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  1. #21
    Stood in the Fire Syfy's Avatar
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    The people that actually do something always get screwed, and the lazy ones in front just for the image, doing nothing and don't even have talent get the millions, the way of our wonderful world we live in.

  2. #22
    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I have no idea how you think rational consumption is being a "sheep". No one's following anyone when they choose to acquire the best product they can at the lowest possible price. Quite the opposite.

    Also, the idea that people should have the time or inclination to determine the means of production and proportional compensation for every $5 shirt they buy or streamed song they listen to is insane. Good luck with that quixotic quest, but I'm going to guess that you're gonna just wind up irritated with those horrible "sheep" for streaming songs without tracking down a sound tech to give a dollar to.
    It is not the responsibility of the consumer to compensate each person involved in the creation and delivery of the product. It is the company owners responsibility.

    Not sure why people keep pointing at the consumer here. They are given a price to pay, and they pay it. No questions asked. However, internally, the people involved in making it happen, should be fairly compensated by the record label.

    Again...This has absolutely nothing to do with the consumer, they have no part in this other than paying what they are told to pay.
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  3. #23
    The Undying Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gheld View Post
    Wait, do song writers ONLY write the lyrics?
    That varies entirely from song to song.
    "The pen is mightier than the sword.. and considerably easier to write with."

  4. #24
    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gheld View Post
    Wait, do song writers ONLY write the lyrics?
    Sometimes. Some writers are studio musicians as well. Some writers will basically perform the entire song, instrumentals and vocals, and then the hired performer will then use that material on stage, or repeat it in the studio with their own voice.

    You would be amazed at what goes on behind the scenes in the music industry.
    RIP Genn Greymane, Permabanned on 8.22.18

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  5. #25
    Banned Orlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paluman View Post
    It's retarded how someone doing things as simple as writing a song complains how he doesn't get enough money. I think 5k + is already too much for just writing a song.
    Especially when the "song" is just the same 5 word phrase repeated behind a boring repititious bassline that sounds like it was a factory keyboard sample about 345 times throughout the "song". That fact that he got even a cent is amazing to me

  6. #26
    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syfy View Post
    The people that actually do something always get screwed, and the lazy ones in front just for the image, doing nothing and don't even have talent get the millions, the way of our wonderful world we live in.
    This is, at times, very true.
    RIP Genn Greymane, Permabanned on 8.22.18

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  7. #27
    Brewmaster Khadgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paluman View Post
    It's retarded how someone doing things as simple as writing a song complains how he doesn't get enough money. I think 5k + is already too much for just writing a song.
    Well doing something simple as writing a children's book will normally get you just as much as a advance, plus any royalties on top of that.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by paluman View Post
    It's retarded how someone doing things as simple as writing a song complains how he doesn't get enough money. I think 5k + is already too much for just writing a song.
    Well hell yeah man. That 20,000-30,000 (w/e currency) salary people get for doing work? Fucking rediculous. How dare people expect to get paid for working! Silly beggars.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I have no idea how you think rational consumption is being a "sheep". No one's following anyone when they choose to acquire the best product they can at the lowest possible price. Quite the opposite.

    Also, the idea that people should have the time or inclination to determine the means of production and proportional compensation for every $5 shirt they buy or streamed song they listen to is insane. Good luck with that quixotic quest, but I'm going to guess that you're gonna just wind up irritated with those horrible "sheep" for streaming songs without tracking down a sound tech to give a dollar to.
    I'm not saying it's feasible. I'm just saying that's the way it works. That's why the little guy always gets screwed. But just because it's not feasible doesn't mean consumers aren't any less sheepish or at fault for their own misery as a result.

    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    Some add like a basic baseline or guitar rif to it but the song is far from complete at that point. Of course to write a song you need some sense of rhythm.
    Still if they're just writing the words then fuck this guy. I don't get no 6 grand for writing a bunch of shitty lyrics that don't make any sense (like "No treble"? REally? Bass and Treble are relative terms. You can express bass notes on a treble clef scale and vise versa.

  10. #30
    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    Especially when the "song" is just the same 5 word phrase repeated behind a boring repititious bassline that sounds like it was a factory keyboard sample about 345 times throughout the "song". That fact that he got even a cent is amazing to me

    After removing the part that everyone knows. This is the remainder of the lyrics of the song. I'm not proving anything here. Just showing that there is more to the song then the chorus. I'm not a fan, and I feel it is a very shallow song.


    Yeah, it's pretty clear, I ain't no size two
    But I can shake it, shake it, like I'm supposed to do
    'Cause I got that boom boom that all the boys chase
    And all the right junk in all the right places

    I see the magazine workin' that Photoshop
    We know that shit ain't real, come on now, make it stop
    If you got beauty, beauty, just raise 'em up
    'Cause every inch of you is perfect from the bottom to the top

    Yeah, my mama she told me "don't worry about your size"
    (Shoo wop wop, sha-ooh wop wop)
    She says, "Boys like a little more booty to hold at night"
    (That booty, uh, that booty booty)
    You know I won't be no stick figure silicone Barbie doll
    (Shoo wop wop, sha-ooh wop wop)
    So if that's what you're into, then go 'head and move along

    I'm bringing booty back
    Go 'head and tell them skinny bitches that
    No, I'm just playing, I know you think you're fat
    But I'm here to tell you...
    Every inch of you is perfect from the bottom to the top

    Yeah my mama she told me, "don't worry about your size"
    (Shoo wop wop, sha-ooh wop wop)
    She says, "Boys like a little more booty to hold at night"
    (That booty booty, uh, that booty booty)
    You know I won't be no stick figure, silicone Barbie doll
    So if that's what you're into, then go 'head and move along
    RIP Genn Greymane, Permabanned on 8.22.18

    Your name will carry on through generations, and will never be forgotten.

  11. #31
    Banned Orlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    If you want to support a musical artist, go to their shows. All those little local bands play shows every week, they aren't making a single cent unless we go to their shows. You could be supporting the next Bob Dylan, or Freddy Mercury by going to your local venue to see new, raw talent. Generally these shows will cost you between $5 and $20 pending on the venue and the day of the week. But it is 100% worth every dollar.

    Support Local Music.
    99% of local music is just bands covering other people's songs. I refuse to patronize someone who just copies someone else's work.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gheld View Post
    Do you follow around song writers and ask them for autographs and give them your 99 cents? No? Well then it's your fault.

    People just sheepishly consume entertainment without any consideration to where their dollar goes. And that's why songwriters have historically always gotten screwed over.
    Perhaps the song writers should sing their own songs if they want to make more money.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    It is not the responsibility of the consumer to compensate each person involved in the creation and delivery of the product. It is the company owners responsibility.

    Not sure why people keep pointing at the consumer here. They are given a price to pay, and they pay it. No questions asked. However, internally, the people involved in making it happen, should be fairly compensated by the record label.

    Again...This has absolutely nothing to do with the consumer, they have no part in this other than paying what they are told to pay.
    That's not what Gheld's saying.

    As near as I can tell, song writers are compensated fairly. What we're running into is that people have different concepts of "fair". I'm inclined to think that if someone writes something and sells the rights to the content to someone else for a sum of money or contract that they understand fully, they've been compensated fairly. If they truly have a product that's rare and difficult to obtain, they should be able to command quite the princely sum for it. That they can't suggests to me that there product just isn't that hard to come by; this is confirmed by looking at the actual lyrics to Trainor's song, which don't exactly suggest bursting poetic talent.

    People seem to think it's "unfair" that the song-writer doesn't get paid more. I don't know why.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gheld View Post
    I'm not saying it's feasible. I'm just saying that's the way it works. That's why the little guy always gets screwed. But just because it's not feasible doesn't mean consumers aren't any less sheepish or at fault for their own misery as a result.
    This is a really silly sentiment - "do this thing that I know isn't possible or you're a sheep". Maybe adopt a less hipster approach.

  13. #33
    Banned Orlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    This has absolutely nothing to do with the consumer though. It has to do with the contract they have with the label. Obviously the consumers are still streaming the music. But the song writer is getting such a tiny percentage of the media sales (Stream Sales). They need to work out better contracts.

    When it comes to the consumer, I still urge people to go to shows more often. Even the singer/performer doesn't get paid well from streaming, or even physical album sales. The best way to support an artist you enjoy, is to pay admission to their performances.
    But the song writer doesnt get a cent for live performances which is what the article is about.

  14. #34
    The Undying Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gheld View Post
    Still if they're just writing the words then fuck this guy. I don't get no 6 grand for writing a bunch of shitty lyrics that don't make any sense (like "No treble"? REally? Bass and Treble are relative terms. You can express bass notes on a treble clef scale and vise versa.
    That isn't really the point.
    The aspect to look at is the revenue the song has drawn in.
    It should be said that this song broke a billboard charts record, for 10 consecutive weeks at #1, formerly held by Michael Jackson's Billy Jean (I believe it was).
    Which means, that tune made a crap ton of money, of which the lion share went to the streaming services, not the writers or the artist performing either.
    "The pen is mightier than the sword.. and considerably easier to write with."

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by paluman View Post
    It's retarded how someone doing things as simple as writing a song complains how he doesn't get enough money. I think 5k + is already too much for just writing a song.
    If writing songs was that easy, everyone would be doing it. Considering just for singing the song, she's got a net worth of about $2m, yeah there's a bit of a discrepancy there. Now I'm not saying he exactly deserves half, but there should be some kind of contractual situation made that doesn't seem like it was in this case.

    A simple, "I'll pay you X amount of money for this song now." or "I will pay you X% of the profit of the song later." would have easily solved this situation. Likewise, he's trying to take full credit when it clearly says he co-wrote it. If he did truly write it himself, he shouldn't have given her the rights to put her name on it as "writer".

  16. #36
    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    99% of local music is just bands covering other people's songs. I refuse to patronize someone who just copies someone else's work.
    I wholly disagree. Depends where you live perhaps? The NJ music scene is alive and well. Full of original artists writing amazing music.
    RIP Genn Greymane, Permabanned on 8.22.18

    Your name will carry on through generations, and will never be forgotten.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    That isn't really the point.
    The aspect to look at is the revenue the song has drawn in.
    It should be said that this song broke a billboard charts record, for 10 consecutive weeks at #1, formerly held by Michael Jackson's Billy Jean (I believe it was).
    Which means, that tune made a crap ton of money, of which the lion share went to the streaming services, not the writers or the artist performing either.
    Which, of course, suggests that the actual marketable product is the streaming service. If the song-writer and other people involved in making the music disagree, they can always take the Prince approach and refuse rights to the streaming companies, electing to try to monetize their work on their own. Maybe it'll work. That's a business decision for music makers, but I can't imagine why a consumer should care much one way or the other.

  18. #38
    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    But the song writer doesnt get a cent for live performances which is what the article is about.
    "All About That Bass writer says he got $5,679 from 178m streams"

    Pretty sure this topic is about Stream Sales.
    RIP Genn Greymane, Permabanned on 8.22.18

    Your name will carry on through generations, and will never be forgotten.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Thetruth1400 View Post
    If writing songs was that easy, everyone would be doing it. Considering just for singing the song, she's got a net worth of about $2m, yeah there's a bit of a discrepancy there. Now I'm not saying he exactly deserves half, but there should be some kind of contractual situation made that doesn't seem like it was in this case.

    A simple, "I'll pay you X amount of money for this song now." or "I will pay you X% of the profit of the song later." would have easily solved this situation. Likewise, he's trying to take full credit when it clearly says he co-wrote it. If he did truly write it himself, he shouldn't have given her the rights to put her name on it as "writer".
    The bolded is what was done. He's just pissed that someone else made more money on it than him. Had he known at the time that he had actually produced a work of musical genius, worth millions, he would have shopped the content around for more bucks.

    Maybe, just maybe, his content isn't all that special though.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    That isn't really the point.
    The aspect to look at is the revenue the song has drawn in.
    It should be said that this song broke a billboard charts record, for 10 consecutive weeks at #1, formerly held by Michael Jackson's Billy Jean (I believe it was).
    Which means, that tune made a crap ton of money, of which the lion share went to the streaming services, not the writers or the artist performing either.
    Isn't that the way the industry has always been? Except now it's streaming services instead of record labels?

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