Removing transmog from WoW.

[Wildmoon]

this thread made me search for "clown gear WoW" in google and some of them just made me cringe so much lol.

[Deleted]

I still don't understand how the visuals of your gear has anything to do with how powerful your character is.

So you cant imagine someone whos intentions is to look more powerful after a transmog? Ignore the fact that you can inspect them, and see their max health.

[Deleted]

What content was there in BC that you could do if you weren't a top end raider? Tell me one single thing you could do outside of raiding.

PvP, Dungeons for badges, rep grinds, mount grinds, entry-level raids like Karazhan, crafting. All things that are still relevent content now.

I should also point out to OP that correlation does not imply causation and just because sub numbers dropped after the introduction of XYZ does not mean they left because of XYZ.

[Atelniar]

They did make it so you had to do a quest to learn the newest level of professions. Prior to this expansion you just clicked "learn" at the newest trainer. So, that's more RPG stuff, right? I also specifically said gathering professions. Seems like a boring RPG element if you consider it one. "I'm an artisan at collecting X!" No matter what it is or how you collect it, it's rather boring. I did like the more unique and exclusive items a BS could create in BC and I think a few other expansions. I'm not a huge fan of the random stat allocation to crafted gear now.

I'm not sure if gathering materials for JC has really changed at all since it was introduced. Don't you still just prospect ore? Unless you're referring to leveling JC before you could actually cut gems. Gathering materials to level professions up to 300/450 in BC and wrath was a bit heavier on the RPG side I suppose because unless you wanted to spend thousands of gold (Which was a fair amount back then) you had to farm the mats yourself. I considered this more of a nuisance than added RPG elements though.

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But the followers in SWTOR were closer to you personally. Your followers in WoW were more like your soldiers that you gave orders to and a commander isn't going to work directly with every single one of his underlings.

Incorrect, it was actually a loot drop you got from killing mobs. I got the newest level range for mining/jewelcrafting by killing mobs or looting ore as a random recipe of sorts. Wouldn't say that was more immersive than "talking" to an NPC that is supposed to teach you how to do those things. I'd say it is less so. Can't say I remember any quests in WoD aimed at professions, which one are you talking about? The daily quest given to you which consisted of returning 2 specific crafted items to your profession building? I am confused.

I won't discuss random proc on stat allocations as I frankly hate the idea and it would be a long rant. It used to exist as long ago as Vanilla, but that was for green quality gear, not epic quality.

It has, prospecting is no longer a relevant thing, if I remember correctly. It is a while since I logged onto WoW, but I believe the ability prospect material is no longer in game for jewelcrafters. I couldn't seem to find it, at least. Everything was generated through the profession building in WoD. I didn't actively prospect ore I hunted. I could have simply skipped mining all together. I made so much ore through the mine in my garrison that I literally didn't need anymore at some point.

Prospecting is literally not a thing at all anymore, in terms of it being used. That is one more RPG element that WoD removed the use for. As for the idea of things being a nuisance? I have focused on that idea earlier, people aim for the path of least resistance. That doesn't mean that tedious labour has no role in an MMORPG. It means that people are naturally entitled and lazy. They want to avoid labour that feels streinous while online, if possible. When it is not possible and not relevant to gameplay mechanics it becomes tedious. Games such as BDO solve the idea of mounts being merely a tool to travel faster by letting mounts carry items for you while you ride it. This reduces the tedium introduced by currency and items having a set weight which would slow your character down. If that was introduced in WoW people would go ballistic, even if you could safely place your gold/items in the bank to faciliate such a thing. Aka: people are entitled and lazy, hence they repeat the idea of RPG elements being a "nuisance". Guess what? There are more nuisances in this world than there are genuinly fun things to do. The same is true for a fantasy setting.

[Deleted]

What content was there in BC that you could do if you weren't a top end raider? Tell me one single thing you could do outside of raiding.

Questing in the game world was a very long and painful & beautyful even horrible adveanture to me at some points, it was taking some serious time. Alot longer then a couple of transmog runs & ashran / LFR combined for example. Not to mention it was plenty of dungeons then aswell like it is now, they were just taking more time.

[Atelniar]

But the followers in SWTOR were closer to you personally. Your followers in WoW were more like your soldiers that you gave orders to and a commander isn't going to work directly with every single one of his underlings.

Depending on your class in SWTOR you sat on the Jedi Council and was an established diplomat representing the Republic and your status depended on your class. In WoW you are just a commander, irrelevant of class or race you answered to your faction's most prominent leader.

[Deleted]

So you cant imagine someone whos intentions is to look more powerful after a transmog? Ignore the fact that you can inspect them, and see their max health.

Youre points make no sense. This is a case of someone who wasnt around prior to the release of a feature that doesnt understand how things were before the feature was released. Same as the people who hate LFD.

[Ishayu]

No. A movie is a screen with moving images. A game world is a screen with moving images with a user interface on top of it.

No, a game world is the actual game world and the UI brings you information about the game world, just like the UI of a video player gives information about the current state of your movie playback. The UI is NOT the game world.

You might as well start telling me that a window is a desktop background or a painting is the wall. It's ridiculous.

You do realize what you're looking at your computer screen right now is a user interface, right?

Naturally. I'm looking at a forum.

Have you seen a player in front of you at any time playing the game? Congratulations. You interacted with other players.

Just because you sit in your garrison all the time doesn't mean everyone does. And what do you think dungeons and raids are? Are those npc running around with you tanking and healing? No. In that case it is an MMO.

As for the RPG part. You are playing the role of an orc warlock. Are you an orc warlock in real life? In that case you are roleplaying.

Tihihi, this one doesn't even understand the difference between singular and plural. Good luck to me trying to explain the difference between two and several thousands.

I was hoping the OP or his supporters would say this which it being relevant content still around would be my point. The game has lost nothing, it has only gained.

Lord help us...

[Deleted]

the only problem I have with transmog is how it has affected non-rated pvp. Used to be that everyone in the BG knew who to be wary of or gang up on. Now you take everyone you come across super seriously, but you honestly have no idea if they are going to decimate you, or you them, until it happens. Meanwhile the rest of the team just sees a 1v1 or a 2v1 and assumes you guys got it...even though it very well could be 2 700's vs a 740.

Look at hp, like everyone else? Also, the addon whassisname that outputs the names of enemy healers before the BG starts?

[Nynax]

How is this an issue in any pvp situation that matters? If you're just messing around and causally pvping in open world or BGs who cares? If you're playing serious then you're going to play at your best regardless if the player has a pink tutu or a full set of the latest pvp gear. You're just making up non-issues.

It's not a non issue to me, and just because it's non-rated doesn't make it meaningless (imagine if blizz thought that way?). I mean I've never been a serious pvper anyway...but I used to love it. The past couple expansions though I'll think "I'm gunna jump into some pvp and see how it goes." Then proceed to get my ass handed to me for 5 games, maybe I'm just bad, maybe I'm stupid out geared, idk...but it sure as hell wasn't fun. So there goes my interest in doing more and "getting serious" about pvp for the next 3 months. I'm sure that's an issue for more people than just me.

But still, I said "the ONLY problem." That sure as hell doesn't mean I want transmog removed, it's probably the best feature they've added to the game. This is just one thing that annoys me.

[Deleted]

Adding multiple difficulties is no different than playing Doom or any other game where you select difficulty. Welcome to gaming. Players doing any difficulty get rewarded gear, as the reward for doing content? Like how is that a hard concept to grasp? The games always rewarded you in some fashion for completing content.

Some players leave, as they don't like the game, or their friends left or they ran out of things to do or its too expensive or the person paying for it doesnt want them to play for it and hundreds of other reasons. You and I cannot blame one single thing for the reason why people quit. Lets not make shit up. Cata we know some people quit or expressed out rage over changes to dungeons or raids. There were other reasons of course, but at least blizzard knows they made a mistake back then.

Why do I run content for transmog? As I want my set to look cool. So even though i've done a lot of older raids I went back to do some of them again to get an item set completed. It had nothing to do with the state of the game as I even did old raids in mop when I had plenty of shit to get done.

What research have you done? You claim to have done research where is all your data backing up your claims?

I've been browsing on mmo-champions forums basicly everyday for 6 years. Youtube, Streams, Playing the game alot and by alot i mean that i have over years played combined on my characters. I like dissussing Wow as a subject, i read multiple blueposts and yes it is all because i love warcraft news, rumors, and speculations. I'm a big fan. But i dont see where i need to come with proof to all of this. I'm just stating obvious things, and me and many others opinions everyone have their rights to express what they believe in. But many players arent thinking about the game as a whole for the whole communitys good, they are mostly thinking of what will make them game best for themselves. I do like thinking outside the box, and what others may think and so on .

[Atelniar]

No, a game world is the actual game world and the UI brings you information about the game world, just like the UI of a video player gives information about the current state of your movie playback. The UI is NOT the game world.

You might as well start telling me that a window is a desktop background or a painting is the wall. It's ridiculous.

Naturally. I'm looking at a forum.

An OS is a user interface... which is what he meant, not the forum.

An open world can be considered a user interface that connects locations and tasks with the players current location in the world. However, mostly a user interface is supposed to be minimalistic and user friendly. An open world in a video game doesn't really aim for that. If you regard an open world as a GUI or UI, you are drawing parallells that reach a bit further than the actual definition of a GUI or UI.

However, the open world in RPG's and MMORPG's often offer similar use as an actual user interface does in an MMOFPS.

They can be compared, but calling an open world a user interface is quite a stretch. Open world design is a hell of a lot more complex than a generic UI.

[Deleted]

I was hoping the OP or his supporters would say this which it being relevant content still around would be my point. The game has lost nothing, it has only gained.

It's not really relevant to run around alone in isle of quel danas doing dailys because you want a tabard. It's an empty place, it's dead. It's no living beings out there besides lowlevel npcs. It's definatly not relevant, it's there but no just no .

[Deleted]

<troll>
Pristine relms = Remove LFR, LFG and Transmog! YES!!!!
Also please remove textures from the game as this game with textures loooks so new and we need to get vanilla.
</troll>

[Deleted]

They can be compared, but calling an open world a user interface is quite a stretch.

Indeed, but with all the semantic arguments, the context has been lost: the original discussion was that seeing the gear on a character is a more immersive way of knowing what content they're doing than inspecting them. Immersion is subjective, but that is a point, I'll grant you that. The "world as UI" was a counter to that, i.e. the other dude basically said that for *them* both things are just immersive or unimmersive, since they're both meta. Which is also a fair point.

<troll>
Pristine relms = Remove LFR, LFG and Transmog! YES!!!!
Also please remove textures from the game as this game with textures loooks so new and we need to get vanilla.
</troll>

You jest, but I distinctly remember a whine thread about Blizzard RUINING the game by... adding the new attack animations in Legion that also go on old models. So I guess reality is one step further than your hyperbole ;P

[khalltusk]

I've been browsing on mmo-champions forums basicly everyday for 6 years. Youtube, Streams, Playing the game alot and by alot i mean that i have over years played combined on my characters. I like dissussing Wow as a subject, i read multiple blueposts and yes it is all because i love warcraft news, rumors, and speculations. I'm a big fan. But i dont see where i need to come with proof to all of this. I'm just stating obvious things, and me and many others opinions everyone have their rights to express what they believe in. But many players arent thinking about the game as a whole for the whole communitys good, they are mostly thinking of what will make them game best for themselves. I do like thinking outside the box, and what others may think and so on .

So you have no proof, You have stated nothing but opinions. Thats fine glad we cleared that up.

I am more into the story of warcraft, same for many games actually. Transmog is one of the few features I think has done nothing but be positive for the game. For me personally I cannot wait to get the new dressing room in legion. I can finally have bank space once again.

[Ishayu]

Tell me a feature the game has lost. The only one I can think of right off the bat is reforging. I also didn't mean just the forum. I meant anything you look at your computer. You seem to not know what a user interface is.

I know what a user interface is. I program the darn things for a living.

And no, a user interface != contents. On a forum, for example, the actual text of a post is not part of the UI, but how it is presented is part of the UI.

So when I say the game world is not UI, what I obviously mean is that the actual content of the world is not a UI. The fact that you can click on players and have action bars and health bars and minimaps etc THAT is UI - but the appearance of someone's armor or the hill outside Ironforge is not UI.

That clear?

Moving on to features the game has lost: You have a very narrow view of what constitutes a feature. A feature is not just "You can do X", a feature is how the game reacts to you doing X.

The addition of transmog removes several features for this reason. For example, a feature could be that you could look at other players directly to assess their power level and skill within at least one part of the game at a glance without having to inspect them. That feature is now gone. That's literally the very first thing I brought up.

There are also several and quite large pieces of content that are gone: The entire vanilla world, hundreds of spells and abilities, talent trees, ... I don't even know where to start. To ask me to name a single feature the game has lost because you can't see any yourself is frankly frightening.

[Deleted]

Tihihi, this one doesn't even understand the difference between singular and plural. Good luck to me trying to explain the difference between two and several thousands.

So in all your years of playing the game (I assume) you only met two other players? Ever?

[Lotus Victoria]

Don't you dare touch in my mog!

I see your point, but one of the coolest features in WoW for me is: Look, this armor piece combines perfectly with this other one. I'll mash their appearance together so I can look cooler!

[chubbybunny]

I think what they should do is have 2 layers to your armor..

You've got that perfect outfit you want to show off after all that grinding for each piece.. you go an transmog your outfit on your current gear and lord around the capital city of your choice showing everyone your new look.. Then you go and do a dungeon/raid and get a new piece of gear with better ilevel/stats than your current piece, suddenly that outfit is ruined, and you'll need to go transmog it again.

So i think you should have 2 levels to your char, 1st level is the outfit you want to make it look like, and the 2nd is the actual gear you have.

Once you have your char wearing what you want it to wear, it'll always look like that regardless of what new upgrades you have, until you decide to go change that via transmog vendor.. each time you get a new upgrade in armor and equip it, only the actual gear tab changes.