The Ebon Blade's new Four Horsemen (massive spoilers)

[Deleted]

Have they not messed up Taylor's death in WoD, he would ahve been an amazing addition instead of Tirion alongside Nazgrim. Rivals in life, comrades in death.

So just like Koltira and Thassarian, just instead of homosexual Lifepartner they would be probably just slightly homo lifepartners.

Dathrohan has barely a character and basically no background. So no, that's objectively false.

Renault is a bitch. Besides, there's already Whitemane as Scarlet Crusader, there's no need to abuse the concept and sell "redemption stories" to all of them.

First, Tirion as a Paladin is already boring as shit and turning him into a Death Knight takes everything away that defined his character without really adding something.

Saidan would have at least the potential to be awesome in his rage and vengeance against Balnazzar.

Renault could have been a really interesting Character as Hoursemen. First, he could try to redeem himself in Undeath, he could make things clear with his brother again and he would also have some connection to Balnazzar and be fucking pissed at him. After all, nearly everything that went miserable in his life was because of Balnazzar.

Tirion on the other Hand...yeah, what could he add to the Ebon Blade? We all know, a faction conflict between Paladins and Death Knights would be really really awesome, that's why there will probably no consequences for the invading of Light's Hope and the Paladins will eat it.

[Zulkhan]

First, Tirion as a Paladin is already boring as shit and turning him into a Death Knight takes everything away that defined his character without really adding something.

It doesn't take anything away from him, apart his Paladin theme. And it's too early to start arguing about what he would add or not.

Saidan would have at least the potential to be awesome in his rage and vengeance against Balnazzar.

Saidan is an hilariously irrelevant character. His sole reason to exist was to serve as an empty husk for Balnazzar to possess. Who cares about the desire of vengeance of a non-character?

Renault could have been a really interesting Character as Hoursemen. First, he could try to redeem himself in Undeath, he could make things clear with his brother again and he would also have some connection to Balnazzar and be fucking pissed at him. After all, nearly everything that went miserable in his life was because of Balnazzar.

Renault was a scumbag and he doesn't deserve any redemption. The last thing I want to see is this guy returning from the grave bitching about how bad Balnazzar manipulated him, ignoring his own glaring faults on the matter.

Also, and I'll say it again since you seem to have missed it, we have already a Scarlet Crusader and that's enough. There's no need to sell redemptions to all of them. Whitemane makes even more sense because she effectively turned psychotic because of a heavily traumatic event, compared to Renault who simply let Balnazzar play him like a fiddle due to his growing jealousy and resentment. If we have to choose, Sally is definitely more deserving than him.

Last but not least, the Four Hoursemen are quite Human-dominated already, it would be nice to at least have some variety among those three Humans.

Tirion on the other Hand...yeah, what could he add to the Ebon Blade?

More than Renault and Saidan would add for sure, for nothing but the mere, objective fact that, as a character, Tirion has much more background, development and weight than both of them.

[Deleted]

Renault was a scumbag and he doesn't deserve any redemption. The last thing I want to see is this guy returning from the grave bitching about how bad Balnazzar manipulated him, ignoring his own glaring faults on the matter.

Also, and I'll say it again since you seem to have missed it, we have already a Scarlet Crusader and that's enough. There's no need to sell redemptions to all of them. Whitemane makes even more sense because she effectively turned psychotic because of a heavily traumatic event, compared to Renault who simply let Balnazzar play him like a fiddle due to his growing jealousy and resentment. If we have to choose, Sally is definitely more deserving than him.

Last but not least, the Four Hoursemen are quite Human-dominated already, it would be nice to at least have some variety among those three Humans.



More than Renault and Saidan would add for sure, for nothing but the mere, objective fact that, as a character, Tirion has much more background, development and weight than both of them.

I don't know. I still think, Renault would make a deeper and more interesting character. I mean, Grommash and the Orcs got Redemption and they are far worse than the Scarlet Crusaders, they commited rape, genocide and conquest just because some ghosts of dead brutes told them to do so in our timeline and without a deeper reason in AU Draenor.

And Tirion is jsut boring. All he has as character defining traits is being the semi-perfect Paladin for people with a one-dimensionl understanding of complex themes like morals or the greate good and being a Nerdboy Fantasy for Chris Metzen and Boys who wish they were Chris Metzen. He doesn't even have a real personality that runs deeper than some cheap and pseudo-heroic phrases about honor and light. On my Server, liking him is pretty much the idiot test for Paladin-Rpers, because most People who like him and are fans of his Argent Crusade play their Paladins like Tumblr Social Justice Warriors, while nearly every Paladin-Player with some kind of class hates this Character.

[Deleted]

They should just make Arthas the fourth horseman and send him to fight possibly evil Jaina

[Theoris]

I mean, Grommash and the Orcs got Redemption and they are far worse than the Scarlet Crusaders, they commited rape, genocide and conquest just because some ghosts of dead brutes told them to do so in our timeline

That was Kil'jaeden's doing. The orcs' ancestors had nothing to do with it; it was Kil'jaeden all along.

- - - Updated - - -

Renault would make a deeper and more interesting character.

Thinking Renault is a more interesting character than Tirion... Well, that's an idiot test in itself.

[Chipskunk]

Taylor is still there. I'm not an expert in necromancy, but probably his ghost can be transformed into a dk with some magic.
He's too notable to be just forgotten in the alt Draenor.


To be raised as a DK is hardly a "redemption story", btw.

yeah, he's not. tirion is more notable than taylor by far. you only knew about taylor by being forced to do blah blah blah quests

[Rizendragon]

I don't think Tirion fits, for some reason; he is too major of a character and with all the returns we have, it seems like Blizzard went a bit overboard in his case.

This definitely doesn't fit the character or the Lore really... Tirion was a pure being. The Light would protect him even in death. This one is a stretch, and I agree that Taylor would have been a better choice for this.

[Deleted]

That was Kil'jaeden's doing. The orcs' ancestors had nothing to do with it; it was Kil'jaeden all along.

Yeah, in the disguise of some Dead Brutes.

Thinking Renault is a more interesting character than Tirion... Well, that's an idiot test in itself.

Do you have some arguments why Tirion as a Death Knight would be more interesting than Renault?

Do you have arguments why Tirion is interesting to begin with?

[Alanar]

Except they always had a leader figure, as long as they existed.

Exactly, and if that is the case Tirion will fer sure be that guy..I Realy do hope that is not going to happen
Baron Rivendare and 1st Mograine were both pretty cool characters for that matter.

[Theoris]

Yeah, in the disguise of some Dead Brutes.

I take it this guy is one of your favorite characters.

Do you have some arguments why Tirion as a Death Knight would be more interesting than Renault?

Renault was a whiny bitch that never did anything to earn the approval or attention he wanted. Just because he was the oldest son he expected special treatment without actually doing anything. He was such a pathetic wreck of a manchild by the time he was grown up that he was easily persuaded (not mind controlled: persuaded) into killing his own father; all for his own personal gain (or that's what he thought, anyway - he was really just Balnazzar's puppet, like the rest of the Scarlet Crusade).

Renault didn't do anything, didn't want to do anything, and blamed his dad for his own shortcomings. He would be a less interesting version of Galen Trollbane (who wasn't a very interesting character to begin with) if he was revived as a death knight instead of Tirion.

Do you have arguments why Tirion is interesting to begin with?

Probably nothing that will convince you; can't really give you anything but my personal taste.

I like the "old man still kicking ass" character in stories; plus I like characters that have a strong sense/code of honor (as long as it doesn't blind them, that is). Also, after his son died he didn't spiral back into self-pity and bitterness. He decided to do something about the Scourge and its stranglehold on Lordaeron (said something being building an order that invaded Northrend and ultimately killed the Lich King - with help).

[Deleted]

Probably nothing that will convince you; can't really give you anything but my personal taste.

I like the "old man still kicking ass" character in stories; plus I like characters that have a strong sense/code of honor (as long as it doesn't blind them, that is). Also, after his son died he didn't spiral back into self-pity and bitterness. He decided to do something about the Scourge and its stranglehold on Lordaeron (said something being building an order that invaded Northrend and ultimately killed the Lich King - with help).

And I would like giving Renault a second Chance, a opportunity to redeem himself. After all, he was manipulated by one of the Leaders of the Burning Legion and it looked pretty much like Alexandros was a shitty dead to Renault. Darion was wounded in battle, Renault already felt bad and what did Alexandros? Packed his Sun after his first fight and yelled at him because Darion couldn't look after himself. He favored Darion all the time and didn't even do something to hide it. And I read the scenes in the comic again, it looked like some magic was involved while Balnazzar talked to Renault. I would like to see Renault as a Death Knight some day, if not as Hoursemen.

And you may see his character with a strong sense and code of honor, I see his action as egomaniacal. He never sacrificed something by himself, he let the sacrifice part always do others.

[Traveler Voltin]

so beta is soon and yet this quest still isnt in game?
just wow

[Maxilian]

so beta is soon and yet this quest still isnt in game?
just wow

Maybe... it is intentional, also it seens that they have been adding the other classes oder hall quest line (looking at the shammy)

[Zulkhan]

He never sacrificed something by himself

He literally sacrificed everything to uphold his beliefs. What he had to sacrifice by "himself"? An arm? Would have been more painful than lose your family, your status, your wealth, all the respect you earned during the years to become a mocked and despised hermit relegated in the wilderness?

You can say all you want about Tirion, but denying his character is literally built on the concept of personal sacrifice is nonsense. Your opinion about the worthiness of his motivations is absolutely irrelevant in regards of this.

[Gabronthe]

I skipped through most of this thread, TLR, however, I thought the four horseman were just four assholes in Naxx. what makes these 4 horsemen so meaningful as compared to just having 4 Deathknights?

[Gnarilex]

I skipped through most of this thread, TLR, however, I thought the four horseman were just four assholes in Naxx. what makes these 4 horsemen so meaningful as compared to just having 4 Deathknights?

They're stronger. The original four were the most powerful under Kel'thuzad's command, and we need that power to battle the legion.

[Gabronthe]

So...why are they stronger?

[Deleted]

He literally sacrificed everything to uphold his beliefs. What he had to sacrifice by "himself"? An arm? Would have been more painful than lose your family, your status, your wealth, all the respect you earned during the years to become a mocked and despised hermit relegated in the wilderness?

You can say all you want about Tirion, but denying his character is literally built on the concept of personal sacrifice is nonsense. Your opinion about the worthiness of his motivations is absolutely irrelevant in regards of this.

Yeah, for what? Saving a murderer, a Soldier of the Horde just because of his own self-centered feeling of honor? Attacking man who never did somethign wrong, to save one fel-corrupted brute who only left the Horde because invading a foreign world and attacking a race that never harmed his people was not glorious enough when it happens under a Warlock?

A Self-Sacrifice is only worth something, if it happens for some greater good. Tirion tossed every duty he had away, just because of his own personal honor, that's heroic in your opinion? And I'm wrong, because of what? Because I think in more dimensions than Chris Metzen? Because I just don't think "oooohhhh, pure Eitrigg, he saved Tirion", but also a Soldier of the Horde who had no problems with following the Horde in their conquest against a world that never harmed his people? Because I see a man who participated in both wars, which means he was also one of the soldiers who destroyed stormwind, killing everyone who couldn't flee? Because I don't see some innocent victim of racism, but a man who helped in building up this hatred of the humans against the Orcs? An Murderer and Soldier of a army of criminals and monsters, who never apologized for his crimes, never faced the consequences for his doing? Eitrigg deserved death and the fact that the humans had the mercy not to commit a genocide against a race that consisted of demonic corrupted Monsters, that doesn't change the fact that they have every right to kill a enemy soldier who fled justice. So, how this makes Tirions act a noble act of justice, a worthy self-sacrifice? All I see is a man who saves a criminal, only because he saved him, a Paladin who puts his life over everyone who has suffered under the crimes of the Orcs. Would you call a police-officer who helps a murderer escape, just because he likes him a hero?

[Gnarilex]

So...why are they stronger?

Different kind of necromancy I guess contained in the Book of Damnation. If they weren't stronger than your run of the mill WotLK Acherus DK, we wouldn't need to recreate them again.

[Ethenil]

Is Darion being the fourth horseman confirmed?