North Carolina, U.S., square off over transgender rights

[Fugus]

As a resident of North Carolina, I personally feel that when it comes time to use the restroom, go based on the tools you have, not on the tools you want.

That being said, I disagree with the law as well. A great deal of the debates and protests actually have to deal with the stuff they tacked onto it.

1) It repeals anti-discrimination laws for businesses towards Gays, Lesbians, Bi-sexual or Transgender workers.

2) It repeals anti-discrimination laws for our military veterans.

3) It bans any local governments from making any new anti-discrimination laws within their territories making the state level the law of the land. Effectively making #1 & 2 on this list permanent.

4) It bans local governments from setting their own minimum wages making the state level the only minimum wage allowed in the state even if you live in an expensive area.

5) As an extension of #4, it also extends that ban to benefits, worker protections and leave policies.

It effectively takes local governments controls over their own affairs away from them and gives that control to the state level while repealing decades of anti-discrimination laws.


If they didn't have all that crapped tacked onto it, there wouldn't be such a huge issue with it to begin with. I personally would vouch for fixing this entire issue by making all bathrooms single stall and unisex. Problem solved.

[Zyster]

It's not opening the door for them though. It will only work if the girl is alone in the bathroom. It doesn't matter if the offender is allowed in there or not since it can only happen if no one else knows.

It doesn't matter, that is what I'm trying to say. I did not strawman the argument by pointing out this is in fact opening more doors. If it actually happens or not is irrelevant, doesn't mean the door isn't open.

[Synadrasa]

The real question is which bathroom does this broad belong in?

[Zeth Hawkins]

Humans evolved naked for millions of years, pissing and shitting right next to each other without concern. This unease is a recent invention, a social convention, and a useless one at that.

You're right. We should all walk around naked, pissing and shitting right next to each other.

[Chrysia]

Yes, it does. I literally just pointed out how it does. Right now it is illegal to do that. If such laws make it Okay, it won't be. I don't understand how this isn't being grasped. And such is the fear people have with the issue, ignoring their moral obligations to the matter.

Dropping trou in a bathroom stall hardly qualifies as exposing yourself to the public.

[Underverse]

You're right. We should all walk around naked, pissing and shitting right next to each other.

Sure. Within the bounds of hygiene. Which in this case, means designated naked areas, and designated areas for getting rid of waste.

Nice try

[Karrotlord]

says you, but I know how easy it is to buy a blonde wig.

They can already do that! This law changes nothing about that!

[Edge-]

Yes, it does. I literally just pointed out how it does. Right now it is illegal to do that. If such laws make it Okay, it won't be. I don't understand how this isn't being grasped. And such is the fear people have with the issue, ignoring their moral obligations to the matter.

What laws would make it "ok"? It would still be indecent exposure. If I flash my package to a dude in the mens bathroom, that's indecent exposure. If I do it in a womens bathroom, that's indecent exposure. If a transgendered person flashes their package to someone in the mens bathroom, that's indecent exposure too. If a transgendered person flashes their package to someone in the womens bathroom, that's indecent exposure too.

Like, literally nothing changes no matter what.

[Chirri]

There's really only one reasonable solution here. Individual actual bathrooms, with real walls and locks on the doors, and someone responsible for handing out keys to the restrooms. Parents with small children, caregivers with people in need of assistance would be looked over to ensure the safety of all involved. Check out a key to use, return key before leaving, all in view of the world! Perhaps a trough off to one side for people not interested in complete privacy who'd just like to pee standing up and move on.

In the mean time, can we just set up new signs, Predator and Prey, outside the two restroom stall configurations?

Reasonable, obviously.

[Wells]

The arguments about trans people is just about the least interesting culture war item I've encountered. Maybe I'm getting old or something, I don't know. I just can't imagine why anyone on either side is really all that wound up about such a nothingburger.

Floundering GOP candidate took a look at what worked well in 2004 and said yeah gimme that.

[Zyster]

What laws would make it "ok"? It would still be indecent exposure. If I flash my package to a dude in the mens bathroom, that's indecent exposure. If I do it in a womens bathroom, that's indecent exposure. If a transgendered person flashes their package to someone in the mens bathroom, that's indecent exposure too. If a transgendered person flashes their package to someone in the womens bathroom, that's indecent exposure too.

Like, literally nothing changes no matter what.

Let me try to break it down more. If I go into womans bathroom now, whip it out and start using the toilet, it is a crime. Whether someone acts on it or not or if I really get charged with anything is different. If a law passes allowing them to use the sex they claim to be, it is no longer illegal. I don't know if I can break it down further than that. I hope you understand.

[Synadrasa]

This just in: New Job openings in North Carolina!!!!

The Gender-analytical-guru-psychotherapist

Requirements: An Ivy league education in social justice, first world problems and gender neutral studies.( NOT HIRING WHITE MALES SO FUCK OFF)

[Vanyali]

Let me try to break it down more. If I go into womans bathroom now, whip it out and start using the toilet, it is a crime. Whether someone acts on it or not or if I really get charged with anything is different. If a law passes allowing them to use the sex they claim to be, it is no longer illegal. I don't know if I can break it down further than that. I hope you understand.

Actually, it's not, and the only way anyone would KNOW that would be if they were looking into your stall (that had a mirror in the back), in which case THEY would be the ones that broke a law... for peeping.

If you did it in the sink, why yes, you would. As would the woman who crawled to the same sink and did it.

[Zeth Hawkins]

Sure. Within the bounds of hygiene. Which in this case, means designated naked areas, and designated areas for getting rid of waste.

Nice try

You weren't concerned with hygiene twenty minutes ago. What changed?

[purebalance]

The arguments about trans people is just about the least interesting culture war item I've encountered. Maybe I'm getting old or something, I don't know. I just can't imagine why anyone on either side is really all that wound up about such a nothingburger.

I was talking to a coworker about it even though it's "prohibited talk" at work (we were in the back quietly as we could), and we really couldn't figure out where we stood on the bathroom thing. I don't really approve of trans to be honest, but they exist so issues like this arise. We both said that ok so with the NC law you have what appears to be a man in a woman's bathroom, but then again without the NC law if we followed "the gender someone identifies as" you could easily have the same issue. So either way you're going to have the possibility of someone not looking like the bathroom in question. She pretty much asserted that the only real fix would be individual bathrooms everywhere so nobody could really object to anything. I really don't know a solution.

[Zyster]

Actually, it's not, and the only way anyone would KNOW that would be if they were looking into your stall (that had a mirror in the back), in which case THEY would be the ones that broke a law... for peeping.

If you did it in the sink, why yes, you would. As would the woman who crawled to the same sink and did it.

Regardless, you can be reported for it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyeurism is another example.

[Edge-]

Let me try to break it down more. If I go into womans bathroom now, whip it out and start using the toilet, it is a crime.

I don't believe this is correct. You'd be in a stall, so you wouldn't be exposing yourself. You'd be asked to leave by employees, most likely, but I don't believe you would have committed a crime (at least in most of the US).

You'd need to physically expose yourself for there to be a crime, which would need to be an intentional act in either genders bathroom.

If a law passes allowing them to use the sex they claim to be, it is no longer illegal. I don't know if I can break it down further than that. I hope you understand.

NC is trying to pass the law making it illegal for them to do so, because current federal law does not prohibit it. The federal government is suing back to protect that right, at least if I'm understanding this all correctly.

Regardless, you can be reported for it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyeurism is another example.

Another crime that has no relevance to whether transgendered individuals can use the bathroom of the gender they identify as. Your gender/gender identity is irrelevant when dealing with voyeurism.

[purebalance]

He's going to be in the bathroom with your women. Now tell me about how he could walk in and not get kicked out for being a man.

Yeah and under the rules that trans would like to have, someone that looks like him that still has male genitals could go into the women's bathroom because they feel like a woman. There is no right answer. Trans want 100% flexible bathroom use whether you're pre op, post op, on hormones, or not.

[Karrotlord]

Let me try to break it down more. If I go into womans bathroom now, whip it out and start using the toilet, it is a crime. Whether someone acts on it or not or if I really get charged with anything is different. If a law passes allowing them to use the sex they claim to be, it is no longer illegal. I don't know if I can break it down further than that. I hope you understand.

Only if someone sees it. Which they wouldn't because you'd be in a stall. And if they peeked into said stall, they'd be the one doing wrong.

[Felya]

Let me try to break it down more. If I go into womans bathroom now, whip it out and start using the toilet, it is a crime. Whether someone acts on it or not or if I really get charged with anything is different. If a law passes allowing them to use the sex they claim to be, it is no longer illegal. I don't know if I can break it down further than that. I hope you understand.

What law does a man just using a women's bathroom break?