Socializing, server communities, friendships

[ShiyoKozuki]

If you were so popular whats the problem now?
Right maybe just you are posting loads of crap.

All my friends quit.
No ability to make more friends because you don't need them.
Community is absolute garbage and worse than league of legends, treating people like shit and just using people like means to an end.

Blizzard created this community by making the game all about me me me and rush rush rush rush and 0 accountability.

- - - Updated - - -

They have never taken anything away from people who want to form there own groups. They have given you more options than you had to begin with. You have been able to form groups the same way you were able to in vanilla. They have given you a great looking for group option tool and there have been add on's in the past that were pretty good. You want take away features other people enjoy because like the egotistical feeling of excluding and choosing people. Nobody has taken anything away from you since vanilla. Personally I think its stupid to play any game for the social aspect. I only play games that I like. If I happen to meet people who also like the same game and we become friends, then it is just a bonus.

This is just wrong. There's more options, yes, for the SOLO/PUG PLAYER. You can go make your own hfc raid, reserve yourself loot, kick people who underperform or don't play how you want or are undergeared, and keep doing this until you're fully geared. You don't actually make any friends or socialize, you 're just using people as a means to an end.

THIS is the problem with the game. The actual tools and features they added are HARMFUL for the game. The main culprit here is CROSS SERVER. With such a gigantic pool of players you'll never see again, you can be as picky as possible until you get the perfect group of players you want, clear the content, get the gear, and repeat again.

You simply just keep forming groups or hop from group to group until you get one that meets your demands. No longer must you socialize, or form strategies and try to improve/progress as a team because you aren't limited by a few amount of people. You have the ENTIRE GAME at your disposal, and with millions playing(Probably down to less than 3m now tbh though), you can just be as picky as you want until you get what you want. Zero reason to commit to anyone, zero reason for anyone to commit to you. There's too many options. These tools, when combined with a huge millions of player pool, have given you TOO many options to do content. It greatly caters to the solo/pug/asshole player who just wants to get content done.

It's easy to get content done now, so you don't have to put up with someone worse than you, or help them improve, or talk to them, or anything. You can simply kick them, and within 5 minutes replace them with someone potentially better than them.

THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH THE GAME. PEOPLE ARE TOO DISPOSABLE AND EASY TO REPLACE. Before you had to work with WHAT you were given so you talked, communicated, worked together as a team, and tried your hardest to progress with WHAT you were given. Now? You simply kick, and get a replacement in a few minutes, repeat until they're as good as you want them to be.

CROSS SERVER IS BAD FOR THE HEALTH OF THE GAME. REMOVE CROSS SERVER FROM ALL END GAME CONTENT.

[huehuehue]

No ability to make more friends because you don't need them.

That and they don't need you. Even if you're very friendly and try to talk to your LFD party, people won't even bother responding. I could talk all I want, but that other player can just ignore me and requeue. They don't need me after 15m and any interaction just slows down the run.

[ShiyoKozuki]

That and they don't need you. Even if you're very friendly and try to talk to your LFD party, people won't even bother responding. I could talk all I want, but that other player can just ignore me and requeue. They don't need me after 15m and any interaction just slows down the run.

Yeah, it's actually slower to group up with people than it is to solo for nearly 100% of the content in WOW. It's better to reserve your own loot you want and then pug people than it is to invite a friend and reserve loot for two of you, because that'll just make people angry. It's better to so lo level because duo isn't faster at all.

When 99.99% of the game is faster when you're solo, and actually becomes SLOWER when you're invite as little as 1 other person to your group, you have FAILED as MMO developers.

[ls-]

THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH THE GAME. PEOPLE ARE TOO DISPOSABLE AND EASY TO REPLACE. Before you had to work with WHAT you were given so you talked, communicated, worked together as a team, and tried your hardest to progress with WHAT you were given. Now? You simply kick, and get a replacement in a few minutes, repeat until they're as good as you want them to be.

CROSS SERVER IS BAD FOR THE HEALTH OF THE GAME. REMOVE CROSS SERVER FROM ALL END GAME CONTENT.

People were always disposable and replaceable, only lowpop realms had issues w/ replacing people.

You mentioned TBC raid progression path previously, that it's good and so on. But that path was the reason why so much cross-realm interaction was introduced to this game. TBC system was guild breaking, higher tier guild were stealing/picking/recruiting better equipped and/or better skilled people from lower tier guilds. Many lower tier guilds were trapped in this awkward state and couldn't progress for really really long time or even ever, cuz whenever they managed to get needed number of decently equipped and skilled people, some of those people were either given a better offer they could, but didn't refuse, or left on their own for greener pastures.

Even in TBC really many people were just fair weather friends, who were throwing others under the bus all the time.

[Adamas102]

I think these are the #3 main defining and important features of an MMO.

If I'd known that, I wouldn't have started playing 10 years ago.

[RayenDark]

People would find ways to exploit that. Being on the same server should maybe increase drop rates but not to have more drops per bosses considering many use personal loot.

Also this would be a mutli-boxer's dream. It isn't hard to sync 1-5 accounts to a group and exploit this. Hell there are a few 20 multi-boxers on my server that would drool over the gold intake alone.

If they add this to the game it will pay to roll 3-5man party yourself.

[ShiyoKozuki]

People were always disposable and replaceable, only lowpop realms had issues w/ replacing people.

You mentioned TBC raid progression path previously, that it's good and so on. But that path was the reason why so much cross-realm interaction was introduced to this game. TBC system was guild breaking, higher tier guild were stealing/picking/recruiting better equipped and/or better skilled people from lower tier guilds. Many lower tier guilds were trapped in this awkward state and couldn't progress for really really long time or even ever, cuz whenever they managed to get needed number of decently equipped and skilled people, some of those people were either given a better offer they could, but didn't refuse, or left on their own for greener pastures.

Even in TBC really many people were just fair weather friends, who were throwing others under the bus all the time.

Not my experiences at all.
Doubt you played, or you're another player jaded about the game when it was actually good.

[ls-]

Not my experiences at all.
Doubt you played, or you're another player jaded about the game when it was actually good.

Lel, k, because what you're describing here wasn't my experience, although I've been playing this game since patch 2.0.4

I didn't say I didn't enjoy the game, but I see where all the CR stuff they introduced is coming from. Yeah, it damaged socialisation, didn't kill it though, but it allowed many more people to progress, cuz they now have access to bigger pool of players.

And I'm not talking about LFR. Can't say I'm in favour of LFR system...

[ShiyoKozuki]

You didn't play since vanilla. Vanilla was the WOW in it's PRIME, especially for socializing and server communities. At the end of Vanilla we got cross-server bgs, which was the beginning of the end of socializing in WOW. It's when PVP died entirely for me because you never knew anyone and then they kept adding cross-server to more content, and you have the game you have today.

My server forum went from constant trash talking and e-drama about PVP and stuff to zero. Everyone knew everyone on my server in PVP(or nearly everyone who played more than 1 hour a week) and we constantly saw each other in BG's and world pvp. That is, until cross-server BGs. TBC also added flying mounts, which means world pvp was no longer a thing. You never saw those people in the world anymore now either, so you lost even more of your server community.

Cross-server is garbage that needs to go away forever from anything not leveling dungeons. Flying needs to not be a thing in WOW at all outside of specific fly only zones that let you do special things with flying.

Honestly, if you haven't been playing since vanilla you don't know jack shit about server communities, because every "feature" added since then has made the game more and more anti-social and worse.

[Crimewave]

Oh stop with this friendship BS.
Content diversity, class design and reward distribution it is.
Blizzard managed to shit the bed with all 3 in WoD.

[Deleted]

You didn't play since vanilla. Vanilla was the WOW in it's PRIME, especially for socializing and server communities. At the end of Vanilla we got cross-server bgs, which was the beginning of the end of socializing in WOW. It's when PVP died entirely for me because you never knew anyone and then they kept adding cross-server to more content, and you have the game you have today.

My server forum went from constant trash talking and e-drama about PVP and stuff to zero. Everyone knew everyone on my server in PVP(or nearly everyone who played more than 1 hour a week) and we constantly saw each other in BG's and world pvp. That is, until cross-server BGs. TBC also added flying mounts, which means world pvp was no longer a thing. You never saw those people in the world anymore now either, so you lost even more of your server community.

Cross-server is garbage that needs to go away forever from anything not leveling dungeons. Flying needs to not be a thing in WOW at all outside of specific fly only zones that let you do special things with flying.

Honestly, if you haven't been playing since vanilla you don't know jack shit about server communities, because every "feature" added since then has made the game more and more anti-social and worse.

God, what amount of energy you are using to persuade people vanilla was that good and they still dont belive you.

Ok, if I were you, I would create a guild of like-minded people, play with them the way you want. That way you wont notice crz, lfr,lfd and stuff you dont like. Maybe you tried that, but you cant find people like that which makes you relict of the past. Time steam rolled over you, others moved on.
And you have another choice - if WoW is stubborn and wont change to your needs, then change the game. Pick a game with lower population number, less servers, where everybody know eachother. Try Wildstar, give it a week or two, and you will find everything you need if you are so crazy about socializing.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Friends are great in games. Most of my guild was together since BC and we were the result of two guilds that merged from classic. In this guild I have seen the value of gaming communities, gaming friends, and why they are important. Hell some members have met, got married, and even have kids now. A few of them I confide in as much as I do with people I have know since my high school and college days that I am still in touch with as friends today.

Why is this community so important to me and others? To be honest it is because the community has lead to trust and respect for each other. It allows us to forgive and forget when one of us fucks up and says or does the wrong thing. It doesn't stop drama at all but it reduces its damage to very little if any. For sure long term damage. This allows people to share and express opinions very openly. Hell it allows a outspoken guy like me to have a place without tears being shed. All of this has lead to a steady road of success. We just about always have goals set and just about always accomplish them. Then we celebrate them together. This allows us to judge us by our own standards instead of being so intoxicated in other people's standards.

Of course we do have turn over. Our main community of old schoolers is about 15 strong at this point. So every expansion we typically have 20 to 25 folks entering the system. Sure about 15 to 20 of them end up leaving. But those that stick around though almost never leave. Also of course so of our old schoolers end up hanging it up from time to time. But they always stick around in some fashion. Maybe they want a few rounds of overwatch. A game of SC2. Or just level up in the next expansion, do some 5 mans, and then disappear once things get serious in guild again for whatever reason. Retired folks can do what they want. But they are always welcome to chat on the forums or mumble server. Or log into any game and be in the guild or clan. One of my favorite threads on the forums is a recipes thread that is filled with old schoolers. Got a lot of good dishes from that one!

Oh well. That's my thoughts on my they matter. I know it is personal and not overly objective but it is why I love them. It is why I think they are important.

[Ebalina]

All my friends quit.
No ability to make more friends because you don't need them.
Community is absolute garbage and worse than league of legends, treating people like shit and just using people like means to an end.

Blizzard created this community by making the game all about me me me and rush rush rush rush and 0 accountability.

No you can still make friends.
The time you spend here complaining you could of made at least 2 new friends.
But hey hard stuff i know.

[tankbug]

A player just wanting some quick and accessible play to get a mild satisfaction from a game he considers to be past it's prime by many years, which I consider most of the remaining wow players to be, will be frustrated if Blizzards removes all group finding tools and makes all progress "group" difficulty. It will probably drive away every player except the very hard core, who have a very established social network within the game.

[Deleted]

A player just wanting some quick and accessible play to get a mild satisfaction from a game he considers to be past it's prime by many years, which I consider most of the remaining wow players to be, will be frustrated if Blizzards removes all group finding tools and makes all progress "group" difficulty. It will probably drive away every player except the very hard core, who have a very established social network within the game.

It might but the word hardcore has changed since the game was designed that way...

Hardcore now means you enchant and gem your gear.

To be frank I haven't had a desire to interact with the wow community since wrath and unless there is some massive purge like gold proving groups for dungeons I would rather not be involved with anyone but my guild.

Hell the last time I did lfr to farm the music sheet I had people bitching and threatening to kill my family over doing to much dps...

Retards have been catered to for three expansions now and it has had a scorched earth effect on the community. Maybe in three more expacs it will be worth something again.

[Gilgameshh]

A player just wanting some quick and accessible play to get a mild satisfaction from a game he considers to be past it's prime by many years, which I consider most of the remaining wow players to be, will be frustrated if Blizzards removes all group finding tools and makes all progress "group" difficulty. It will probably drive away every player except the very hard core, who have a very established social network within the game.

I'll tell you my issue with that argument, even if I think you're right. You may agree with me as well, but I'm just making a point.

The reason people don't have established social networks in the game is because of things like LFD/LFR/CRZ Group Finder. Removing them, though, wouldn't solve the problem because there are so many other design changes Blizzard has made over the years that make LFD/LFR/CRZ almost a necessity. I'll complain about the damage they've done, but no one should be ignorant to the fact that the problem is so much deeper.

There's no difficulty in leveling, there aren't any group quests you really need help with out in the world at max level, and there aren't any rare recipes that only a handful of people have obtained. You have absolutely no reason to talk to anyone anymore, and because of that, you aren't creating or joining any social networks. So, simply removing CRZ grouping systems would do nothing but hurt those who, like you said, haven't already joined/created a social network. Unfortunate, but true.

It's because of these issues that I feel the only solution is Blizzard's pristine server idea. If you want the old way of doing things, play on a pristine server. If you don't, play on a normal server. Hopefully we won't be having these conversations sooner than later because pristine servers will actually be a thing, but who knows how well they'll turn out overall.

[TCGamer]

I'll tell you my issue with that argument, even if I think you're right. You may agree with me as well, but I'm just making a point.

The reason people don't have established social networks in the game is because of things like LFD/LFR/CRZ Group Finder. Removing them, though, wouldn't solve the problem because there are so many other design changes Blizzard has made over the years that make LFD/LFR/CRZ almost a necessity. I'll complain about the damage they've done, but no one should be ignorant to the fact that the problem is so much deeper.

There's no difficulty in leveling, there aren't any group quests you really need help with out in the world at max level, and there aren't any rare recipes that only a handful of people have obtained. You have absolutely no reason to talk to anyone anymore, and because of that, you aren't creating or joining any social networks. So, simply removing CRZ grouping systems would do nothing but hurt those who, like you said, haven't already joined/created a social network. Unfortunate, but true.

It's because of these issues that I feel the only solution is Blizzard's pristine server idea. If you want the old way of doing things, play on a pristine server. If you don't, play on a normal server. Hopefully we won't be having these conversations sooner than later because pristine servers will actually be a thing, but who knows how well they'll turn out overall.

Well, as far as the leveling portion goes, Ion touched on that today in the video, and he said that part of the problem was that new people joining the game and wanting to play with their friends had a daunting challenge to get from "1 to 85" just to be able to play with them, so they sped leveling up. However, that now with the boosts, that wasn't as much of a necessity anymore, so they were looking into stretching the leveling back out, so that it wasn't so "easy" anymore. Not to Vanilla levels but to obtain a compromise.