Trudeau turns down Russian, U.S., Mexican offers to help battle Fort McMurray fires

[bladeXcrasher]

Well... while his country is burning he was tweeting about what would be worse, a world without feminism or his broken AC...

Is he 12, what kind of political figure posts shit like that? Pretending to asphyxiate himself while comparing feminism to AC. Now I'm really glad he turned down assistance.

[sarahtasher]

Yet the Fire is still not contained.

If fifty ish aircraft are not able to contain the fire, adding ten more, who are converted maritime patrol bombers and thus probably more delicate to use on lakes than Canadian aircraft is not going to help much....

(it's not a figure of speech, the Russian amphibians are built to operate over seas, and require three times more space to ''land'' and ''take off'')

[Thimagryn]

Because I assume they'd send Firefighters? You know... trained to fight fires?

It's pretty clear to me that you have absolutely no idea what the situation is, what factors are involved, and that you perceive to be much simpler than it actually is. How much do you actually know about forest fires in Canada? Because your answer is as simple as saying you can fix your national debt by 'paying it off'.

[Oneirophobia]

The fire is 0% contained. Z e r o. The fire fighters are exhausted. People are hungry, thirsty, tired and have no place to go. Why turn away aid? What are you gaining?

And the Prime Minister, the one who was alarmed about making a small fire during camping because "carbon footprint!" appears to be just fine with 200k hectares of burning forest.

[Jotaux]

Also Lol at the ecological impact being "Positive"

Here is a quick easy to read document from the government of California:

http://www.fire.ca.gov/communication...fitsofFire.pdf

There are also articles on the Natural resources Canada website outlining the benefits.

[Tennis]

Oh so Trudeau is actually HELPING the environment by letting it burn now?

Might want to brush up on the benefits of forest fires. You're looking clueless.

[Endus]

Because YOUR COUNTRY IS FUCKING BURNING.

There's a fire. That doesn't mean "the country is burning". That's ridiculous hyperbole. Using all-caps just highlights it for what it is.

I AM CONCERNED ABOUT THE ECOLOGICAL IMPACT OF A COUNTRY THAT IS NOT USED TO EXTREMELY WIDESPREAD FOREST FIRES THAN CAN BE SEEN FROM ORBIT

Canada gets these fires very regularly. It's why we have such a large fleet of water bombers and such, and why our crews were so well trained and experienced that Fort Mac got through with as little damage as it did, and nearly no loss of life (and those deaths not being due to the fire).

And the "you can see it from orbit" thing is just silly. You can also see the Great Lakes from orbit. That doesn't mean Canadians are drowning under hundreds of feet of water.

[Deleted]

http://blog.suny.edu/2013/08/ask-an-...ildfires-good/

lol at your lack of basic understanding of ecological science. That's what... grade 4 or 5 science class here in Ontario. Probably lower.

Difference between a regular contained forest fire and whats happening right now. Even the fucking article you posts says such.

Smaller fires prevent larger fires from happening later.

This is not a small fire.

[Deleted]

Is he 12, what kind of political figure posts shit like that? Pretending to asphyxiate himself while comparing feminism to AC. Now I'm really glad he turned down assistance.

People voted for that...

To be fair though most of the area on fire never voted for him.

[Tyrianth]

The fire is 0% contained. Z e r o. The fire fighters are exhausted. People are hungry, thirsty, tired and have no place to go. Why turn away aid? What are you gaining?

And the Prime Minister, the one who was alarmed about making a small fire during camping because "carbon footprint!" appears to be just fine with 200k hectares of burning forest.

The fire is the responsibility of the Alberta government. The Alberta government advised the PM to turn down the foreign aid. The fire is no longer a threat to human settlements or human lives and best course of action is to maintain the perimeter of the fire that poses most risk to humans and let the rest of burn into the uninhabited land and burn itself out.

[Mihalik]

The problem is that Canada has probably already gathered the maximum amount of men and material they can supply logistically into the field.

Adding more to it, would simply reduce the amount of resources available to individual firefighters and units.

"All hands on deck" in this case is limited by how many of those hands can you keep supplied.

In many other situations the reverse is often true, you have the logistics and resources in place, but not the man power at the end.

[Jotaux]

Difference between a regular contained forest fire and whats happening right now. Even the fucking article you posts says such.

Smaller fires prevent larger fires from happening later.

This is not a small fire.

The Natural Resources Canada website says:

Not all wildland fires should (or can) be controlled. Forest agencies work to harness the force of natural fire to take advantage of its ecological benefits while at the same time limiting its potential damage and costs.

http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/forests/fire-...ces/fire/13143

[Tyrianth]

Difference between a regular contained forest fire and whats happening right now. Even the fucking article you posts says such.

Smaller fires prevent larger fires from happening later.

This is not a small fire.

Contained as in poses no risk to humans. The majority of this fire no longer poses a risk to humans, the small area of it that does pose a risk is being controlled just fine.

[ramjb]

As long as quebec gets burnt down i'm happy

[Deleted]

Might want to brush up on the benefits of forest fires. You're looking clueless.

You might want to brush up on the impact mass burnings of forests have on Carbon Emissions.

Pro-tip: It's the largest contributor.

- - - Updated - - -

Contained as in poses no risk to humans. The majority of this fire no longer poses a risk to humans, the small area of it that does pose a risk is being controlled just fine.

Right.

"Oh it's not being contained, it's just safe now"

[sarahtasher]

People voted for that...

To be fair though most of the area on fire never voted for him.

They voted for the NPD in the provincial election...

[Thimagryn]

The fire is 0% contained. Z e r o. The fire fighters are exhausted. People are hungry, thirsty, tired and have no place to go. Why turn away aid? What are you gaining?

And the Prime Minister, the one who was alarmed about making a small fire during camping because "carbon footprint!" appears to be just fine with 200k hectares of burning forest.

One factor is the nature of forest fires and the change in climate. Each year gets hotter and hotter. Sometimes it's better to let the forest burn because it if not, it will eventually. Keep in mind that forest fires in Canada happen every year. You just don't hear about it because it's not global news worthy like this one ended up being.

In this case, it's a huge fire, one that is not easy to contain. With people already evactuated, there isn't much left to control. The best situation is to let it burn out rather than directing more resources to slowing down what is pretty much inevitable; and then focus on the rebuilding after all the damage is done.

[Deleted]

There's a fire. That doesn't mean "the country is burning". That's ridiculous hyperbole. Using all-caps just highlights it for what it is.



Canada gets these fires very regularly. It's why we have such a large fleet of water bombers and such, and why our crews were so well trained and experienced that Fort Mac got through with as little damage as it did, and nearly no loss of life (and those deaths not being due to the fire).

And the "you can see it from orbit" thing is just silly. You can also see the Great Lakes from orbit. That doesn't mean Canadians are drowning under hundreds of feet of water.

Yeah, no. All I see by every canadian hyperliberal is excuses.

Why is the fire not contained?

Why did you even sustain damage to a city in the first place?

If you're so adept at managing fires these should NOT HAVE HAPPENED IN THE FIRST PLACE

10-15% of a city is still peoples homes, still lost.

[Tyrianth]

You might want to brush up on the impact mass burnings of forests have on Carbon Emissions.

Pro-tip: It's the largest contributor.

- - - Updated - - -



Right.

"Oh it's not being contained, it's just safe now"

Very little actually in the long term. The carbon that's released into the area will very quickly return to its original state as the forest regrows and captures the carbon.

[Gheld]

Because YOUR COUNTRY IS FUCKING BURNING.

I AM CONCERNED ABOUT THE ECOLOGICAL IMPACT OF A COUNTRY THAT IS NOT USED TO EXTREMELY WIDESPREAD FOREST FIRES THAN CAN BE SEEN FROM ORBIT

Canada is extremely used to forest fires. It's a natural occurrence. Which is why we have the worlds single largest fleet of fire fighting aircraft. Not only are the majority of forest fires caused by lightning strikes, but the most destructive ones are caused by lightning strikes, since the human fault ones occur much closer to civilization where it is easier to contain them.

The only reason people are hearing about this one is because 80,000 people had to evacuate on short notice, which made for a sexy news story around the world. Usually people don't live that far north in such large numbers, but the city of Fort Mac was an anomaly caused by the oil rush.

As I've eluded to constantly throughout the post, when you have a country, with one of the largest contiguous stretches of dense forest, forest fires are a fact of life. There's a fire danger bulletin board at the entrance of every campground with an easy to read sign telling you what the danger level is. And when Canadians go camping, that's one of the questions we ask when selecting a camp site. Are there shower facilities? Is it going to rain? Is it on fire?

Canada has 348 million Ha of forest. The fort Mac fire is definitely a real jaw dropper, at 200,000Ha. But hardly 'Canada burning'.

I've always considered our exceptional resilience to media sensationalism one of our strengths as a people, so please stop trying to erode it.

EDIT: and as it's been discussed here already, burning in fires is a natural part of the life cycle of jack pines. Their seeds literally can't sprout until they've been exposed to 1000 degree temperatures.