencils, and books.
    Now I log onto MMOs with the same people and we only talk about how hard we PWNed that: Noob, boss, etc.
    I hate modern gaming....

  7. #24847
    Quote Originally Posted by rym
    It is not ad hominem if i call someone the "Che Guevara of Legacy realms", as i dont use it as argument to debunk the idea of legacy realms. It was more about Kerns personal role in that topic, which had nothing to do with the topic itself. Completely off any discussion, as Mr. Kern only tends to discuss to people who share his opinions.
    Che is a mass murderer. It is an ad hominem attack. Go look up the definition if you don't understand it.

    Quote Originally Posted by rym
    You actually mean polls from Mr. Kern for his followers? I dont really think that those polls are usefull, as the people who vote on this polls are Mr. Kerns followers, which advocate the idea of Legacy realms.

    I would like unbiased polls, as like in this forum. Where we just had a poll about Warcraft 4 > legacy > pristine, while Warcraft 4 won up to now. Seems its not that many people on these forums.
    You still really don't get it. I am not surprised because at this point people have pointed it out to you at least a dozen times, yet you seem to completely miss it. The polls are not asking you if you want legacy realms. Those bringing in the polls are already assuming there is adequate demand. They are obtaining information on what the player base wants, who WANT LEGACY REALMS.

    If you don't want the realms, don't skew the data.

  8. #24848
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Sabever View Post
    Che is a mass murderer. It is an ad hominem attack. Go look up the definition if you don't understand it.
    Che Guevara was a great revolutionist in the midst 20th century. He was the stereotype of a rebel for many. If i talk about Che Guevara, i refer to a rebel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabever View Post
    The polls are not asking you if you want legacy realms.
    But noone except those that are interested in legacy realms actually reads kerns posts.

    And thats the problem about it. If you want statistical relevant data, you need to ask all kinds of players and not just the followers of the apologetes of legacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabever View Post
    Those bringing in the polls are already assuming there is adequate demand. They are obtaining information on what the player base wants, who WANT LEGACY REALMS.

    If you don't want the realms, don't skew the data.
    I dont skew data at all, as i just cant do that. I just ask for unbiased results. And you surely will not find that based on polls from the ambassadors of legacy..

  9. #24849
    What ever came out of the meeting they were having with Blizzard?

  10. #24850
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoofisdead View Post
    What ever came out of the meeting they were having with Blizzard?
    Still pending, likely ~2-3 weeks from now. Mike is a stupid busy guy. (CEOs are like that.)
    Once we gathered friends together, drank a ton of Mountain Dew and beer, and role played with paper, pencils, and books.
    Now I log onto MMOs with the same people and we only talk about how hard we PWNed that: Noob, boss, etc.
    I hate modern gaming....

  11. #24851
    Quote Originally Posted by Gavan View Post
    I stand by my belief that there is no longer a community or customer base to split anymore. There is a strong correlation and slowly growing set of data showing that a larger portion of the pro-legacy crowd is no longer playing on the official live servers and many haven't/won't pre-order(ed) Legion.

    This would be a returning customer base, not a drain from the existing one. One exception being content droughts, which subs would be saved in this case, rather than folks un-subbing til the next expac/patch.
    Oh I completely agree. Just based on pure numbers there are far more people who are no longer playing than currently are. I think there is a very good reason Mr. Morheime and Blizzard as a whole is going to meet with Mark and the Nostalrius Devs. It's good business to try and bring business back, and this is a solid way to try it. The startup costs for doing this are minimal compared to other ventures major video game companies do. If it works out, I can bet they will find ways to exploit legacy servers in multiple avenues to make them popular.

  12. #24852
    Quote Originally Posted by TCGamer View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE legacy realms AFTER WoW Retail's development has ended. Then I could go back and play Wrath & MoP to my heart's content. Until then, I don't want Legacy realms, as I want Blizzard to focus on moving the game forward and provide quality content for me (and my family) to play. (Which they failed to do for most of WoD.)
    Out of interest though, apart from legal ramifications blah blah blah, if Blizzard suddenly pulled the curtain aside and said "Phwoom, jokes on you boys, we've been preparing Legacy servers for 2 years now and they're ready already! Vanilla TBC and Wrath!"

    If Legion turns out as bad as WoD; but not the "last" expansion, would you create a party with your family on a legacy Wrath server and play it or would you stick to Legion and hold out for the newer expansion?

    I guess what I'm clumsily trying to ask is "Is the 'live' aspect of retail WoW the bigger attraction, and the continuation of the story, even if the game itself is kinda crappy; or would you be prepared to sit out a poor qulity expansion in favour of spending 15 months playing through an expansion you've already done?"
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Posting here is primarily a way to strengthen your own viewpoint against common counter-arguments.

  13. #24853
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Out of interest though, apart from legal ramifications blah blah blah, if Blizzard suddenly pulled the curtain aside and said "Phwoom, jokes on you boys, we've been preparing Legacy servers for 2 years now and they're ready already! Vanilla TBC and Wrath!"

    If Legion turns out as bad as WoD; but not the "last" expansion, would you create a party with your family on a legacy Wrath server and play it or would you stick to Legion and hold out for the newer expansion?

    I guess what I'm clumsily trying to ask is "Is the 'live' aspect of retail WoW the bigger attraction, and the continuation of the story, even if the game itself is kinda crappy; or would you be prepared to sit out a poor qulity expansion in favour of spending 15 months playing through an expansion you've already done?"
    Hypothetically, if that situation presented itself and if I got bored with Legion (as I did with WoD, my last login was Jan 14th of this year), I would absolutely level with my family on a Legacy realm. Provided we could find some other decent people to play with (like we have with our guild on retail.)

    My daughter started in MoP and missed the entirety of the old Pre-Cata world, and gets lost sometimes when my wife & I talk about old places we've gone and things we've done. The main problem is that they wouldn't get to do much because they aren't nearly as skilled as I am at the game DPS-numbers wise. (My wife was the guild's top shackler as a shadow priest in the Kara time-frame, but sucked at DPS output.)

    I actually have a 3.3.5a Trinity-core pre-filled pack that I downloaded running on my domain controller at the house (Yes, I have all the computers in my house set up in a domain LOL) that I play with my wife, daughter, & her boyfriend on occasionally to show her things (We don't open it to the public, as it's not nearly a quality server LOL.)

    I've tried several private servers and haven't seen a glimpse of this great community they talk about, and if they are the people that would populate said servers, I'm not sure the community would be much different from retail.

    So, the answer to your hypothetical question would be provisionally "Yes" based on the community and if we could find decent people to play with.

  14. #24854
    Deleted
    Amazing the quantity of people of retail that comes here to bring hate to discussion.

    I dont go to wod or legions thread becaus i dont care about retail but you guys sure care alot about legacy servers i wonder why

  15. #24855
    Quote Originally Posted by TCGamer View Post
    Hypothetically, if that situation presented itself and if I got bored with Legion (as I did with WoD, my last login was Jan 14th of this year), I would absolutely level with my family on a Legacy realm. Provided we could find some other decent people to play with (like we have with our guild on retail.)

    My daughter started in MoP and missed the entirety of the old Pre-Cata world, and gets lost sometimes when my wife & I talk about old places we've gone and things we've done. The main problem is that they wouldn't get to do much because they aren't nearly as skilled as I am at the game DPS-numbers wise. (My wife was the guild's top shackler as a shadow priest in the Kara time-frame, but sucked at DPS output.)

    I actually have a 3.3.5a Trinity-core pre-filled pack that I downloaded running on my domain controller at the house (Yes, I have all the computers in my house set up in a domain LOL) that I play with my wife, daughter, & her boyfriend on occasionally to show her things (We don't open it to the public, as it's not nearly a quality server LOL.)

    I've tried several private servers and haven't seen a glimpse of this great community they talk about, and if they are the people that would populate said servers, I'm not sure the community would be much different from retail.

    So, the answer to your hypothetical question would be provisionally "Yes" based on the community and if we could find decent people to play with.
    Thanks for taking the time to reply fully; I wanted to find out how strong the pull of the live aspect of the "live" game was. Several people over the nearing 1300 pages have said they'd revisit legacy portions of the game "when the live version is finally finished, no more expacs, done" and as its not something I personally feel, I was just curious why/how much they felt this way, not least because a common argument that otherwise neutral parties bring up is "It will take resources away from the live version of the game".

    Regarding pirate server communities, I think a lot of what I have is tolerance and patience, and as such I pay less attention to the ultimately "hyper toxic" elements. People talking about gassing jews or raping or worse... I can't deny what I've read, on Nost, as well as others I've played on. However, I don't think the live servers would look much different if they were policed as laxly as pirate servers are, so I kinda put that down to "people who play WoW" rather than any inherent "legacy vs live" differentiation. Any Blizzard endorsed system would use their automated mute/ban system I'd imagine, and so inherently that side of things would be tempered slightly.

    On the other hand, the set up of the gameplay certainly encourages cooperation; so I don't know when you personally started but having an "instant 4 man party" whenever you want to play will make life considerably easier for all of you (herb/alch, miner/bs, skinner/LW, and tailor/enchanter holy moly :P) - but for others it quickly becomes obvious that "not treating everyone you meet as an asshole" has dividends, so on the whole, the personal interactions I've had with players has been great, I've already had offers to join some established guilds and I have a healthy friends list of people around my level to dungeon with Meeting new people is easy

    Anyway, gonna end this before I ramble too much

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rukya View Post
    Amazing the quantity of people of retail that comes here to bring hate to discussion.

    I dont go to wod or legions thread becaus i dont care about retail but you guys sure care alot about legacy servers i wonder why
    That's cool and all but

    a) You can accept that while you may not do it, other "pro legacy" people *have* spent plenty of time shitposting in pro-retail topics for a long time. Just ignore the baiters

    b) Your post is just perpetuating the baiting side of the discussion. I know there's not a lot new to talk about for now, but ye, last few pages have seen far too much shitslinging and not that much talk about the topic (that comment isn't aimed at you personally, mind ). IF someone anti-legacy or pro-retail comes in here to say something derpy like "Hurr durr, why you complain about content drought don't u no legacy get no more content hurrrrdurr" or "idiot legacy crowd want dumb grindy easy game instead of mythic raiding which is actually challenging" or w/e just... ignore it.

    Anyway, as you were
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Posting here is primarily a way to strengthen your own viewpoint against common counter-arguments.

  16. #24856
    Quote Originally Posted by rukya View Post
    Amazing the quantity of people of retail that comes here to bring hate to discussion.

    I dont go to wod or legions thread becaus i dont care about retail but you guys sure care alot about legacy servers i wonder why
    Because they fear legacy servers might end the 6-year old argument whether WoW loses subs cuz its old, or because devs fucked up the design.

    If Legacy servers fail to attract players, then its "meh".

    But if they do attract them...

  17. #24857
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusk View Post
    Transmog was a feature that removed ALOT of the feeling of getting new gear, of all the shitty features they've added this is without a doubt one of the worst.
    I agree with the rest of what you said though, especially the graphics (and models?).
    i sort of agree, but i also feel it added a lot of creativity on the players' side to the game, as well as a new collection option for people who may not enjoy raiding or pvp. i hope they overhaul the graphics on some of the vanilla gear so it can be incorporated into transmogs and not look so dated
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  18. #24858
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Thanks for taking the time to reply fully; I wanted to find out how strong the pull of the live aspect of the "live" game was. Several people over the nearing 1300 pages have said they'd revisit legacy portions of the game "when the live version is finally finished, no more expacs, done" and as its not something I personally feel, I was just curious why/how much they felt this way, not least because a common argument that otherwise neutral parties bring up is "It will take resources away from the live version of the game".

    Regarding pirate server communities, I think a lot of what I have is tolerance and patience, and as such I pay less attention to the ultimately "hyper toxic" elements. People talking about gassing jews or raping or worse... I can't deny what I've read, on Nost, as well as others I've played on. However, I don't think the live servers would look much different if they were policed as laxly as pirate servers are, so I kinda put that down to "people who play WoW" rather than any inherent "legacy vs live" differentiation. Any Blizzard endorsed system would use their automated mute/ban system I'd imagine, and so inherently that side of things would be tempered slightly.

    On the other hand, the set up of the gameplay certainly encourages cooperation; so I don't know when you personally started but having an "instant 4 man party" whenever you want to play will make life considerably easier for all of you (herb/alch, miner/bs, skinner/LW, and tailor/enchanter holy moly :P) - but for others it quickly becomes obvious that "not treating everyone you meet as an asshole" has dividends, so on the whole, the personal interactions I've had with players has been great, I've already had offers to join some established guilds and I have a healthy friends list of people around my level to dungeon with Meeting new people is easy

    Anyway, gonna end this before I ramble too much
    To answer your unasked question... I started in early 2006. less than 2 weeks after the realm I started on (Runetotem-US) came on-line. We got the game for me with that year's tax refund. I had played a tiny bit of EQ and some UO in the early days, and lots of Blizzard games, so I decided to try WoW. Enjoyed it because it was fairly casual. My wife tried a hunter on my account, then declared she wanted her own copy. We've played WoW for over 10 years together (we've been married for 17), and our daughter started in MoP (she's 15 now.)

    She and I have some good memories of our time in Vanilla & TBC, but for the most part, our memories are overrun by elitist toolbags telling my wife she wasn't good enough(not in a decent way, either), and me being punished for staying loyal to my friends and guild mates and not jumping ship to a more progressed guild. (She & I worked together to get her epic flying in TBC first, and then worked together to get my epic flight form quest completed for example or nearly screaming out loud when the item in ZG I had been saving my DKP for finally dropped [Will of Arlokk].)

    Wrath & MoP(with LFR) have been the best times for us, because those are the times we got to do the most stuff together. (She didn't get to kill Yogg, and I did, she didn't get to kill Arthas and I did, but we still had a lot to do together with Naxx, ICC, the Argent Tournament, ToC, daily heroics, and all the other stuff we could do that we couldn't before that.) In MoP, with LFR (and later Flex raiding) when the numbers didn't matter as much as the mechanics did (both my wife and daughter pick up mechanics well.) we all got to raid together again, and I still got to pursue the higher levels of content on my own while having 3 different healers available to bring to the table (druid, priest, and shaman. By the end of MoP, I had a lvl 90 of every class except Warrior. But, I suck @ DPS so I focus on healing.)

    The draw for us has always been the friendships we've made over the years (Still in contact with some people from our early WoW experiences), and being able to do stuff together. With Vanilla & TBC, that wasn't nearly as possible as it is in today's WoW, where I can do the easier stuff with them and still do the more advanced stuff with other people.

    That's part of where my stance on "Bring legacy realms out after WoW is done." comes from. To me, going back to Vanilla or TBC would be taking away my options and making me choose to play with those I care about, or progress in content. Now, I can do both.

  19. #24859
    Quote Originally Posted by Sabever View Post
    Che is a mass murderer. It is an ad hominem attack. Go look up the definition if you don't understand it.
    Bit off topic, but...only to an American, I guess. It's pretty much a compliment to the rest of the world.

    --

    On topic, Legacy Servers need to be a reality. WoW has become unbearably boring, so much that for the first time, I am not planning to buy the new xpack. One problem for LS, however, is with its business potential. LS means a player will only pay sub fee so long as he/she is playing on LS. Considering the fact that Blizz wants your money so bad, and they would sell you xpack every 3 months if they could, I doubt we will see LS anytime soon.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2016-05-09 at 08:52 PM.

  20. #24860
    Quote Originally Posted by rukya View Post
    Amazing the quantity of people of retail that comes here to bring hate to discussion.

    I dont go to wod or legions thread becaus i dont care about retail but you guys sure care alot about legacy servers i wonder why
    Oh shut up. Pro Legacies have been just as bad as the ones against it and you damn well know it. Both sides have utter morons on.

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