Page 10 of 31 FirstFirst ...
8
9
10
11
12
20
... LastLast
  1. #181
    The Unstoppable Force THE Bigzoman's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Magnolia
    Posts
    20,767
    Start by not shutting the fuck up about it.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    I'm sorry, but that article is largely bullshit. Much of it is false, and the rest is just media crap. if that's your reasoning to 'go vegan'.. Don't.

    "Going Vegan" does not save animals. And provides little health benefits.

    While I might seem biased, I had little love for the vegan movement beforehand, and even less after it very nearly killed my brother. Humans are just not built for that kind of diet. There are ways (that are all BETTER) to do all the things you listed, besides switching to a vegan diet. Look into those instead.

    Sometimes people need to, for medical reasons. Or moral ones. I don't agree with that, but.. hey. That's how it is. People do what people do. But don't pick your morals over a crappy website. If you're going to do it, make sure you actually feel strongly. Not because some propaganda website said so.
    Bullshit. I'm calling bullshit. Your brother did not almost die of vegan diet. He either went to an extreme raw vegan diet or had a pre existing condition. There is not one single thing dangerous or unhealthy about eating a regular vegan diet. Not one. There are however, a seemingly endless list of health problems linked to meat and how its produced.

    Veganism is at minimum every bit as healthy as eating meat and at maximum significantly more healthy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tankbug View Post
    If you want to live longer and healthier, be sure to exercise and control your food, but you don't want to cut out meat. Yes, there are more calories in meat than your average salad, but there's also a lot of nutrients that you have to get from other sources. You also don't feel more energetic from sticking to veggies only, it's some nonsense that they advocated based on your memory of eating too much of rich food, and feeling tired. Meat is not bad for you!
    However, the other arguments are true. Too many animals suffer in industrial farms, and it should change, even if that meant significantly more expensive meat.
    None of that is true. Not a single bit of it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    None of that is actually all that true or at minimum misleading.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  3. #183
    Plenty of delicious Indian foods that are vegan friendly.

  4. #184
    I wonder how the people of next century will look down upon us for our poor mental healthcare system. We really need to get these sick vegans the mental therapy they need to be productive, meat eating members of society.
    #SaveTheVegans

  5. #185
    The Insane Underverse's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    The Underverse
    Posts
    16,333
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    Bullshit. I'm calling bullshit. Your brother did not almost die of vegan diet. He either went to an extreme raw vegan diet or had a pre existing condition. There is not one single thing dangerous or unhealthy about eating a regular vegan diet. Not one. There are however, a seemingly endless list of health problems linked to meat and how its produced.

    Veganism is at minimum every bit as healthy as eating meat and at maximum significantly more healthy.

    - - - Updated - - -



    None of that is true. Not a single bit of it.
    B12 anemia can be lethal.

    Pernicious anemia was a fatal disease before about the year 1920, when George Whipple suggested raw liver as a treatment.

    So you're factually wrong here.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    None of that is actually all that true or at minimum misleading.
    What a powerful rebuttal to my 5 peer reviewed studies.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by velren View Post
    Yes, the fact humans have evolved for thousands of years as omnivores is certainly not sufficient evidence that our diets should have a balance (including meats and dairy, etc).....ok....
    Well so I hate veganism as much as the next guy but this argument is an easy trap to fall into. Just because our body likes to do something does not make it supremely healthy. We are omnivores because being capable of digesting a large amount of different food makes survival easier, that doesn't mean everything we eat is necessarily healthy for us, it just means our bodies can take at least some form of nutrients or calories out of it.

    To give some perspective. Your body also evolved to love a never ending supply of sugar fat and salt because until relatively recent times salt (ie electrolytes) were not nearly as abundant to find and sugars and fats represented a large amount of caloric intake which, btw, were also hard to come by until recent times. (Recent being the last 1000+ years which is very short in terms of evolutionary cycles). Does that mean you should just pile on as many calories and as much salt as is physically possible? Of course not.

  7. #187

  8. #188
    I love all those medical experts on mmo-c !

    So first off : no you won't die if you go vegan as long as you still manage to get the nutriments YOUR body needs.

    If you really want to find out what the best diet for you, go find a good nutritionist.

    Otherwise, just don't be vegan. Meat is good too. You're not an evil person if you're eating meat.
    _____________________

    Homophobia is so gay.

  9. #189
    Brewmaster
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Birmingham, Alabama
    Posts
    1,297
    Thank you all for your replies! I got answers now

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    As a biologist who does read peer reviewed studies every day - many of which are in the field of nutrition - I can comfortably say that you're wrong.
    Lets see them...

    Quote Originally Posted by velren View Post
    Yes, the fact humans have evolved for thousands of years as omnivores is certainly not sufficient evidence that our diets should have a balance (including meats and dairy, etc).....ok....
    The fact that we eat more meat now than ever and the fact that nations that never had cardiovascular disease or diabetes until they started consuming more animal products actually supports what I say more than what youre trying to say. The fact that we now have an obesity epidemic across the world supports it too. The fact that nations that rarely consumed meat and never had those ailments until they started consuming meat regularly also proves you wrong. I can go on and on.
    Last edited by Xirrohon; 2016-05-10 at 01:14 AM.

  11. #191
    The Insane Underverse's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    The Underverse
    Posts
    16,333
    Quote Originally Posted by Zylos View Post
    Well so I hate veganism as much as the next guy but this argument is an easy trap to fall into. Just because our body likes to do something does not make it supremely healthy. We are omnivores because being capable of digesting a large amount of different food makes survival easier, that doesn't mean everything we eat is necessarily healthy for us, it just means our bodies can take at least some form of nutrients or calories out of it.

    To give some perspective. Your body also evolved to love a never ending supply of sugar fat and salt because until relatively recent times salt (ie electrolytes) were not nearly as abundant to find and sugars and fats represented a large amount of caloric intake which, btw, were also hard to come by until recent times. (Recent being the last 1000+ years which is very short in terms of evolutionary cycles). Does that mean you should just pile on as many calories and as much salt as is physically possible? Of course not.
    It's evidence in favor, though. And with incomplete information - and our nutritional science is woefully incomplete - it's often better to make a judgement a posteriori based on what we can readily observe in human physiology.

    Your second paragraph is more a justification of this than anything else.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Xirrohon View Post
    Lets see them...
    Well, I entered this thread posting 5 studies. So you can start there.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Charityx View Post
    Vitamin deficiencies ... Addressed multiple times already in this very thread. Try again.
    Addressed how? With supplementation?

    I think that's sufficient to show that vegan diets are not optimal in terms of health.

  12. #192
    Merely a Setback breadisfunny's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    flying the exodar...into the sun.
    Posts
    25,923
    Quote Originally Posted by BeerWolf View Post
    Plenty of delicious Indian foods that are vegan friendly.
    i agree indian food is the best.
    r.i.p. alleria. 1997-2017. blizzard ruined alleria forever. blizz assassinated alleria's character and appearance.
    i will never forgive you for this blizzard.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendra View Post
    As if being vegan would automatically lead to malnutrition.
    Studies have proven that vegans need to use more supplements that they are not getting enough by not eating meat/fish/eggs.

    They are deficient in the following:

    Animal protein contains all the essential amino acids in the right ratios. It is important for muscle mass and bone health, to name a few. Vegans don’t get any animal protein, which can have negative effects on body composition.
    Study by Dong A. & Scott S.C. University of Wisconsin, Madison, Wisc., USA; Northwestern Memorial Hospital, Chicago, Ill., USA
    Study by The Journal of Nutrition, Health & Aging & Research Centre on Aging, Geriatric Institute of Sherbrooke University, Faculty of Physical Education and Sports, Québec, Canada.

    Creatine helps form an energy reservoir in cells. Studies show that vegetarians are deficient in creatine, which has harmful effects on muscle and brain function.
    Study by Department of Psychology, University of Swansea & Clinical Audit and Research Unit, NHS Trust

    Carnosine is protective against various degenerative processes in the body and may protect against aging. It is found only in animal foods.
    Study by US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health

    Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) is the most active form of Omega-3 fatty acids in the body and primarily found in animal foods. The plant form of Omega-3s, ALA, is inefficiently converted to DHA in the body.
    Study by US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health

    Now this doesn't mean having the odd non meat/fish/dairy free meal is bad, because it is not, it has also been proved that those that are vegans have less cholesterol which isn't bad but saying that by going full vegan over a long period will decrease your testosterone levels and that can cause a whole lot of other issues.
    Study by Journal of Applied Physiology


    To date no controlled trials have been held by anyone that show that veganism is better for you, what is a proven fact and you can prove that yourself by looking in the mirror and opening your mouth that we humans are omnivores we can eat both.
    Now if nature built us this way that means we have to consume both (in moderation) to have a balanced physiology.

    So i eat meat, fish & eggs and drink milk but also fruit & vedge are part of my diet.
    The choice is yours ofcourse but my advise is this, eat both as its way more healthy.
    Want to play SWTOR again and get 7 free days of subscription access + free ingame goodies: http://www.swtor.com/r/d5LnJT

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    B12 anemia can be lethal.

    Pernicious anemia was a fatal disease before about the year 1920, when George Whipple suggested raw liver as a treatment.

    So you're factually wrong here.

    - - - Updated - - -



    What a powerful rebuttal to my 5 peer reviewed studies.
    Of course B12 deficiency can be a problem. Being vegan does not mean you're deficient in B12 though. Also B12 doesn't actually come from animal protein. Maybe you should have learned that stuff in your schooling.

    The problem with those studies is most importantly, the definition of a vegan diet and what specific foods were eaten or not eaten. There is no actual deficiency in of those vitamins in a normal vegan diet. Meat eaters need more supplements than vegans to reach the mythical peak health these studies are asserting. I doubt you've done significant research into the numerous supplements and antibiotics the meat itself needs. And for the last one, do you understand what food animals eat?
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  15. #195
    Become an hero, pray to Buddha to return as a cow

  16. #196
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Epic Premium
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA-US
    Posts
    45,577
    It's my understanding that modern Veganism is basically bifurcated into the Vegan diet (one completely free of animal products or by-products) and the Vegan social philosophy (avoidance of practices that constitute the exploitation of animals of any kind). I assume the OP talking primarily about the former as opposed to the latter, for health reasons or the like. There's nothing patently wrong with a Vegan diet so long as you ensure you're being supplied with all the necessary dietary requirements for a human being - sufficient Vitamin B12, Protein, Calcium, Vitamin D, Iron, and Omega-3/Iodine. There are typically dietary sources for all those things that match with Vegan offerings, although depending on allergies or personal tastes you may need to indulge in supplements.

    One aspect of switching a diet radically different from your current is to consult a physician if you notice changes in your energy levels, recovery times, growing fatigue or unexplained bruising and body aches. Not everyone's biochemistry is equally adept at extracting necessary vitamins and minerals from different types of foods - and without vigilance you could quickly develop a serious condition due to depletion of specific vitamins and minerals.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  17. #197
    The Unstoppable Force THE Bigzoman's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Magnolia
    Posts
    20,767
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    Of course B12 deficiency can be a problem. Being vegan does not mean you're deficient in B12 though. Also B12 doesn't actually come from animal protein. Maybe you should have learned that stuff in your schooling.

    The problem with those studies is most importantly, the definition of a vegan diet and what specific foods were eaten or not eaten. There is no actual deficiency in of those vitamins in a normal vegan diet. Meat eaters need more supplements than vegans to reach the mythical peak health these studies are asserting. I doubt you've done significant research into the numerous supplements and antibiotics the meat itself needs. And for the last one, do you understand what food animals eat?
    Are you budhhist, or at the very least eastern spiritual?

    Noticing a lot more people who think like I do but are also vegean.

    It's not enough to make me a non- aspiring budhhist, but still.

  18. #198
    There is literally nothing more dangerous in being vegan than:

    The majority of the protein foods consumed in the U.S. are meat and animal products, which are often high in saturated fat and cholesterol, as opposed to the more nutrient-dense and health-promoting plant-based options (e.g., beans, peas, lentils, soy products, nuts and seeds).4 Typical American diets also fall significantly short of meeting recommendations for vegetables, fruits, and whole grains.5

    A strong body of scientific evidence links excess meat consumption, particularly of red and processed meat, with heart disease,6,7,8 stroke,9 type 2 diabetes,6,10 obesity,11,12 certain cancers, 7,13,14,15,16 and earlier death.7,8 Diets high in vegetables, fruits, whole grains and beans can help prevent these diseases and promote health in a variety of ways.17,18,19,20,21

    Why does meat increase health risks? Studies give several reasons: high saturated fat and cholesterol content,6 high energy density,11,21 carcinogenic compounds found in processed meat and formed during high-temperature cooking,8,22 a compound called L-carnitine in red meat that may promote plaque build-up in the arteries,23 and the lack of health-protective plant foods in high-meat diets.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by THE Bigzoman View Post
    Are you budhhist, or at the very least eastern spiritual?

    Noticing a lot more people who think like I do but are also vegean.

    It's not enough to make me a non- aspiring budhhist, but still.
    Atheist and vegan.

    I have one belief....do the least amount of harm possible.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    Well, I entered this thread posting 5 studies. So you can start there.
    Those all point to B12 deficiency which Ive already agreed that if you go Vegan you will have to supplement. Do you have anything else to show how its such an inferior diet than what Ive already stated?

  20. #200
    The Unstoppable Force THE Bigzoman's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Magnolia
    Posts
    20,767
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    There is literally nothing more dangerous in being vegan than:



    - - - Updated - - -



    Atheist and vegan.

    You can be atheist and budhhist. Plenty of budhhist don't believe in any deities.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •