Captain America’s ‘heterosexual virility’ lamented by Vanity Fair

[Stormcall]

Erm...didn't the series already establish Cap as liking women...like, pretty clearly? If the article's author was still able to pretend all that stuff never happened in order to fantasize about Cap giving Bucky a full load of freedom, I don't see why they can't just pretend the heterosexual stuff in Civil War didn't happen either.

[Graeham]

To be fair, 'queer baiting' is very much a genuine thing that happens. Writers and directors in many shows will often play up the whole 'bromance' angle between two male characters just enough to make it plausible for them to be in love with each other. This isn't helped by jokes and comments about it during interviews by the actors either.

Supernatural is probably one of the best examples of that happening - even though the characters involved are only ever paired with women. Add to that the frustration of there being so few gay characters that aren't just walking negative stereotypes and it's easy to understand why so many people invest in the often dubious art of 'shipping'.

Of course getting angry when one's personal fantasy doesn't play out as intended is silly.

[The Whimsical Dwarf]

To be fair, 'queer baiting' is very much a genuine thing that happens. Writers and directors in many shows will often play up the whole 'bromance' angle between two male characters just enough to make it plausible for them to be in love with each other. This isn't helped by jokes and comments about it during interviews by the actors either.

Supernatural is probably one of the best examples of that happening - even though the characters involved are only ever paired with women. Add to that the frustration of there being so few gay characters that aren't just walking negative stereotypes and it's easy to understand why so many people invest in the often dubious art of 'shipping'.

Of course getting angry when one's personal fantasy doesn't play out as intended is silly.

Please be joking. Please be joking. Please be joking.

[GennGreymane]

Listen, I can understand why people think Bucky and Capt may have a bit more going on


(gif is totally relevant as a scene people def thought things were going that way)

[The Whimsical Dwarf]

Listen, I can understand why people think Bucky and Capt may have a bit more going on

People see what they want to. We live in a perverse world.

[Xeones]

To be fair, 'queer baiting' is very much a genuine thing that happens. Writers and directors in many shows will often play up the whole 'bromance' angle between two male characters just enough to make it plausible for them to be in love with each other. This isn't helped by jokes and comments about it during interviews by the actors either.

Supernatural is probably one of the best examples of that happening - even though the characters involved are only ever paired with women. Add to that the frustration of there being so few gay characters that aren't just walking negative stereotypes and it's easy to understand why so many people invest in the often dubious art of 'shipping'.

Of course getting angry when one's personal fantasy doesn't play out as intended is silly.

Bromance =/= Romance. You've just got some people out there obsessed with boys love who fanfiction male characters together regardless of how much sense it makes. There was nothing to suggest Steve and Bucky had romantic feelings, this article just comes out of left field.

I know there are indeed some fujobait anime out there, but your explanation was fairly poor.

[Graeham]

Please be joking. Please be joking. Please be joking.

I'm not joking. Just look at the Supernatural fandom.

There's a lot of people out there who watch TV shows and movies purely for the sake of finding characters to 'ship' with one another so they can post about it on their various blogs with like-minded individuals. At this point many writers and directors - as well as their marketing teams - are well aware of that and rather than develop characters that are actually gay/bisexual and well written they resort to 'baiting' those people into thinking many straight characters are actually that way.

When you consider the lack of well written homosexual/bisexual characters present in the mainstream media that aren't walking stereotypes then it makes a lot of sense. Ultimately it's fairly harmless until people get angry when it isn't made canon.

Ironically there's barely any backlash about people doing it with female characters and saying 'wudn't it be hot if dey were lesbians lol'.

[GennGreymane]

I'm not joking. Just look at the Supernatural fandom.

There's a lot of people out there who watch TV shows and movies purely for the sake of finding characters to 'ship' with one another so they can post about it on their various blogs with like-minded individuals. At this point many writers and directors - as well as their marketing teams - are well aware of that and rather than develop characters that are actually gay/bisexual and well written they resort to 'baiting' those people into thinking many straight characters are actually that way.

I dont think its purely what they watch movies/shows for. Its a side thing thats within a fandom.

[Trassk]

Heterosexual virility - the horror.

/sigh
/facepalm

And yet when the subject comes up in most media around movies and games about them not having enough lgbt characters in it, the usual heteronormative troglodytes that responde always say the same shit of "We don't want lgbt agendas shoves in our faces!"

I've made the argument enough times about wow following this heteronormative approach to storytelling, but it always gets meet with that same 'argument' of 'wow isn't a game that follows sexuality', when it so blatantly does with hetero relationships shoved in everyones faces.

The same goes for most movies, where the accepted attitude towards relationships is heteronorm, meaning straight couples doing something hinting romance is the accepted 'norm', yet if it were anything other then straight it would then be considered an 'agenda' by the mouthbreathers.

[GennGreymane]

And yet when the subject comes up in most media around movies and games about them not having enough lgbt characters in it, the usual heteronormative troglodytes that responde always say the same shit of "We don't want lgbt agendas shoves in our faces!"

I've made the argument enough times about wow following this heteronormative approach to storytelling, but it always gets meet with that same 'argument' of 'wow isn't a game that follows sexuality', when it so blatantly does with hetero relationships shoved in everyones faces.

The same goes for most movies, where the accepted attitude towards relationships is heteronorm, meaning straight couples doing something hinting romance is the accepted 'norm', yet if it were anything other then straight it would then be considered an 'agenda' by the mouthbreathers.

dont forget about the people who get upset at gay writers for writing gay characters.

[The Whimsical Dwarf]

heteronormative

Lol I love the SJW buzzwords.

[Graeham]

dont forget about the people who get upset at gay writers for writing gay characters.

To be fair, many gay writers simply perpetuate negative stereotypes.

[GennGreymane]

To be fair, many gay writers simply perpetuate negative stereotypes.

Whether they do or dont does not detract from my point. One argument is "You should make new characters if you want gay ones" and when a gay writer does that there is still the whole argument of "omg AGENDA"

[babybopAF]

This is pure feminist sewage. I bet anything the woman that wrote this is fat and unattractive and probably without children.

[Graeham]

Whether they do or dont does not detract from my point. One argument is "You should make new characters if you want gay ones" and when a gay writer does that there is still the whole argument of "omg AGENDA"

Indeed. Though that's understandable if those characters end up being very obvious about their sexuality or complain that they were discriminated against due to it. I'd be very happy with more gay/bisexual characters that just happen to be gay or bisexual without a fuss being made about it. Anything else is just furthering the 'us vs them' mentality.

Incidentally the lack of classically handsome, straight-acting masculine gay/bisexual characters is likely a contributing factor as to why so many people 'ship' the likes of Cap and Bucky with each other.

[The Whimsical Dwarf]

Whether they do or dont does not detract from my point. One argument is "You should make new characters if you want gay ones" and when a gay writer does that there is still the whole argument of "omg AGENDA"

Probably not the same person making both arguments though. Writers will get criticisms.

[Shadowferal]

And yet when the subject comes up in most media around movies and games about them not having enough lgbt characters in it, the usual heteronormative troglodytes that responde always say the same shit of "We don't want lgbt agendas shoves in our faces!"

Maybe you shouldn't try to inject it in already established storylines, or try to reinvent an established hetero-character.

Why is something original never attempted? (A question I once posed about comic books)

Simply enough, the idea doesn't sell well. Always takes money to produce anything original, and as an investment, it typically is just throwing money away. It takes time to establish a fanbase and more importantly "attention." And since that's what's really wanted, a popular character is typically singled out. Changing the character puts an already brighter spotlight on it.
Unfortunately it usually becomes silly as hell.

[KrazyK923]

And yet when the subject comes up in most media around movies and games about them not having enough lgbt characters in it, the usual heteronormative troglodytes that responde always say the same shit of "We don't want lgbt agendas shoves in our faces!"

I've made the argument enough times about wow following this heteronormative approach to storytelling, but it always gets meet with that same 'argument' of 'wow isn't a game that follows sexuality', when it so blatantly does with hetero relationships shoved in everyones faces.

The same goes for most movies, where the accepted attitude towards relationships is heteronorm, meaning straight couples doing something hinting romance is the accepted 'norm', yet if it were anything other then straight it would then be considered an 'agenda' by the mouthbreathers.

Gay dude here too broseph, and this like this is definitely an agenda. Opining about why Captain America and the Winter Soldier aren't gay and how they should be is pushing an agenda.

Notice how nobody (or almost nobody) gives any shits when gay characters are new and introduced in things. I'll keep using the example of Dragon Age: Inquisition. Nobody cared that Dorian and Sera were gay. Because they were new, unique, interesting characters who happened to be gay.

Get out of here with these "heteronormative" bullshit buzzword.

[GennGreymane]

Probably not the same person making both arguments though. Writers will get criticisms.

So the person who does not like seeing homosexual relations in one instance will automatically like it in the next?

- - - Updated - - -

Indeed. Though that's understandable if those characters end up being very obvious about their sexuality or complain that they were discriminated against due to it. I'd be very happy with more gay/bisexual characters that just happen to be gay or bisexual without a fuss being made about it. Anything else is just furthering the 'us vs them' mentality.

Incidentally the lack of classically handsome, straight-acting masculine gay/bisexual characters is likely a contributing factor as to why so many people 'ship' the likes of Cap and Bucky with each other.

Thing is, the instances I am thinking of are exactly what you describe. They are Bioware characters. One is Dorian in dragon age 3 who unless you try to have a romance with, you never learn of his sexuality. The other is the gay romance option in Mass Effect 3 with your ships engineer. You talk to him and learn that he had a husband who died. thats about it. People were still very upset over the agenda. No fuss with either character if you look at them.

Same with a quest in ESO with a gay guy who wanted to leave flowers on his lovers grave. No fuss, just random quest NPC. Yet there is still the agenda shit storm.

[The Whimsical Dwarf]

So the person who does not like seeing homosexual relations in one instance will automatically like it in the next?

I like a character that is written well. Their sexuality doesn't matter to me unless it becomes their whole identity. I become bored at that point. I have no interest in poorly written character to push an agenda or fill a perceived social void because 'we need more gay characters!"